Horse takes up painting, has works exhibited Bill (Vetoed)

[minionofmidas]

Regional Senate Seats Still Exist Act

F.L. 27-3: Proportional Representation (Class A seats) Act is hereby repealed



Sponsor: Dwtl.


This goes into the Forum Affairs slot. My apologies for not noticing this sooner, and many thanks to Chode for pointing it out.

[DownWithTheLeft]

The bill is introduced on behalf of Fmr. Sen. BrandonH if I didn't already state so. 

This bill is necessary because the statue is completely unnecessary.  We have regional senate seats, and the idea of making them extinct has not come close to passing.  Until it does, there is no reason for this bill.

[Associate Justice PiT]

The bill is introduced on behalf of Fmr. Sen. BrandonH if I didn't already state so. 

This bill is necessary because the statue is completely unnecessary.  We have regional senate seats, and the idea of making them extinct has not come close to passing.  Until it does, there is no reason for this bill.

     As President Moderate said, buying the bullets is easier than buying the gun. It makes sense that the statute would be able to pass, even if the amendment died in the Senate.

[Хahar 🤔]

This goes into the Forum Affairs slot. My apologies for not noticing this sooner, and many thanks to Chode for pointing it out.

I'm always pleased to see a DWDL bill on the floor.

[Torie]

I hereby move to table this bill. Enough already!

[minionofmidas]

I hereby move to table this bill. Enough already!

The vote is on the motion to table. Please vote aye, nay or abstain.


Aye.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Nay, if you wish for further explanation you may contact BrandonH as well

[Torie]

Aye

[Torie]

Nay, if you wish for further explanation you may contact BrandonH as well

Just do it, and do it on the floor DWTL.   The idea is to change minds on the floor. Among other things, that improves the game, and also educates the "youngs" as to how to affect and effect legislation, in the other place. Just a thought.

In fact, we need a lot more give and takes on the floor. Isn't the Senate supposed to be this special place, this gleaming jewel on the Fruited Plain, this Atlasia, this  greatest deliberative body known to man?  Where have all the flowers gone?

[Јas]

Aye

[DownWithTheLeft]

Nay, if you wish for further explanation you may contact BrandonH as well

Just do it, and do it on the floor DWTL.   The idea is to change minds on the floor. Among other things, that improves the game, and also educates the "youngs" as to how to affect and effect legislation, in the other place. Just a thought.

In fact, we need a lot more give and takes on the floor. Isn't the Senate supposed to be this special place, this gleaming jewel on the Fruited Plain, this Atlasia, this  greatest deliberative body known to man?  Where have all the flowers gone?

The only reason I said that is because many senator automatically dismiss bills with my name attached to them

Basically, the reasoning is this.  This statue is meaningless and basically is a ploy to try and convince people to support eliminating regional senate seats.  Proponents cite that it will bring competitive elections and want to use the same formula as before as this bill does.  The fact is while the elections may become a tad more competitive, you are completely losing the aspect of senators having to appeal to a certain region.  For example, a referendum senate election in the Dirty South on regional rights (PiT v. BaconKing) has all the excitement of national elections, except it is a 1 on 1 different type of excitement.  Sure, some elections like yours and AndrewCTs were unchallenged, but that is because you both fit your region well and the forces that be did not want to challenge you.  The fact is if national elections were held, I'm quite sure that you and Andrew would have been elected as well as PiT.  However, Lewis very well may not have and therefore the Midwest and its small population would be lacking representation.  You also would miss out on the madness in the Mideast.  This is now two elections in a row (last time in the Southeast) that there has been an insane election providing a ton of excitement.  Why would we want to end these spectacles?

[Torie]

Thanks DWTL. But this bill dumps the 5 national Senate seats. The 5 regional seats still stand. Do you want all seats to be regional?  Since as I noted in another post, the Senate effectively seems to have supreme power, don't you want at least some of them, to be subject to a national vote?

[DownWithTheLeft]

Thanks DWTL. But this bill dumps the 5 national Senate seats. The 5 regional seats still stand. Do you want all seats to be regional?  Since as I noted in another post, the Senate effectively seems to have supreme power, don't you want at least some of them, to be subject to a national vote?

If I'm reading it correct (which I believe I am) it does not.

Class A seats are the regional seats.  What this act does, and correct me if you think I'm wrong, is state that IF regional senate seats are nationalized, the matter in which they are voted upon would be the same as the Class B seats (currently the at-large seats)

[Torie]

Thanks DWTL. But this bill dumps the 5 national Senate seats. The 5 regional seats still stand. Do you want all seats to be regional?  Since as I noted in another post, the Senate effectively seems to have supreme power, don't you want at least some of them, to be subject to a national vote?

If I'm reading it correct (which I believe I am) it does not.

Class A seats are the regional seats.  What this act does, and correct me if you think I'm wrong, is state that IF regional senate seats are nationalized, the matter in which they are voted upon would be the same as the Class B seats (currently the at-large seats)

I don't have a clue, but regional senate seats will be nationalized over my dead body, and if they are over my corpse, then we are down to a process issue, rather than a fundamental structural issue. The uber complex way we elect at large Senators does not strike me as particularly flawed.

What does this all mean Lewis? Am I missing the curve here?  Yes, DWTL, Lewis really is, the jewel in the crown here. He is the man who knows, and tells his knowing with a word that is good. What would we do without him?

[DownWithTheLeft]

I believe the analogy used for this bill was it was buying the ammunition before the gun

[Јas]

The only reason I said that is because many senator automatically dismiss bills with my name attached to them

Basically, the reasoning is this.  This statue is meaningless and basically is a ploy to try and convince people to support eliminating regional senate seats.  Proponents cite that it will bring competitive elections and want to use the same formula as before as this bill does.  The fact is while the elections may become a tad more competitive, you are completely losing the aspect of senators having to appeal to a certain region.  For example, a referendum senate election in the Dirty South on regional rights (PiT v. BaconKing) has all the excitement of national elections, except it is a 1 on 1 different type of excitement.  Sure, some elections like yours and AndrewCTs were unchallenged, but that is because you both fit your region well and the forces that be did not want to challenge you.  The fact is if national elections were held, I'm quite sure that you and Andrew would have been elected as well as PiT.  However, Lewis very well may not have and therefore the Midwest and its small population would be lacking representation.  You also would miss out on the madness in the Mideast.  This is now two elections in a row (last time in the Southeast) that there has been an insane election providing a ton of excitement.  Why would we want to end these spectacles?

What a remarkable amount of twaddle.
The SE election isn't competitive, nor was it ever likely to be given the new regional demographics.
The only 'competitive' election this cycle is in the Mideast, where the majority of the electorate can't bear to vote for the only declared candidate and have no idea what to do.

Whatever about the merits of having regional elections, trying to paint the current set of regional elections is utterly ridiculous. Indeed, you have to go back quite some time to find a cycle of regional elections where they could reasonably be described as competitive.

If you want to keep regional elections - fine. But please leave the propaganda outside the Senate.

[Хahar 🤔]

Here is what the bill that DWDL proposes to remove does:

It provides rules for administration of elections in the case that regional Senate seats are abolished. It only becomes operative with an executive order, which would be given if and only if regional Senate seats are nationalized. At the moment, it does nothing, but acts as a precaution.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Jas, just because you do not agree with something does not make it propaganda.  The only propaganda being spread around is that if you oppose nationalizing all senate elections you are an idiot.

[Torie]

Here is what the bill that DWDL proposes to remove does:

It provides rules for administration of elections in the case that regional Senate seats are abolished. It only becomes operative with an executive order, which would be given if and only if regional Senate seats are nationalized. At the moment, it does nothing, but acts as a precaution.

Well then it seems masturbatory, and I am too old for that to give me much pleasure anymore.

[Јas]

The only propaganda being spread around is that if you oppose nationalizing all senate elections you are an idiot.

Holding onto regional Senate seats is a perfectly valid political opinion.
I wish the regional elections were competitive, but pretending that they are doesn't help anyone or address the fundamental problem.

[DownWithTheLeft]

The only propaganda being spread around is that if you oppose nationalizing all senate elections you are an idiot.

Holding onto regional Senate seats is a perfectly valid political opinion.
I wish the regional elections were competitive, but pretending that they are doesn't help anyone or address the fundamental problem.

There is no pretending.  If an incumbent is defeated that has to be considered a competitive election, the Mideast and Southeast chaos is not make believe either.  Hell, the Southeast race took over a month to settle.  That kind of chaos is what we need more of, not less

[Јas]

The only propaganda being spread around is that if you oppose nationalizing all senate elections you are an idiot.

Holding onto regional Senate seats is a perfectly valid political opinion.
I wish the regional elections were competitive, but pretending that they are doesn't help anyone or address the fundamental problem.

There is no pretending.  If an incumbent is defeated that has to be considered a competitive election,

The only standard by which an election can be judged competitive is the margin of victory.

the Mideast and Southeast chaos is not make believe either.  Hell, the Southeast race took over a month to settle.  That kind of chaos is what we need more of, not less

What on earth are you on about?
What chaos in the SE? 

[Torie]

As an aside, are we sure this Bill does not eliminate the 5 national proportional senate seats? Just asking, so we are sure we know what we are doing. I need all the help I can get. As I said elsewhere, asking questions, and more questions, is job one!

[Хahar 🤔]

This proposes repeal of an existing law.

The law in question does not, because that would require a constitutional amendment. It simply establishes guidelines in case of a nationalization. The same process was used for nationalization of at-large seats.

[Torie]

This proposes repeal of an existing law.

The law in question does not, because that would require a constitutional amendment. It simply establishes guidelines in case of a nationalization. The same process was used for nationalization of at-large seats.

Thanks Xahar, for helping an old man down the steps.