Specter's Stimulus support may get Toomey back into Senate race...

[Reluctant Republican]

I’ll be voting for Toomey in the primary. Should Specter make it to the general I’ll vote Democratic. I can’t stand Specter for a variety of reasons, and also bringing his age and health into it I fear he’s become a bit out of touch. I’m not opposed to an 80 year old serving in the senate, but if fresher blood becomes available then I‘m more likely to support it.

Anyway, if Toomey does run though I'd think he'd have the edge. But that's just a gut feeling, and the few polls I saw did have Specter ahead. It should be interesting to see how he looks now given his stimulus support

[Keystone Phil]

.

Anyway, if Toomey does run though I'd think he'd have the edge. But that's just a gut feeling, and the few polls I saw did have Specter ahead. It should be interesting to see how he looks now given his stimulus support

He'd definitely have the edge but what's this about polls you've seen showing Specter ahead? They haven't conducted any polls related to this race yet as far as I know though there might have been one I vaguely remember.

Oh, and for those that are wondering, Reluctant Republican is actually a moderate (as far as I know).

[Reluctant Republican]

In looking at the wiki page for the 2010 election, there was one that Research 2000  conducted for Kos in December. I don't know how accurate they are, but they had it Specter 43-28. We'll have to see a few more though, I guess.

I’m pretty moderate, I like Obama so far. But I don’t really have a coherent ideology.  Generally though I’m socially liberal, foreign policy dove, and a fiscal conservative.

[Keystone Phil]

  Generally though I’m socially liberal, foreign policy dove, and a fiscal conservative.

And you support Toomey.

Take note of this, people.

[Reluctant Republican]

  Generally though I’m socially liberal, foreign policy dove, and a fiscal conservative.

And you support Toomey.

Take note of this, people.

With all due respect Phil I doubt I’m the normal Republican voter. I’d back someone like Brown in California, and I still don’t know who I’ll vote for in our governor race. It just so happens that at the moment I’m most concerned with a low tax, balanced budget message, and feel that Toomey is the candidate that best offers that in this particular race. But who knows, maybe more GOP voters are like me then I think, I hope so. Personally though, Specter just turns my stomach. I agree completely with you that there’s something about that man that screams entitlement. Which is one of the reasons I’ll be voting against him no matter who his opponent is. It's the same reason I voted against Casey.

[Keystone Phil]

  Generally though I’m socially liberal, foreign policy dove, and a fiscal conservative.

And you support Toomey.

Take note of this, people.

With all due respect Phil I doubt I’m the normal Republican voter. I’d back someone like Brown in California, and I still don’t know who I’ll vote for in our governor race. It just so happens that at the moment I’m most concerned with a low tax, balanced budget message, and feel that Toomey is the candidate that best offers that in this particular race. But who knows, maybe more GOP voters are like me then I think, I hope so. Personally though, Specter just turns my stomach. I agree completely with you that there’s something about that man that screams entitlement. Which is one of the reasons I’ll be voting against him no matter who his opponent is. It's the same reason I voted against Casey.

I know you're not a typical Republican voter. That's my point. 

More Republicans want to hear see a fiscally motivated campaign and that's Toomey's bread and butter.

Plus, another six years gone and Specter's isn't an younger or more humble. It grates on the nerves more and more each time he's up.

[TeePee4Prez]

  Generally though I’m socially liberal, foreign policy dove, and a fiscal conservative.

And you support Toomey.

Take note of this, people.

Do you want to boot him from the party like you do Specter?  There is a good reason you guys lost and it's not cause you weren't conservative enough.  Man said he was a fiscal conservative.  Supporting Toomey would make sense for him.

I've said this before, but I do think the 83% Obama won within the city limits of Philadelphia could have been a lot smaller.  Despite crooked, corrupt, incompetent, and sometimes racist machine Democrats here, the GOP has but a token base in this area and are losing the suburbs rapidly.  Keep up with the religious right pandering and giveaways to the wealthy.  Look at where it's got the party.

[Keystone Phil]

  Generally though I’m socially liberal, foreign policy dove, and a fiscal conservative.

And you support Toomey.

Take note of this, people.

Do you want to boot him from the party like you do Specter?  There is a good reason you guys lost and it's not cause you weren't conservative enough.  Man said he was a fiscal conservative.  Supporting Toomey would make sense for him.

I'm not saying we lost because we weren't conservative enough. I know it makes sense that he'd support Toomey because he's a fiscal conservative but a lot of Specter supporters would claim to be that as well but cringe at Toomey. It makes no sense.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The former isn't a reason why we lost in 2006 or 2008 and the latter is a silly talking point.

[Nixon in '80]

He certainly thinks he's an excellent political force, but that's been obvious for a long time.

He certainly is at least within the conservative Republican movement if he has this seasoned politician constantly looking over his shoulder. He certainly is when he barely loses to a man that had a popular Republican President (at the time) and a beloved Republican Senator working the state for him.

Lol "beloved"...

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I've always liked Specter, but even this irks me. I guess if Toomey ran and beat Specter but lost the general, it wouldn't make much difference than having a Republican in Specter or a Democrat in someone else if Specter can be swayed that easily anyway. This is one dog of a bill, and I am strongly opposed to it. Specter jumping sides to make sure it passes may have killed the support I have for it. I don't want to ostracize moderates from the party, but if they are helping the Democrats push their agenda through then what are we to do? For social issues, I like moderates, but supporting the stimulus does not represent fiscal conservatism.

[Keystone Phil]

He certainly thinks he's an excellent political force, but that's been obvious for a long time.

He certainly is at least within the conservative Republican movement if he has this seasoned politician constantly looking over his shoulder. He certainly is when he barely loses to a man that had a popular Republican President (at the time) and a beloved Republican Senator working the state for him.

Lol "beloved"...

Do you bother to read anything or do you want to be a bomb thrower as well?

Yes, among the people I was talking about (Republican primary voters in 2004), Rick Santorum was beloved.

[Lunar]

I've always liked Specter, but even this irks me. I guess if Toomey ran and beat Specter but lost the general, it wouldn't make much difference than having a Republican in Specter or a Democrat in someone else if Specter can be swayed that easily anyway. This is one dog of a bill, and I am strongly opposed to it. Specter jumping sides to make sure it passes may have killed the support I have for it. I don't want to ostracize moderates from the party, but if they are helping the Democrats push their agenda through then what are we to do? For social issues, I like moderates, but supporting the stimulus does not represent fiscal conservatism.

Well, I suppose it's a mixed bag.  He'll always vote pro-Union, and there's a chance that he'd be beaten by a pro-life Democrat, but Specter is attempting to use his newfound political muscle to get more conservative judges (like I said, the old Bush appointees to be renominated) and Barack is trying to figure out how to appoint judges without having the votes fall on partisan lines.

[Nixon in '80]

He certainly thinks he's an excellent political force, but that's been obvious for a long time.

He certainly is at least within the conservative Republican movement if he has this seasoned politician constantly looking over his shoulder. He certainly is when he barely loses to a man that had a popular Republican President (at the time) and a beloved Republican Senator working the state for him.

Lol "beloved"...

Do you bother to read anything or do you want to be a bomb thrower as well?

Yes, among the people I was talking about (Republican primary voters in 2004), Rick Santorum was beloved.

I actually didn't read the earlier post of somebody making fun of it until after I had posted this, so for the redundancy, I apologize. Regardless, it wasn't really about the characterization as much as the word... "beloved" makes me think of either romance, or Putin...

Anyway, I'll agree that Santorum was, and remains, quite popular among GOP primary voters in PA, and his endorsement was key to Specter defeating Toomey... honestly, I just thought the word was funny.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I've always liked Specter, but even this irks me. I guess if Toomey ran and beat Specter but lost the general, it wouldn't make much difference than having a Republican in Specter or a Democrat in someone else if Specter can be swayed that easily anyway. This is one dog of a bill, and I am strongly opposed to it. Specter jumping sides to make sure it passes may have killed the support I have for it. I don't want to ostracize moderates from the party, but if they are helping the Democrats push their agenda through then what are we to do? For social issues, I like moderates, but supporting the stimulus does not represent fiscal conservatism.

Well, I suppose it's a mixed bag.  He'll always vote pro-Union, and there's a chance that he'd be beaten by a pro-life Democrat, but Specter is attempting to use his newfound political muscle to get more conservative judges (like I said, the old Bush appointees to be renominated) and Barack is trying to figure out how to appoint judges without having the votes fall on partisan lines.

This would be my only problem with a Dem taking his seat. I think Toomey could win if the stimulus fails and 2010 is a big GOP year, but if things remains as they are or we have a slight improvement in the economy, then there's no way Toomey wins the race. Specter could still lose the primary if the Republicans are still mad about it.

[TeePee4Prez]

He certainly thinks he's an excellent political force, but that's been obvious for a long time.

He certainly is at least within the conservative Republican movement if he has this seasoned politician constantly looking over his shoulder. He certainly is when he barely loses to a man that had a popular Republican President (at the time) and a beloved Republican Senator working the state for him.

Lol "beloved"...

Do you bother to read anything or do you want to be a bomb thrower as well?

Yes, among the people I was talking about (Republican primary voters in 2004), Rick Santorum was beloved.

I actually didn't read the earlier post of somebody making fun of it until after I had posted this, so for the redundancy, I apologize. Regardless, it wasn't really about the characterization as much as the word... "beloved" makes me think of either romance, or Putin...

Anyway, I'll agree that Santorum was, and remains, quite popular among GOP primary voters in PA, and his endorsement was key to Specter defeating Toomey... honestly, I just thought the word was funny.

Santorum definitely helped Specter in some areas, but Specter helped himself with Southeast PA moderates whom a lot converted to the Democratic party. 

[Keystone Phil]

Santorum definitely helped Specter in some areas, but Specter helped himself with Southeast PA moderates whom a lot converted to the Democratic party. 

Those people were always with Specter. He didn't help himself.

If it wasn't for Santorum, Specter would be a former Senator right now. I have absolutely no doubt about that. If Santorum didn't get involved, yes, I think Specter would have lost even with Bush's help. Santorum was criss crossing the state for Specter. He was, unfortunately, very active in that campaign. If Santorum actually endorsed Toomey, it wouldn't have been close. If Bush had stayed out, Specter would have been absolutely demolished. Take a look at the county breakdowns. Look where Specter won in the T. These were the people that were always Specter haters but Bush and Santorum pressured them into seeing it their way.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Phil is right that Santorum greatly helped Specter and likely pushed him over the top.  That's almost not even up for debate.

Senator Hoeffel would be casting the 60th vote for a version of the stimulus package much closer to the atrocious House version if it weren't for Rick Santorum putting country before ideology.

[Eraserhead]

Phil is right that Santorum greatly helped Specter and likely pushed him over the top.  That's almost not even up for debate.

Senator Hoeffel would be casting the 60th vote for a version of the stimulus package much closer to the atrocious House version if it weren't for Rick Santorum putting country before ideology.

I think you mean "party" before ideology.

[Keystone Phil]

Senator Hoeffel would be casting the 60th vote for a version of the stimulus package much closer to the atrocious House version if it weren't for Rick Santorum putting country before ideology.

Again, I'm glad you can say this with certainty. After all, in Don's World, everything he says is correct.

And, let's get real - Santorum wasn't putting "country before ideology." The man was looking for support to become leader or whip. He thought his chances were better with Specter in there pushing for him. I don't know why Rick would think that though. I'm sure he thought differently after he saw what backstabbing Specter did to Bush. You know...after he said he'd be a reason why Bush would carry PA. LOL @ the people that actually fell for it (including Bush's brilliant campaign team). No doubt Don was sipping that Kool Aid throughout the campaign.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Where can I see a PA county map with results from the 2004 primary? I'm interested to see where each got their support from.

[Keystone Phil]

Where can I see a PA county map with results from the 2004 primary? I'm interested to see where each got their support from.

There used to be a map around here...

Basically, Specter won the SE counties (though not as convincingly as one would think) and in the usually Specter hating counties in the central part of the state (the "T"). Toomey kicked ass in the Lehigh Valley (where he is from) and out west.

[Lunar]

Senator Hoeffel would be casting the 60th vote for a version of the stimulus package much closer to the atrocious House version if it weren't for Rick Santorum putting country before ideology.

Again, I'm glad you can say this with certainty. After all, in Don's World, everything he says is correct.

And, let's get real - Santorum wasn't putting "country before ideology." The man was looking for support to become leader or whip. He thought his chances were better with Specter in there pushing for him. I don't know why Rick would think that though. I'm sure he thought differently after he saw what backstabbing Specter did to Bush. You know...after he said he'd be a reason why Bush would carry PA. LOL @ the people that actually fell for it (including Bush's brilliant campaign team). No doubt Don was sipping that Kool Aid throughout the campaign.

It's also a party rule pretty much to always support their party's incumbents while in Congress.   Thus Obama was campaigning for Lieberman during his primary, but when Lamont won, Obama campaigned for Lamont.

To endorse the challenger to the senior senator from your own state would have been scandalous

[Keystone Phil]

Senator Hoeffel would be casting the 60th vote for a version of the stimulus package much closer to the atrocious House version if it weren't for Rick Santorum putting country before ideology.

Again, I'm glad you can say this with certainty. After all, in Don's World, everything he says is correct.

And, let's get real - Santorum wasn't putting "country before ideology." The man was looking for support to become leader or whip. He thought his chances were better with Specter in there pushing for him. I don't know why Rick would think that though. I'm sure he thought differently after he saw what backstabbing Specter did to Bush. You know...after he said he'd be a reason why Bush would carry PA. LOL @ the people that actually fell for it (including Bush's brilliant campaign team). No doubt Don was sipping that Kool Aid throughout the campaign.

It's also a party rule pretty much to always support their party's incumbents while in Congress.   Thus Obama was campaigning for Lieberman during his primary, but when Lamont won, Obama campaigned for Lamont.

To endorse the challenger to the senior senator from your own state would have been scandalous

I don't think many of us actually expecting Santorum to endorse Toomey. However, we were rightfully disappointed to see him get involved. He could have sat it out (as did some members of the Congressional delegration) or simply released a statement backing Specter.

He pissed off quite a few conservatives and some still hold a serious grudge about that.

[Nixon in '80]

Senator Hoeffel would be casting the 60th vote for a version of the stimulus package much closer to the atrocious House version if it weren't for Rick Santorum putting country before ideology.

Again, I'm glad you can say this with certainty. After all, in Don's World, everything he says is correct.

And, let's get real - Santorum wasn't putting "country before ideology." The man was looking for support to become leader or whip. He thought his chances were better with Specter in there pushing for him. I don't know why Rick would think that though. I'm sure he thought differently after he saw what backstabbing Specter did to Bush. You know...after he said he'd be a reason why Bush would carry PA. LOL @ the people that actually fell for it (including Bush's brilliant campaign team). No doubt Don was sipping that Kool Aid throughout the campaign.

It's also a party rule pretty much to always support their party's incumbents while in Congress.   Thus Obama was campaigning for Lieberman during his primary, but when Lamont won, Obama campaigned for Lamont.

To endorse the challenger to the senior senator from your own state would have been scandalous

I don't think many of us actually expecting Santorum to endorse Toomey. However, we were rightfully disappointed to see him get involved. He could have sat it out (as did some members of the Congressional delegration) or simply released a statement backing Specter.

He pissed off quite a few conservatives and some still hold a serious grudge about that.

I'm sure you've made statements about this a number of times, but I've never asked: Do you think Toomey would have won in the general?

[Lunar]

You can't guess?

In addition, he wouldn't have all that Toomey gear if he thought he was backing a loser.