French Socialist Party leadership race, 2008 (user search)
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  French Socialist Party leadership race, 2008 (search mode)
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Author Topic: French Socialist Party leadership race, 2008  (Read 25112 times)
big bad fab
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« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2008, 09:54:21 AM »

That couldn't have been worse for the PS

Not quite true; Royal could've been the winner by 40 votes.
You're right, as I think Aubry would be more threatening for Sarkozy in a presidential election.

Aubry is more serious than Royal.
She can be "sold" by the MSM without all Royal's weird words and ideas that the MSM can't hide.
She is a woman (even if it's not entirely obvious when you see her...) and the French MSM desperately want a "minority" candidate to win, all the more since Obama's big win.
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big bad fab
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« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2008, 12:03:02 PM »
« Edited: November 23, 2008, 12:07:37 PM by big bad fab »

For those among you who can read the French language, this from Associated Press:

Les "royalistes", qui ont les premiers dénoncé des "tricheries", ont annoncé par la voix de Manuel Valls qu'ils disposaient de "dizaines d'exemples" d'irrégularités en leur défaveur et qu'ils porteraient l'affaire en justice.

Une première plainte devrait porter sur un "faux en écriture" qui aurait été commis dans une section lilloise, où "20 voix se sont portées en faveur de Martine Aubry par un faux en écriture", estime le député-maire d'Evry Manuel Valls. Claude Bartolone, député de Seine-Saint-Denis, proche de la maire de Lille, a répondu à l'Associated Press que l'erreur avait été faite "à l'annonce du résultat, mais (que) le procès-verbal est bon".

Les "royalistes" dénoncent aussi, par un communiqué du président de l'association Désirs d'avenir Jean-Pierre Mignard "une inversion des voix dans une section de Moselle", une erreur qui réduirait l'écart de 24 voix en faveur de Ségolène Royal.

Les résultats de la candidate à la dernière présidentielle ont également été minorés de six voix dans la section alsacienne de Kingersheim, selon le maire socialiste de la commune du Haut-Rhin: "j'ose espérer que c'est une erreur", a déclaré Joseph Spiegel, interrogé par l'Associated Press.

Dans le camp de Ségolène Royal, on compte aussi sur les résultats de la Nouvelle-Calédonie (13 voix pour Royal, 3 pour Aubry), de Wallis-et-Futuna et de la Polynésie française, dont les votes n'ont pas été inclus dans la "totalisation" rendue publique par le PS. Le vote des Français de l'étranger, très favorables à Mme Royal n'a pas été non plus complètement pris en compte.

Mais des erreurs bien plus importantes sont relevées par les "aubrystes". En Gironde, les résultats de la section de Blaye ont été mal transmis à la fédération: Claude Bartolone assure qu'il faut là ajouter 11 voix à Martine Aubry et en retrancher 41 à Ségolène Royal.

Claude Bartolone dénonce aussi la non prise en compte du vote dans la section de Maussane, dans les Bouches-du-Rhône, dissoute par la fédération après le vote sur les motions. Là, Martine Aubry aurait obtenu 84 voix contre 2 à Ségolène Royal, un résultat ignoré par la fédération départementale, largement acquise à la présidente de Poitou-Charente.

Surtout, les "aubrystes" dénoncent des "fraudes évidentes" et massives en Guadeloupe où la participation a bondi de 17% entre jeudi et vendredi. Claude Bartolone a affirmé à l'Associated Press que des partisans de Ségolène Royal, une fois les résultats métropolitains connus, avaient téléphoné aux Antilles pour inciter à gonfler le score de Royal.

D'après Axel Urgin, coordinateur de la campagne de Martine Aubry pour l'Outre-mer, 500 des 1.536 voix récoltées par Ségolène Royal à la Guadeloupe devraient être annulées.

Il dénonce, chiffres à l'appui, des résultats locaux modifiés à la fédération, une hausse inexpliquée de 70% de la participation dans une section, des votes par téléphone ou encore un bureau de vote "déplacé au dernier moment au domicile de la secrétaire de section".

Le premier secrétaire de la fédération de Guadeloupe, Jules Otto, a fait part "de son indignation" face à ces accusations, expliquant dans un communiqué que la participation avait été boostée par le décalage horaire, les Guadeloupéens étant allés voter "quand il est apparu que les résultats seraient serrés". AP


In France, wherever in general elections or party primaries, there never was a need for recount, as the US are now fond of.
In general elections, offixial results are proclaimed and you go to the public law judge, which is also an electoral judge.
For party elections, either there is rules which are enoughe, or, as in the PS case, there is nothing. And so, it can go on and on and on.

We have NEVER seen something like that in all French electoral history !

Aubry-Coleman vs Royal-Franken !
(yes, let's keep "locos" together...)

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big bad fab
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« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2008, 04:46:42 PM »
« Edited: November 23, 2008, 05:12:39 PM by big bad fab »

There are (strong) examples of cheating on both sides.

In the 13, some Delanoe-Aubry supporters reported being intimidated by the Guerini federation.

Even if you are not anti-Royal, it's quite obvious that "magouilles" or scheming and cheating are a sort of old Tradition in Bouches-du-Rhône, Hérault and Guadeloupe... and I wouldn't be very confident in Essonne's results as well.

Sure, in Seine-Maritime, Nord, Pas-de-Calais, Seine-Saint-Denis, they are not young virgins, devoid of any wrongdoing...

But, cheating from some supporters of Royal (Guérini, Frèche, Dray, Rebsamen) are likely to be far greater than those from some supporters of Aubry (Bartolone, Fabius, Cambadélis).

Anyway, the fight will be long and bitter.
But the PS isn't likely to explode, because, the one who leaves loses public financing, based on parties having had candidates in the last "législatives" (parliamentarian elections).

Hashemite, I've just sent you the pdf file of 2nd round results by federations.
You can find it on the PS site now and on lefigaro.fr.
Impossible to get first round results....
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big bad fab
filliatre
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« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2008, 05:10:40 PM »

Sorry !
I've just checked and I can't see your map of yesterday. Don't know why.
Anyway, this new one is OK.

Gironde and Haute-Garonne are really the 2 big surprises.

My friends, let's have a look at Hashemite's thread on French by-elections and you will see that the PS is on the verge of gaining one parliamentarian seat in Gironde !!!!
Who has said the PS is in crisis !!!
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big bad fab
filliatre
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« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2008, 05:31:30 AM »
« Edited: November 24, 2008, 06:34:53 AM by big bad fab »

Please, it's Royal, not Royale.

If you vote again, but with the same split result and with the same cheatings, it's useless.

Either they agree on a name now (with a bitter fight keeping on weakening the party for years),
or (as Moscovici has partly proposed) they choose a collegial leadership for some months, before voting again on clear projects, with clear alliances and better polling rules and checks...
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big bad fab
filliatre
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« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2008, 09:39:18 AM »

Couldn't they just have a revote with just Royale and Aubry?

To settle things once and for all?

Cheating and dirty tricks wouldn't disappear. And around 70% of PS supporters are opposed to a re-vote.

Sure, but be careful about this poll. It's a poll from OpinionWay, which polls through the web and which makes polls only for Le Figaro...
Anyway, this is 70% (63% in fact and 69% of French people as a whole, IIRC) of supporters, not of PS members (these would be too difficult to poll, of course).

I think it's just that people are now fed up with the Socialist party and its quarrels and internal votes (3 in 2 weeks, plus the Congress itself).... while the economic crisis is here.
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big bad fab
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« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2008, 05:26:19 PM »

The commission de récolement met today. Royal and Vaillant accused forty federations of voter fraud.

Vaillant, an old jospinist and former Home Minister, is the president of this committee. He denies there are cheatings or mistakes in as much as 40 federations. You must have wanted to write Rebsamen or Assouline or Mignard.

Tonight, the "royalistes" threaten to sue the party and to organize a popular gathering in front of PS building,rue de Solférino....

My friends, I think we'll have to call the police soon....
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big bad fab
filliatre
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« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2008, 06:24:36 AM »

Vincent Peillon, Royal's first supporter, has said that Aubry's lead was down to 4 votes after the first day of meeting of the "commission de récolement" (a sort of recount committee).

To be continued...

But, tonight, the national committee is said to give the name, after a last meeting of the "commission de récolement".

Royal will probably refuse to agree on a decision that she will regard as a biased one by a current leadership and internal committees which are controlled by "hollandais", "delanoistes", "strauss-kahniens" or "fabiusiens" who support Aubry.

"Ségolène vs the old establishment", chapter 118, part 725...

A good comparison for the PS in the next months may be Lopez Obrador's behaviour after narrow Calderon's victory.
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big bad fab
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« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2008, 04:50:49 PM »

The commission announced its final results: Aubry 67 451 (50.04%), Royal 67 349 (49.96%)—that's a margin of 102 votes for Aubry. The party's national council validated these results by a vote of 159 to 76, with two abstentions.

David Assouline called for a revote even after the results were announced, as did Vincent Peillon, who said that it was the condition sine qua non for the Royal supporters to rally behind Aubry. After Aubry reached out to Royal, Jean-Louis Bianco announced that the Royal campaign would be seeking legal action against the PS.


Edit: Royal has called for unity and seems to have conceded, but many of her supporters are still contesting the results. Valls and Bianco are still threatening to seek legal action against the PS if it denies them a revote.

Royal lets her closest aides lead the bitter and practical fight and she tries to remain above... Lol !

We'll see if and how Aubry is able to form the Politburo of the Socialist party ("bureau national"). First issue on her road...

Eventually, Dominique Strauss-Kahn may be the real winner and it might be wondered whether he foresaw all of this and so pushed Cambadélis to ease the mess...
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