California hopes to close large deficit by cutting taxes for large corporations

[Sbane]

This is all really just "whistling around the graveyard", regardless of what you think of the plan.

Without huge fundamental changes to California's spending and taxing ways, the state is insolvent and will be insolvent in the future.  This year's stimulus bailout will probably get it through 2009, but I wouldn't be planning on similar such assistance in the future.

In all honesty, I would advise anyone who's presently there to get the hell out, because that is one state where I would not want to be when TSHTF.

So what would you do O great one? Repeal prop 13 immediately? Probably way too late for that.

[Sbane]

This is all really just "whistling around the graveyard", regardless of what you think of the plan.

Without huge fundamental changes to California's spending and taxing ways, the state is insolvent and will be insolvent in the future.  This year's stimulus bailout will probably get it through 2009, but I wouldn't be planning on similar such assistance in the future.

In all honesty, I would advise anyone who's presently there to get the hell out, because that is one state where I would not want to be when TSHTF.

So what would you do O great one? Repeal prop 13 immediately? Probably way too late for that.

Repeal Prop 13.  Start slicing and dicing through your massive public employment sector by cutting jobs, salaries, benefits or all of the above (that creation of California during the 1960s nearly bankrupted the state during mere 'recessions').  Cut the various "free" programs (welfare, health care, etc.) that California provides.  Although the business tax cuts proposed here are complete crap, taxes must be dealt with a way that encourages the middle class and businesses to return (I don't know the code that well, but I do know it - if I ran the state, I'd come up with ideas).  Although I won't address it now, California's infrastructure and energy system is a joke - there's definitely something to be tackled there.

This is for starters...

And lastly, it's time to start deporting the illegals.  They are a menace to the state's public assistance network (esp. education) and will likely be one heck of a civil unrest problem in the upcoming years, while adding little of value to the society at large.

Yes, I know.  It's tough.  And tougher than I've ever been in the past with regards to illegals, not to mention the other stuff.  But one of these days, in general, we're going to have to face reexamination of government and what it can and cannot provide (not to mention what it should).  We're trying to punt the question right now. 

I just would prefer not to see us have to answer these questions facing people outside unemployed, starving, angry, and everything that goes with that.

Yes, I know I'm starting to sound like a bit of a kook or something, maybe.  So be it.  The signs are far too clear.

Well I am glad you think prop 13 should be repealed as many of your ideology are too set in their way to admit what a disaster it is. I agree with you that cuts need to be made but taxes need to be raised too, preferably on the insanely rich. And no they won't leave California just because of that, its just way too nice here and they don't choose where they live based on tax rates. And if we have tax cuts it should be for the middle class and small businesses, although I doubt we can afford any. As for illegals, I would remind you that they do a lot of menial labor in California. If those jobs don't exist they will leave, but as long as the jobs are there they will stay. And their kids have just as much a right to an education as anybody else. I wish they were all legal and would pay income and payroll taxes, but honestly it wouldn't add up to much. They already do pay sales taxes so its not fair to say they don't pay anything. Also why would they cause civil unrest? They would just move on to somewhere with jobs, in fact many employed in the construction sector already have. California has many problems but I don't see illegals as being one of them, because somebody needs to do our sh**t work right?

[Sbane]

This is all really just "whistling around the graveyard", regardless of what you think of the plan.

Without huge fundamental changes to California's spending and taxing ways, the state is insolvent and will be insolvent in the future.  This year's stimulus bailout will probably get it through 2009, but I wouldn't be planning on similar such assistance in the future.

In all honesty, I would advise anyone who's presently there to get the hell out, because that is one state where I would not want to be when TSHTF.

So what would you do O great one? Repeal prop 13 immediately? Probably way too late for that.

Repeal Prop 13.  Start slicing and dicing through your massive public employment sector by cutting jobs, salaries, benefits or all of the above (that creation of California during the 1960s nearly bankrupted the state during mere 'recessions').  Cut the various "free" programs (welfare, health care, etc.) that California provides.  Although the business tax cuts proposed here are complete crap, taxes must be dealt with a way that encourages the middle class and businesses to return (I don't know the code that well, but I do know it - if I ran the state, I'd come up with ideas).  Although I won't address it now, California's infrastructure and energy system is a joke - there's definitely something to be tackled there.

This is for starters...

And lastly, it's time to start deporting the illegals.  They are a menace to the state's public assistance network (esp. education) and will likely be one heck of a civil unrest problem in the upcoming years, while adding little of value to the society at large.

Yes, I know.  It's tough.  And tougher than I've ever been in the past with regards to illegals, not to mention the other stuff.  But one of these days, in general, we're going to have to face reexamination of government and what it can and cannot provide (not to mention what it should).  We're trying to punt the question right now. 

I just would prefer not to see us have to answer these questions facing people outside unemployed, starving, angry, and everything that goes with that.

Yes, I know I'm starting to sound like a bit of a kook or something, maybe.  So be it.  The signs are far too clear.

Well I am glad you think prop 13 should be repealed as many of your ideology are too set in their way to admit what a disaster it is. I agree with you that cuts need to be made but taxes need to be raised too, preferably on the insanely rich. And no they won't leave California just because of that, its just way too nice here and they don't choose where they live based on tax rates. And if we have tax cuts it should be for the middle class and small businesses, although I doubt we can afford any. As for illegals, I would remind you that they do a lot of menial labor in California. If those jobs don't exist they will leave, but as long as the jobs are there they will stay. And their kids have just as much a right to an education as anybody else. I wish they were all legal and would pay income and payroll taxes, but honestly it wouldn't add up to much. They already do pay sales taxes so its not fair to say they don't pay anything. Also why would they cause civil unrest? They would just move on to somewhere with jobs, in fact many employed in the construction sector already have. California has many problems but I don't see illegals as being one of them, because somebody needs to do our sh**t work right?

If what Sam says is anything close to right, we could see a re-institution of the draft just to enforce martial law at home. Basically it'll be the end of this country as we know it.

Huh? That didn't even occur during the great depression..why would we suddenly need that now?

[Sbane]

Huh? That didn't even occur during the great depression..why would we suddenly need that now?

Well it did on a smaller scale, if you look at the Bonus army disaster. But it's true that Americans were awfully quiescent during the Depression-- and maybe we'll be again. There was a good deal of ethnic diversity back then as well, and Californians have been living with each other for a long time-- even the illegals.

Anyway, I'm not predicting that we'll need that, but it seems like Sam is. Especially if he thinks it'd be easier to deport millions of illegals than allow them to stay. The former action itself would practically require a domestic military deployment.

I don't see why illegals would cause problems for no reason. They came to California to work and if there isn't any work, they will leave. It's those people who think society owes them something who are more dangerous.