A real improvement or a random noise? (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 29, 2024, 01:15:43 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Election Archive
  Election Archive
  2004 U.S. Presidential Election
  A real improvement or a random noise? (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: A real improvement or a random noise?  (Read 3068 times)
The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,660


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

« on: September 24, 2004, 01:12:47 PM »



According to Rasmussen daily sampling, Bush has 47.4% and Kerry 46.5%.
Is it a real improvement for Kerry or a random statistical noise?
I believe that Kerry improved a little bit in the last few days, but the nationwide gap is probably around the 3%.


If its a blip it will stay with the 3 day rolling average for... 3 days.

If on Monday Bush bounces back to +4 (when the Thursday night sample rolls off) we know it was a blip, if not.. then not Smiley

I'll let you know on MOnday.

For what it is worth, a very strong Bush sample rolled OFF today, the last 3 daily samples have all been within about 1.5% of tied - but they have also shown a fairly large blip towards the dems in party ID.

Hard to say what, if anyting, it means.
Logged
The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,660


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2004, 01:57:49 PM »
« Edited: September 25, 2004, 02:00:15 PM by The Vorlon »

A breakout of the Daily Bot track - day by day samples:

Logged
The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,660


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2004, 03:41:54 PM »

Somehow, some way, he is able to figure the one day samples.  No one on this board knows how he figures it out, but I'd bet money his numbers are dead on.

+/- 0.3% actually (Rounding error) but close enough Smiley

Actually even at 1000 interviews per night, the amount of random "noise" is fairly high.

Each individual day will have a MOE of 3.1%, however since each candidate is subject to error, the actual error on the reported lead is 1.414 * 3.1 => +/- 4.4% on the "lead"  In a tracking poll you also have two error inputs, because the random error of the sample dropping off is also a factor.

For example, if pro-Kerry "random error" drops off the 3 day sample, the same day some pro-Bush random error rolls one, you a have two blips operating together.  Sometimes the errors cancel, but sometimes they add.

On average the daily difference in error (between the sample rolling on and off) will be +/- 6.2% 19/20 times.

At the 50% confidence level, this is about +/- 2.1%

Bottom line:

If the 3 day average moves 0.7% there is a 50/50 chance it is just pure random noise.
A 1% shift has a 1/3rd chance of being pure noise.

Once or twice a month, we will get a 1 day shift over 2% that is just nothing but random noise.

If you look at anything in Rasmussen, look at the 7 day average.


Logged
The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,660


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2004, 03:43:44 PM »

Are these day to day numbers all already weighted 39-35- 26?

yes, the single day vaues are weighted to 39/35/26.  I can show you the unweighted values as well, but the bounce around a ton and are not particularly useful.

Rasmussen actually has a rather large "Day of the week" issue.  He weights a ton of it away with his 39/35/26, but in the raw data it is rather a meaningful effect.
Logged
The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,660


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2004, 03:49:30 PM »
« Edited: September 25, 2004, 03:51:03 PM by The Vorlon »



According to Rasmussen daily sampling, Bush has 47.4% and Kerry 46.5%.
Is it a real improvement for Kerry or a random statistical noise?
I believe that Kerry improved a little bit in the last few days, but the nationwide gap is probably around the 3%.


If its a blip it will stay with the 3 day rolling average for... 3 days.

If on Monday Bush bounces back to +4 (when the Thursday night sample rolls off) we know it was a blip, if not.. then not Smiley

I'll let you know on MOnday.

For what it is worth, a very strong Bush sample rolled OFF today, the last 3 daily samples have all been within about 1.5% of tied - but they have also shown a fairly large blip towards the dems in party ID.

Hard to say what, if anyting, it means.

Correct me if I am wrong.
You have to know the absolute numbers of arbitrarry two consecutive dates in order to run this process of "deavaraging"

No Smiley

Rounding error accumulates if you do that.  It 46.7 really 46.66 or 46.74..?
Logged
The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,660


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2004, 05:36:57 PM »

a 1% change between 2 samples with N=7000 has a 61% chance of representing an actual change - a 39% chance of just being "noise"
Logged
The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,660


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2004, 08:05:13 AM »

Are these day to day numbers all already weighted 39-35- 26?

yes, the single day vaues are weighted to 39/35/26.  I can show you the unweighted values as well, but the bounce around a ton and are not particularly useful.

Rasmussen actually has a rather large "Day of the week" issue.  He weights a ton of it away with his 39/35/26, but in the raw data it is rather a meaningful effect.

As you know, I do believe in partisan weighting (but also believes it changes over time).

Right now I see the following:

Democrats          38%

Republicans         37

Others                25

Would appreciate your feedback.

I am crunching data to write a nice post.. wait for it Wink
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.028 seconds with 13 queries.