Predict the Obama Presidency
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Author Topic: Predict the Obama Presidency  (Read 6479 times)
tokar
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« Reply #75 on: October 13, 2008, 03:25:43 AM »

So, what kind of Presidency do you think he'll have?

I'm interested both in what his supporters expect from his and what his detractors fear from him.


#7) hopefully get rid of that ban on partial-birth abortions


You know, try as hard as I might, I have never been able to understand the affinity of some of the Left for the notion of riping a living human being who has a pretty decent chance of being self-sustaining, out of the body of another who is quite obviously pregnant at this point, cracking open thier skull and sucking out their brain, all while the infant is kicking and screaming. 

Perhaps you could enlighten me. 

Have you ever seen one of these performed?

It shouldn't be the Government's choice as to who can or can't have an abortion. If A women feels like it needs to be done, that's her decision. Why do you feel like you need to refuse a woman's right to do what she wants with her life/body?

I guess I can ask the same thing for Gay Marriages, since I think it applies there too.

First off, I'm not even talking about all abortion, I am talking about Partial Birth, in particular, so please don't retreat to those tired old lines about "right to choose" etc, etc, because in this case, it doesn't apply.  If you haven't made the choice by the time the child is viable, then that should be it, end of story.  If mommy has a problem with that then too fu(king bad.

When Bubba goes out and lynches a black man for sleeping with a white woman, we don't sit aroudn and invent excuses for why Bubba made that choice, and we certainly don't defend it.  We recongnize that someone took another functioning human life and ended it.

It shouldn't be the governments choice how I raise my kids, but if I beat them and lock them in a closet, then they... by which of course, I mean society and the law, ought to make it our business.  There are levels.  I am personally opposed to any and all abortions, but I can see arguments for keeping them legal... after six months, there are no excuses.

Bubba...dont you think thats a little racist?
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2008, 03:37:26 AM »

So, what kind of Presidency do you think he'll have?

I'm interested both in what his supporters expect from his and what his detractors fear from him.


#7) hopefully get rid of that ban on partial-birth abortions


You know, try as hard as I might, I have never been able to understand the affinity of some of the Left for the notion of riping a living human being who has a pretty decent chance of being self-sustaining, out of the body of another who is quite obviously pregnant at this point, cracking open thier skull and sucking out their brain, all while the infant is kicking and screaming. 

Perhaps you could enlighten me. 

Have you ever seen one of these performed?

It shouldn't be the Government's choice as to who can or can't have an abortion. If A women feels like it needs to be done, that's her decision. Why do you feel like you need to refuse a woman's right to do what she wants with her life/body?

I guess I can ask the same thing for Gay Marriages, since I think it applies there too.

First off, I'm not even talking about all abortion, I am talking about Partial Birth, in particular, so please don't retreat to those tired old lines about "right to choose" etc, etc, because in this case, it doesn't apply.  If you haven't made the choice by the time the child is viable, then that should be it, end of story.  If mommy has a problem with that then too fu(king bad.

When Bubba goes out and lynches a black man for sleeping with a white woman, we don't sit aroudn and invent excuses for why Bubba made that choice, and we certainly don't defend it.  We recongnize that someone took another functioning human life and ended it.

It shouldn't be the governments choice how I raise my kids, but if I beat them and lock them in a closet, then they... by which of course, I mean society and the law, ought to make it our business.  There are levels.  I am personally opposed to any and all abortions, but I can see arguments for keeping them legal... after six months, there are no excuses.

Bubba...dont you think thats a little racist?

I'm white.
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Platypus
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« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2008, 03:46:36 AM »

So, what kind of Presidency do you think he'll have?

I'm interested both in what his supporters expect from his and what his detractors fear from him.


#7) hopefully get rid of that ban on partial-birth abortions


You know, try as hard as I might, I have never been able to understand the affinity of some of the Left for the notion of riping a living human being who has a pretty decent chance of being self-sustaining, out of the body of another who is quite obviously pregnant at this point, cracking open thier skull and sucking out their brain, all while the infant is kicking and screaming. 

Perhaps you could enlighten me. 

Have you ever seen one of these performed?

It shouldn't be the Government's choice as to who can or can't have an abortion. If A women feels like it needs to be done, that's her decision. Why do you feel like you need to refuse a woman's right to do what she wants with her life/body?

I guess I can ask the same thing for Gay Marriages, since I think it applies there too.

Gay marriages aren't brutality.

I'm anti-abortion very strongly, but even more strongly pro-choice. It's the right of a woman to make an informed choice about the fetus for as long as the life/potential life is completely dependent on the mother. Partial-birth abortions strip the life from a living human being, pure and simple, and are brutal barbarism without OVERWHELMINGLY strong medical reasons.
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HardRCafé
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« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2008, 03:53:23 AM »

It shouldn't be the Government's choice as to who can or can't have an abortion. If A women feels like it needs to be done, that's her decision. Why do you feel like you need to refuse a woman's right to do what she wants with her life/body?

I've never understood how people overlook that it's two bodies, not one.

I've also never understood how people write "a women," but that's beside the point.
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TheGlobalizer
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« Reply #79 on: October 13, 2008, 10:58:41 AM »

Hillary Clinton might challenge Obama for the 2012 nomination in that scenario, Ford. If his approval ratings were that sucky, he'd almost certainly receive at least one if not several high profile challengers.

Strongly agree.  Dems eat their own.

(To be fair, the GOP is loyal to a fault -- see Bush.)
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #80 on: October 13, 2008, 11:32:20 AM »

So, what kind of Presidency do you think he'll have?

I'm interested both in what his supporters expect from his and what his detractors fear from him.

Top 10 things in no particular order:

#1) get federal funding for stem cell research passed
#2) elect two liberal supreme court justices to replace the two liberal expectant outgoing justices (Ginsberg and Kennedy)
#3) timetable for Iraq
#4) get into serious discussions about socialized medicine
#5) get into serious discussions to further move along alternative energy
#6) get into serious discussions to further move along alternate fueled cars (sorry, but 35mpg by 2015 is NOT enough)
#7) hopefully get rid of that ban on partial-birth abortions
#8) pass more regulation of the markets
#9) more domestic spending
#10) implementing his proposed tax plan (tax cuts for the poor, tax increases for the excessively rich)

Oh, someone who supports killing babies I see.  Well, aren't you just the big bad macho man.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #81 on: October 13, 2008, 11:35:26 AM »

Hillary Clinton might challenge Obama for the 2012 nomination in that scenario, Ford. If his approval ratings were that sucky, he'd almost certainly receive at least one if not several high profile challengers.

Strongly agree.  Dems eat their own.

(To be fair, the GOP is loyal to a fault -- see Bush.)


Not really. Ford and Reagan battled it out in 1976. The Republicans had no reason to challenge Bush in 2004 anyway. He had a 52% approval rating and won reelection.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #82 on: October 13, 2008, 11:39:18 AM »

My prediction is, he'll stay toward the center in order to get things done.  That means several unfulfilled promises, but moving toward the center applies to mosts Presidents.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #83 on: October 13, 2008, 01:01:42 PM »

It shouldn't be the Government's choice as to who can or can't have an abortion. If A women feels like it needs to be done, that's her decision. Why do you feel like you need to refuse a woman's right to do what she wants with her life/body?

I've never understood how people overlook that it's two bodies, not one.


That doesn't help their argument!
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #84 on: October 13, 2008, 01:34:51 PM »

Obama’s inaugural address will be incredibly boring.  It will still be hailed by the press as the greatest speech ever given.

That was the only part of that post that wasn't BS.

Aw, you didn't even like my Supreme Court picks?

I don't care about those.
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angus
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« Reply #85 on: October 13, 2008, 01:37:30 PM »
« Edited: October 13, 2008, 01:44:59 PM by angus »

So, what kind of Presidency do you think he'll have?

I'm interested both in what his supporters expect from his and what his detractors fear from him.

A weak presidency, I hope.  The office was designed to be limited in authority, with but four specific duties delineated in the U. S. Constitution.  Over the years, many presidents have strengthened the office, usually to unfavorable effect.  I get the general impression that he'll be a president more in the mold that the founders had intended, which will be refreshing.

Beyond restoring general weakness to the office, I'm hoping he'll use the specific duties appropriate to his office to end the Iraq war within four years.  I'm fairly confident that he'll withdraw the troops, and his position on Iraq is closer to mine than McCain's, but I'm somewhat less confident that the withdrawal will be on the terms most desirable for our country.  But I think he'll surround himself with competent advisors so it's not too much to hope for a reasonably effective withdrawal.

Also, he can use his designated duty as national representative to foreign governments to great effect.  I think he'll be pro-active in restoring the image of the United States, abroad, as a positive force in world affairs.  He'll have a small head start.  His arabic first name, and arabic-sounding last name are definitely beneficial in this regard, and if the spin is done well, that, along with his decidedly ethnic look, can show the arabic-speaking world that we are not bigots toward non-Europeans.  Moreover, in a 24-nation survey published this month by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, pollsters found that Bush's exit helps U.S. image abroad, no matter who wins in November.  In Indonesia, for example, positive views plunged to 15 percent in 2003 from 61 percent in 2002, but they have now rebounded to 37 percent. In other countries like France, Britain and Turkey, favorable views edged up this year, but by less than four percentage points.  But despite the upward trends, only eight nations among those 24 surveyed have a majority favorable view of the US.  They are Britain, India, Lebanon, Nigeria, Poland, South Africa, South Korea and Tanzania.  So it'll take more than a brownie with a vaguely arabic name to polish our tarnished veneer.  And it's important that the polish be applied, since we continue to require assistance defending intellectual property rights, fighting terrorism, and maintaining ecologically sound economic management.  And our shrinking share of the global aggregate GDP--22% now, down from 45% thirty years ago--demands it.  The good news is that Obama will be viewed more favorably from the get-go than McCain.  Let's hope he exploits the good will in a way that benefits the United States, rather than squandering it and over-negotiating.  Time will tell.  

On the domestic issues, I generally expect him to peel back some of the more grandiose parts of his legislative agenda.  Specifically, I think he'll encounter resistance in any attempt to provide universal health care at great expense to the taxpayer, which is good.  I also think he'll promote an agenda of greater self-sufficiency in energy.  He has already warmed up to the idea of exploratory drilling for oil, which is also a good thing.  But it'll take more than this to solve our energy-demand problem.  We need to invest more in research for alternative and more efficient technologies.  I think Obama will pursue this agenda, within limitations, and I hope he attempts to encourage more mass transit investment.  I am not hopeful of the latter, because it is precisely this weakness that will limit him.  I think most presidents have over-reached and strengthened the office too much, so I welcome a weak presidency, but in this one instance a stronger voice is needed.  Maybe he'll learn to be stronger in some areas, specifically when encouraging the congress to consider energy research, public transit initiatives, and exploratory drilling for oil in US waters and soil.

I do not expect him to pursue a radical social agenda.  If anything, I expect him to be less ideological than other presidents, republican or democrat, in this regard.  
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TheGlobalizer
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« Reply #86 on: October 13, 2008, 01:43:00 PM »

Hillary Clinton might challenge Obama for the 2012 nomination in that scenario, Ford. If his approval ratings were that sucky, he'd almost certainly receive at least one if not several high profile challengers.

Strongly agree.  Dems eat their own.

(To be fair, the GOP is loyal to a fault -- see Bush.)


Not really. Ford and Reagan battled it out in 1976. The Republicans had no reason to challenge Bush in 2004 anyway. He had a 52% approval rating and won reelection.

Ford wasn't elected, and was not a popular or consensus pick.

The cracks in the Bush regime were showing in 2004, regardless of the popularity level.  Regardless, I'd more specifically point to the 2006 elections and the 2008 primaries as evidence of supporting the Bush administration for far too long.  If McCain loses, it may end up looking that way in hindsight, too (he has properly thrown Bush under the bus a bit since the convention, though not as much as I would prefer).
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JSojourner
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« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2008, 03:16:51 PM »
« Edited: October 13, 2008, 03:28:15 PM by JSojourner »

JS, you are just such a hopeless optimist. I suspect you are a believing Christian, as a wild guess. This stuff about conversations and the like, to reach some golden mean of wisdom, just isn't the way things are done. What is realistic, is that Obama will be in a policy strait jacket, as his more rabid supporters bite at his heels. His real challenge will be to persuade his true believers that there is no there, there.

I do believe that Obama will be determined not to be a failed president, and he has the discipline and smarts to avoid that, if he has the courage to anger his base. We  shall see.


I hope so, Torie.  More or less, anyway. 

I am a believing Christian...I was a nutter for a long time, but shed that nonsense about 20 years ago.  That story's been told elsewhere.  I've a deep, abiding respect for Atheists, Agnostics and religious folk who don't see things my way.  Except those who define themselves on the basis of who and what they hate, rather than who and what they love.

This rap about national conversations isn't silly, I don't think.  It's uncomfortable sometimes.  Sometimes, it goes horribly sour.  But it does get us places.  Civil Rights is a good example.  The conversations were just whispers in the 30's and 40's...a few good people, preaching to the choir.  But the talk continued.  I am not saying new national conversations can do away with left and right completely.  Or even that they should.  Just that different voices can start to be heard.  And compromises, healthy ones, can be reached.

In 1998, President Clinton endorsed legislation authored by Tom Daschle that would have dramatically reduced the number of abortions in this country.  The package contained elements abortion rights opponents thought amounted to compromise...and elements pro-choice folk considered too restrictive.  I, for one, didn't like that more abortions would be criminalized.  We've had that talk...I think that's an exercise in futility.  But still...even the National Right to Life grudgingly admitted that there would have been about 300 thousand fewer abortions had the Daschle Amendment become law.  It failed.

And I believe it failed because the only voices heard were those of Eleanor Smeal on the left, saying it was too restrictive...and James Dobson on the right, saying it was too permissive.  Would that more Americans had heard Gordon Smith and Tom Daschle! 

I'm just saying -- it's how we have these conversations that matters.  And who we listen to and put out in front.  Rather than rely on a nutter to publicly decry abortion, consider advancing the message of arch-liberal Nat Hentoff...who also happens to be a rock-ribbed anti-choice guy.  Before we call on another angry, "it's just a blob of tissue" feminist to call for unfettered access to abortion, let's think about listening to a basically conservative guy, Tom Ridge, who happens to have some sympathy for the reality that the genie is now out of the bottle.

I think this can happen.  Will it?  Oh, I agree...it would be the hardest, most difficult task for us all.  Clean-burning, plentiful energy and finding a cure for cancer are probably easier -- if we put our mind to it.  (and we should)  Still, there's something awfully attractive about mutual respect, civility and finding higher, if not common, ground.
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JSojourner
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« Reply #88 on: October 13, 2008, 03:23:44 PM »

So, what kind of Presidency do you think he'll have?

I'm interested both in what his supporters expect from his and what his detractors fear from him.


#7) hopefully get rid of that ban on partial-birth abortions


You know, try as hard as I might, I have never been able to understand the affinity of some of the Left for the notion of riping a living human being who has a pretty decent chance of being self-sustaining, out of the body of another who is quite obviously pregnant at this point, cracking open thier skull and sucking out their brain, all while the infant is kicking and screaming. 

Perhaps you could enlighten me. 

Have you ever seen one of these performed?

Yes, at least a videotaped presentation.  These are typically, though not always I gather, performed on fetuses that are afflicted with anencephaly.  In short, the baby's brain grows in-utero, outside the closed skull.  Children born like this can live into young adulthood...if they undergo multiple surgeries.  As I understand it, they are always -- not just most of the time, but always -- complete vegetables.  Even so, the parents can still choose to have the baby.  Or have it, and abandon it to the state.  They aren't forced to undergo any kind of abortion procedure.

Still, I would gladly support a ban on partial birth abortion if it is ever performed when non-anencephalous fetuses are involved.  And presuming anyone could agree on a legally appropriate punishment for violators.
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