Separation of Powers Act (Failed)

[minionofmidas]

Separation of Powers Act

1. The following powers shall be the perogative of the Office of the Secretary of External Affairs:

1a. The power to bestow recognition of sovereignty upon any foreign nation.

1b. The power to propose economic sanctions against another sovereign nation, subject to the approval of a quorum of Senators, as well as the President.

1c. The power to propose military action against another sovereign nation, subject to the approval of a quorum of Senators, as well as the other members of the cabinet, of the Vice-President, and of the President.

1d. The power to engage in formal alliances with other sovereign nations, subject to the approval of the President.

2. If the Secretary of External Affairs has not logged in for a period of at least 72 hours, the duties of the office shall devolve upon the President, until the Secretary of External Affairs reassumes his post.


Sponsor: PiT.

[SPC]

Though I'm not in the Senate, I think it would be better if it were amended to give the SoEA veto power over those subjects, rather than giving them direct control.

[Хahar 🤔]

Though I'm not in the Senate, I think it would be better if it were amended to give the SoEA veto power over those subjects, rather than giving them direct control.

Don't you think the executive should be dealing with this to begin with? The Senate has to approve the appintment in the first place.

[SPC]

Though I'm not in the Senate, I think it would be better if it were amended to give the SoEA veto power over those subjects, rather than giving them direct control.

Don't you think the executive should be dealing with this to begin with? The Senate has to approve the appintment in the first place.

I like 1c, and don't like 1a, 1b, and 1d. I think it would be better if the Senate made these but required the approval of both the President and the SoEA.

[Јas]

This draft is not acceptable with the current wording. If we are going to declare this to be a matter purely for the executive branch, then the powers should be vested in the President - exercisable by the SoEA with his consent. This draft would seem to have it pretty much the other way round.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I have no qualms with the bill except Section 1a, why should be person, not elected by the people as well, be able to decide what countires to recognize and which to not.

[Хahar 🤔]

I have no qualms with the bill except Section 1a, why should be person, not elected by the people as well, be able to decide what countires to recognize and which to not.

Well, that ought to be a power of the executive in general.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I have no qualms with the bill except Section 1a, why should be person, not elected by the people as well, be able to decide what countires to recognize and which to not.

Well, that ought to be a power of the executive in general.

I have no problem with the president being able to issue executive orders stating such as the president is elected by the people, but I do not think a non-elected official should have that power

[Хahar 🤔]

I have no qualms with the bill except Section 1a, why should be person, not elected by the people as well, be able to decide what countires to recognize and which to not.

Well, that ought to be a power of the executive in general.

I have no problem with the president being able to issue executive orders stating such as the president is elected by the people, but I do not think a non-elected official should have that power

It's the responsibility of the executive (represented in the President), who can delegate the position to others.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I have no qualms with the bill except Section 1a, why should be person, not elected by the people as well, be able to decide what countires to recognize and which to not.

Well, that ought to be a power of the executive in general.

I have no problem with the president being able to issue executive orders stating such as the president is elected by the people, but I do not think a non-elected official should have that power

It's the responsibility of the executive (represented in the President), who can delegate the position to others.

     How about it be amended to say that the SoEA has these powers with the leave of the President?

[minionofmidas]

I know it's not traditional, but recognition strikes me as in rather better hands with a legislative body than with an executive department, whether within Atlasia or without.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I know it's not traditional, but recognition strikes me as in rather better hands with a legislative body than with an executive department, whether within Atlasia or without.

     While that may be true, the problem with Atlasia is that the Legislative branch is too powerful compared to the Executive branch. As such, it makes sense to try to endow the executive with more power, rather than less.

[Јas]

I know it's not traditional, but recognition strikes me as in rather better hands with a legislative body than with an executive department, whether within Atlasia or without.

     While that may be true, the problem with Atlasia is that the Legislative branch is too powerful compared to the Executive branch. As such, it makes sense to try to endow the executive with more power, rather than less.

The executive branch has recognised countries before, such as re: Kosovo. So, this bill wouldn't endow the executive branch with any more power than it already has.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I know it's not traditional, but recognition strikes me as in rather better hands with a legislative body than with an executive department, whether within Atlasia or without.

     While that may be true, the problem with Atlasia is that the Legislative branch is too powerful compared to the Executive branch. As such, it makes sense to try to endow the executive with more power, rather than less.

The executive branch has recognised countries before, such as re: Kosovo. So, this bill wouldn't endow the executive branch with any more power than it already has.

     Actually, I should have been clearer in saying that I wanted to make foreign relations mostly exclusive to the executive branch. Hence the use of the word perogative.

     However, I suppose it should be changed to say that it is the perogative of the President, or of the SoEA with the President's leave.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I propose an amendment to section 1 so that it reads

1. The following powers shall be the perogative of the President, or with the leave of the President, the Secretary of External Affairs:

[Хahar 🤔]

How about just: "the executive branch"?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I'll be voting against this. The executive actually has rather a lot of power, it's just that it doesn't use it that often. The same is true of the regions.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I'll be voting against this. The executive actually has rather a lot of power, it's just that it doesn't use it that often. The same is true of the regions.

     So in other words the White House is just lazy? Never thought of that.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I'll be voting against this. The executive actually has rather a lot of power, it's just that it doesn't use it that often. The same is true of the regions.

     So in other words the White House is just lazy? Never thought of that.

No, it's more that there's a persistent pattern of institutional inertia that's very hard to break out of. The rot set in quite early.

[minionofmidas]

The vote is on the amendment:

     I propose an amendment to section 1 so that it reads

1. The following powers shall be the perogative of the President, or with the leave of the President, the Secretary of External Affairs:

Abstain.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Aye although given the current SoEA, I oppose all efforts to extend power

[HappyWarrior]

Aye

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Aye

I'll be voting against this. The executive actually has rather a lot of power, it's just that it doesn't use it that often. The same is true of the regions.

     So in other words the White House is just lazy? Never thought of that.

No, it's more that there's a persistent pattern of institutional inertia that's very hard to break out of. The rot set in quite early.

     If you have any suggestions on how to break out of that & allow the executive to utilize its full power, it would be appreciated.

[Јas]

If you have any suggestions on how to break out of that & allow the executive to utilize its full power, it would be appreciated.

That's easy.
Elect a good President.

[Bacon King]

abstain