Coburn/Barbour versus Obama/Biden

[Brittain33]

He's actually very mild mannered and I don't think you can argue that he's that much of a nutcase if he worked with Obama on some issues. This is something Obama has no problem admitting to either.

He's a "straight talker" which means he has a record of saying outrageous things that wear very badly. Think of what people claimed made Joe Biden unelectable, and then shackle them to what everyone would agree is a set of policy positions at one extreme of our spectrum. It's hard to get elected if you can get characterized as not a serious candidate.

[Keystone Phil]

He's actually very mild mannered and I don't think you can argue that he's that much of a nutcase if he worked with Obama on some issues. This is something Obama has no problem admitting to either.

He's a "straight talker" which means he has a record of saying outrageous things that wear very badly. Think of what people claimed made Joe Biden unelectable, and then shackle them to what everyone would agree is a set of policy positions at one extreme of our spectrum. It's hard to get elected if you can get characterized as not a serious candidate.

Even if they are "extreme" by "our" standards, I don't see those positions resulting in losses in KY, WV, AR, GA, SC and the Dakotas.

This guy would motivate religious southerns/Evangelicals around the country more so than Bush did. To have him starting off with only 100 or so electoral votes is more fantasy than reality.

That being said, yes, I think he'd lose pretty badly unless Obama was sitting on Bush type approval ratings.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

This guy would motivate religious southerns/Evangelicals around the country more so than Bush did.

Doubtful.  Evangelicals are not a monolith, and this isn't the 1980's anymore.  There is a growing trend of evangelicals who are just as passionate about Christ but not as supportive of the ideology of social hypocrisy.  Bush in many ways was the "best of both worlds" - a compassionate conservative who was able to largely unite people of all evangelical stripes.  Mike Huckabee might actually have a shot at repeating this feat, but Coburn would divide the evangelical community.

[Keystone Phil]

This guy would motivate religious southerns/Evangelicals around the country more so than Bush did.

Doubtful.  Evangelicals are not a monolith, and this isn't the 1980's anymore.  There is a growing trend of evangelicals who are just as passionate about Christ but not as supportive of the ideology of social hypocrisy.  Bush in many ways was the "best of both worlds" - a compassionate conservative who was able to largely unite people of all evangelical stripes.  Mike Huckabee might actually have a shot at repeating this feat, but Coburn would divide the evangelical community.

How is Coburn a "social hypocrite?"

And contrary to popular belief, Coburn is actually mild mannered. Ask the President. Stop labeling everyone you don't like as a foaming at the mouth nutcase, please.

[Landslide Lyndon]

This guy would motivate religious southerns/Evangelicals around the country more so than Bush did.

Doubtful.  Evangelicals are not a monolith, and this isn't the 1980's anymore.  There is a growing trend of evangelicals who are just as passionate about Christ but not as supportive of the ideology of social hypocrisy.  Bush in many ways was the "best of both worlds" - a compassionate conservative who was able to largely unite people of all evangelical stripes.  Mike Huckabee might actually have a shot at repeating this feat, but Coburn would divide the evangelical community.

How is Coburn a "social hypocrite?"

And contrary to popular belief, Coburn is actually mild mannered. Ask the President. Stop labeling everyone you don't like as a foaming at the mouth nutcase, please.

Yeah. A very mild mannered fellow, who just happens to want to impose the death penalty to doctors who perform abortions.
And of course let's not forget his claim that one of the biggest problems in America today is the rampant lesbianism which takes place at school toilets. Real music to the ears of suburban soccer moms. 

[Franzl]

This guy would motivate religious southerns/Evangelicals around the country more so than Bush did.

Doubtful.  Evangelicals are not a monolith, and this isn't the 1980's anymore.  There is a growing trend of evangelicals who are just as passionate about Christ but not as supportive of the ideology of social hypocrisy.  Bush in many ways was the "best of both worlds" - a compassionate conservative who was able to largely unite people of all evangelical stripes.  Mike Huckabee might actually have a shot at repeating this feat, but Coburn would divide the evangelical community.

How is Coburn a "social hypocrite?"

And contrary to popular belief, Coburn is actually mild mannered. Ask the President. Stop labeling everyone you don't like as a foaming at the mouth nutcase, please.

Yeah. A very mild mannered fellow, who just happens to want to impose the death penalty to doctors who perform abortions.
And of course let's not forget his claim that one of the biggest problems in America today is the rampant lesbianism which takes place at school toilets. Real music to the ears of suburban soccer moms. 

you mean it isn't???

[Keystone Phil]

This guy would motivate religious southerns/Evangelicals around the country more so than Bush did.

Doubtful.  Evangelicals are not a monolith, and this isn't the 1980's anymore.  There is a growing trend of evangelicals who are just as passionate about Christ but not as supportive of the ideology of social hypocrisy.  Bush in many ways was the "best of both worlds" - a compassionate conservative who was able to largely unite people of all evangelical stripes.  Mike Huckabee might actually have a shot at repeating this feat, but Coburn would divide the evangelical community.

How is Coburn a "social hypocrite?"

And contrary to popular belief, Coburn is actually mild mannered. Ask the President. Stop labeling everyone you don't like as a foaming at the mouth nutcase, please.

Yeah. A very mild mannered fellow, who just happens to want to impose the death penalty to doctors who perform abortions.
And of course let's not forget his claim that one of the biggest problems in America today is the rampant lesbianism which takes place at school toilets. Real music to the ears of suburban soccer moms. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Bush would support the death penalty for doctors who perform abortions. It's a position that would hurt him but it would likely get buried. He'd be labeled as "strongly Pro Life." Like I said, he'd lose but he's really not a loose cannon. You found two statements/positions that make him seem "nutty." Two statements/positions that really wouldn't be a focus. Even if they were a focus, I don't see how that leads to losses in AK, TN, KY, WV, etc.

[pbrower2a]

Obama 459-79. Eisenhower landslide as people vote for the familiar. Coburn is too right-wing even for Texas, best described politically as Kansas grafted onto Florida. Coburn would win Kansas by 3 percentage points and lose Florida by 10... and lose Texas by 8 percentage points. (Texas, politically, is Kansas grafted onto Florida).

[RIP Robert H Bork]

This guy would motivate religious southerns/Evangelicals around the country more so than Bush did.

Doubtful.  Evangelicals are not a monolith, and this isn't the 1980's anymore.  There is a growing trend of evangelicals who are just as passionate about Christ but not as supportive of the ideology of social hypocrisy conservatism.  Bush in many ways was the "best of both worlds" - a compassionate conservative who was able to largely unite people of all evangelical stripes.  Mike Huckabee might actually have a shot at repeating this feat, but Coburn would divide the evangelical community.

[Rob]

Coburn is too right-wing even for Texas, best described politically as Kansas grafted onto Florida.

Oklahoma = Kansas + (Mississippi - Delta)

[Brittain33]

I think South Carolina would diverge from MS/AL/LA/OK and vote more like NC/GA. Too many transplants, and also Coburn's style isn't of the same class of conservatism that appeals in all parts of the state.

[Barack Hussian YO MAMA!!!!]

Coburn would be lucky to get 40% of the popular vote.

Haha, even TN, WV and KY go for Obama...even though they'd probably adore Coburn on a lot of issues a lot more than they liked McCain.

You guys are too good.

Coburn is widely regarded as a wackjob while McCain is actually seen as a serious politician by most of the American electorate.

"Widely regarded." Oh boy. You mean "widely regarded by certain politicos" because really nobody knows a thing about Tom Coburn outside of our little world. He's actually very mild mannered and I don't think you can argue that he's that much of a nutcase if he worked with Obama on some issues. This is something Obama has no problem admitting to either.

he's pretty mild mannered for a Guy who thinks this

"Lesbianism is so rampant in some of the schools in southeast Oklahoma that they'll only let one girl go to the bathroom. Now think about it. Think about that issue. How is it that that's happened to us? "

if people are going to vote for a ticket with  Haley Barbour on it they would have to explain to people why it is they are pro lung cancer.

[Coburn In 2012]

Some of you keep calling Coburn a bigot and a racist.  Can someone explain to me what the Senator has ever said or done that is racist or bigoted?

[Lief 🗽]

"The gay community has infiltrated the very centers of power in every area across this country, and they wield extreme power... That agenda is the greatest threat to our freedom that we face today. Why do you think we see the rationalization for abortion and multiple sexual partners? That's a gay agenda."

"Lesbianism is so rampant in some of the schools in Southeast Oklahoma that they'll only let one girl go to the bathroom. Now think about it."

"[Showing Shindler's List on television is] irresponsible sexual behavior...I cringe when I realize that there were children all across this nation watching this program."

"I favor the death penalty for abortionists and other people who take life."

[Holmes]

"The gay community has infiltrated the very centers of power in every area across this country, and they wield extreme power... That agenda is the greatest threat to our freedom that we face today. Why do you think we see the rationalization for abortion and multiple sexual partners? That's a gay agenda."

"Lesbianism is so rampant in some of the schools in Southeast Oklahoma that they'll only let one girl go to the bathroom. Now think about it."

"[Showing Shindler's List on television is] irresponsible sexual behavior...I cringe when I realize that there were children all across this nation watching this program."

"I favor the death penalty for abortionists and other people who take life."

Coburn in 2012 agrees with all these so they're bad examples.

[Lunar]

"Lesbianism is so rampant in some of the schools in Southeast Oklahoma that they'll only let one girl go to the bathroom. Now think about it."

OKAY, WILL DO

[Lief 🗽]

"The gay community has infiltrated the very centers of power in every area across this country, and they wield extreme power... That agenda is the greatest threat to our freedom that we face today. Why do you think we see the rationalization for abortion and multiple sexual partners? That's a gay agenda."

"Lesbianism is so rampant in some of the schools in Southeast Oklahoma that they'll only let one girl go to the bathroom. Now think about it."

"[Showing Shindler's List on television is] irresponsible sexual behavior...I cringe when I realize that there were children all across this nation watching this program."

"I favor the death penalty for abortionists and other people who take life."

Coburn in 2012 agrees with all these so they're bad examples.

Well then he's also a bigot.

[Franzl]

"The gay community has infiltrated the very centers of power in every area across this country, and they wield extreme power... That agenda is the greatest threat to our freedom that we face today. Why do you think we see the rationalization for abortion and multiple sexual partners? That's a gay agenda."

"Lesbianism is so rampant in some of the schools in Southeast Oklahoma that they'll only let one girl go to the bathroom. Now think about it."

"[Showing Shindler's List on television is] irresponsible sexual behavior...I cringe when I realize that there were children all across this nation watching this program."

"I favor the death penalty for abortionists and other people who take life."

Coburn in 2012 agrees with all these so they're bad examples.

Well then he's also a bigot.

absolutely correct, yes.

[pbrower2a]

"The gay community has infiltrated the very centers of power in every area across this country, and they wield extreme power... That agenda is the greatest threat to our freedom that we face today. Why do you think we see the rationalization for abortion and multiple sexual partners? That's a gay agenda."

"Lesbianism is so rampant in some of the schools in Southeast Oklahoma that they'll only let one girl go to the bathroom. Now think about it."

"[Showing Shindler's List on television is] irresponsible sexual behavior...I cringe when I realize that there were children all across this nation watching this program."

"I favor the death penalty for abortionists and other people who take life."

Enough said. Irrational and bigoted.

[Coburn In 2012]

What would be helpful here is to deal with facts and stop getting so caught up in emotionalism.

Has anyone verified or discredited Coburn's claims about homosexuality?  Cite some studies refuting him, please.

As to the death penality for people who kill babies...how is that wrong?  If I killed a two month old, I would hope I'd get the chair.  Some cases of abortion involve very late term children who could easily live outside the womb.  How is this not murder?  And how is it so different from killing the guy who murdered a just birthed child.  (Of course, that is exactly what partial birth abortion is...so I realize democrats aren't going to agree.  But they are being unfair to attack Coburn for simply being a consistent defender of life and the rule of law.  Remember he says he would support it IF abortion were illegal.)

Finally, on the Schilder's list thing -- I know he said that and it was not well thought through.  In fact, I think you failed to mention that Coburn apologized for his remark and said he re-thought about it and felt televising the movie could be good if older children watched with adults.  And he was concerned not just about nudity but also about young children being scarred by the horror on the screen.  The end of the matter is that he backtracked and changed.

[bhouston79]

Obama wins easily.

Coburn's politics are slightly to the right of Pat Buchanan for crying out loud.  Assuming that Obama is even moderately popular, this matchup would result in the biggest landslide for Democrats since at least 1964 and maybe even going all the way back to 1936.

[Daniel Plainview]

Here's how I'd think it would play out. And I'm trying to be somewhat, nthoight not especially optimistic with Coburn here.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

I've reconsidered my map and I was wrong.

You see, the problem with the GOP is that we haven't "stood up for our principles" enough.  We aren't listening to our "base".   Coburn would "exicte our base" to extreme degrees and cause them all to show up.  Apparently the millions of people who don't vote are all disaffected conservatives who are tired of Republicans catering to evil moderates.

The only problem with Haley Barbour is that he is a compromiser and a librul.  As RNC Chairman he allowed moderates to represent the party in elections under the stupid excuse of "winning elections" and librul mantra of "public service".  The only solution is to have Jim Inholfe move to another state and be Coburn's running mate, which would net 100% of the electorate and produce this map:

</sarcasm>

[Daniel Plainview]

I've reconsidered my map and I was wrong.

You see, the problem with the GOP is that we haven't "stood up for our principles" enough.  We aren't listening to our "base".   Coburn would "exicte our base" to extreme degrees and cause them all to show up.  Apparently the millions of people who don't vote are all disaffected conservatives who are tired of Republicans catering to evil moderates.

The only problem with Haley Barbour is that he is a compromiser and a librul.  As RNC Chairman he allowed moderates to represent the party in elections under the stupid excuse of "winning elections" and librul mantra of "public service".  The only solution is to have Jim Inholfe move to another state and be Coburn's running mate, which would net 100% of the electorate and produce this map:

</sarcasm>

That's pretty funny, especially since you're a Republican and all. I am too, but I'm disavowing my affiliation as soon as I can go to the county clerk's office.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

That's pretty funny, especially since you're a Republican and all. I am too, but I'm disavowing my affiliation as soon as I can go to the county clerk's office.

Why?