CNN confirms that Biden is Obama's choice for running mate
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  CNN confirms that Biden is Obama's choice for running mate
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Author Topic: CNN confirms that Biden is Obama's choice for running mate  (Read 9204 times)
J. J.
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« Reply #100 on: August 23, 2008, 03:25:08 AM »

And there is no math that gives Obama a win without PA and Ohio.

Ridge probably brings in the most EV's of any person on either shortlist.

Even giving Obama all the tossups and throwing in VA, he loses.
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Lunar
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« Reply #101 on: August 23, 2008, 03:28:06 AM »

....if Ridge guaranteed both Pennsylvania and Ohio, which he most certainly would not.
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J. J.
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« Reply #102 on: August 23, 2008, 03:29:46 AM »

And there is no math that gives Obama a win without PA and Ohio.

Ridge probably brings in the most EV's of any person on either shortlist.

     I guess that this isn't a win then:



     I find it to be reasonable. Ridge will have absolutely zero effect in CO, NV, NM, IA, or VA. I figure Obama has at least a 50/50 shot at each of those states anyway.

Even in NV and CO, because of his abortion stance, he attracts the Hilary women.  Same in VA, but VA was a state subject to a terrorist attack.  That's why he's such a good candidate on so many levels.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #103 on: August 23, 2008, 03:31:27 AM »

And there is no math that gives Obama a win without PA and Ohio.

Ridge probably brings in the most EV's of any person on either shortlist.

     I guess that this isn't a win then:



     I find it to be reasonable. Ridge will have absolutely zero effect in CO, NV, NM, IA, or VA. I figure Obama has at least a 50/50 shot at each of those states anyway.

That scenario is pretty unlikely. And Ridge shores up VA and IA because of the working class vote.  As I said, Ridge screams "not unfriendly to workers".  What Biden screams might not be fit for TV.

Ridge appeals to a lot of ex-Hillary voters.
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J. J.
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« Reply #104 on: August 23, 2008, 03:32:58 AM »

....if Ridge guaranteed both Pennsylvania and helps in Ohio, which he most certainly would not.

Fixed.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #105 on: August 23, 2008, 03:34:17 AM »

....if Ridge guaranteed both Pennsylvania and Ohio, which he most certainly would not.

     Of course. Ridge would have as much of an effect on Ohio as Jerry Brown would on Nevada. He's not the governor in Ohio after all.

And there is no math that gives Obama a win without PA and Ohio.

Ridge probably brings in the most EV's of any person on either shortlist.

     I guess that this isn't a win then:



     I find it to be reasonable. Ridge will have absolutely zero effect in CO, NV, NM, IA, or VA. I figure Obama has at least a 50/50 shot at each of those states anyway.

That scenario is pretty unlikely. And Ridge shores up VA and IA because of the working class vote.  As I said, Ridge screams "not unfriendly to workers".  What Biden screams might not be fit for TV.

Ridge appeals to a lot of ex-Hillary voters.

     Too bad for McCain that Ridge is not at the top of the ticket & as such, him appealing to the working class & women is totally meaningless. 99.9% of voters could not care less about who the running mates are when they vote. McCain is the one who would be president; not Ridge.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #106 on: August 23, 2008, 03:34:31 AM »

....if Ridge guaranteed both Pennsylvania and Ohio, which he most certainly would not.

He would guarantee PA for certain.  And as I have said many, many times.  Ridge is a regional player.  Always has been.  His district was located right across the boarder from Youngstown, Ashtabula, Akron and Cleveland, and his connections there aren't to be down played.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #107 on: August 23, 2008, 03:36:33 AM »

Sometimes I get the idea that most people on this forum would have nothing to say to me if they simply read what I have already said.  Anymore, it seems as though I previously address the concerns of 95% of all posters who come at me.
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Alcon
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« Reply #108 on: August 23, 2008, 03:38:24 AM »

Soult, I don't think it's that we haven't read your posts...it's (at least for me) that I think you're being optimistic.

I'd be interested to see how McCain informs voters that his VP is pro-choice without annoying religious conservatives.  I'd also totally be impressed by a "not unfriendly to workers" VP taking Iowa from like Obama +5 to solid McCain.

But, whatever you guys say.  He's from your state.  I evidently do not understand the majic.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #109 on: August 23, 2008, 03:40:42 AM »

....if Ridge guaranteed both Pennsylvania and Ohio, which he most certainly would not.

     Of course. Ridge would have as much of an effect on Ohio as Jerry Brown would on Nevada. He's not the governor in Ohio after all.

And there is no math that gives Obama a win without PA and Ohio.

Ridge probably brings in the most EV's of any person on either shortlist.

     I guess that this isn't a win then:



     I find it to be reasonable. Ridge will have absolutely zero effect in CO, NV, NM, IA, or VA. I figure Obama has at least a 50/50 shot at each of those states anyway.

That scenario is pretty unlikely. And Ridge shores up VA and IA because of the working class vote.  As I said, Ridge screams "not unfriendly to workers".  What Biden screams might not be fit for TV.

Ridge appeals to a lot of ex-Hillary voters.

     Too bad for McCain that Ridge is not at the top of the ticket & as such, him appealing to the working class & women is totally meaningless. 99.9% of voters could not care less about who the running mates are when they vote. McCain is the one who would be president; not Ridge.

First off, I was unaware that San Fransisco and Las Vegas were in the same socio-political region... or even anywhere close to one another.

Second, as I said before, picking Ridge helps set the tone of the campaign in ways that go beyond his immediate impact on the ticket.
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« Reply #110 on: August 23, 2008, 03:45:09 AM »

....if Ridge guaranteed both Pennsylvania and Ohio, which he most certainly would not.

     Of course. Ridge would have as much of an effect on Ohio as Jerry Brown would on Nevada. He's not the governor in Ohio after all.

And there is no math that gives Obama a win without PA and Ohio.

Ridge probably brings in the most EV's of any person on either shortlist.

     I guess that this isn't a win then:



     I find it to be reasonable. Ridge will have absolutely zero effect in CO, NV, NM, IA, or VA. I figure Obama has at least a 50/50 shot at each of those states anyway.

That scenario is pretty unlikely. And Ridge shores up VA and IA because of the working class vote.  As I said, Ridge screams "not unfriendly to workers".  What Biden screams might not be fit for TV.

Ridge appeals to a lot of ex-Hillary voters.

     Too bad for McCain that Ridge is not at the top of the ticket & as such, him appealing to the working class & women is totally meaningless. 99.9% of voters could not care less about who the running mates are when they vote. McCain is the one who would be president; not Ridge.

First off, I was unaware that San Fransisco and Las Vegas were in the same socio-political region... or even anywhere close to one another.

Second, as I said before, picking Ridge helps set the tone of the campaign in ways that go beyond his immediate impact on the ticket.

     Now you do. Tongue

     Anyway, McCain can set the tone of his campaign independent of Ridge. My point remains that Ridge himself would have almost no effect on any of the five states I have flipping. Vice-presidents never do unless they bring something huge to the ticket, like Cheney bringing experience.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #111 on: August 23, 2008, 03:49:41 AM »


     Now you do. Tongue

     Anyway, McCain can set the tone of his campaign independent of Ridge. My point remains that Ridge himself would have almost no effect on any of the five states I have flipping. Vice-presidents never do unless they bring something huge to the ticket, like Cheney bringing experience.



Picking Ridge puts PA in McCain's pocket.  Signed, sealed, delivered.

Picking Ridge highlights the GOP's effort to reach out to the working class, because, in terms of backgrounds you don't get any more working class than Ridge.

Ridge is a decorated Vietnam Veteran, which increases McCain's strength there.

McCain can effortlessly highlight experience by picking Ridge, whereas Obama fumbled, ineloquently, and practically strained to admit, with his VP choice, that he has none.  This increases the contrast.

Ridge doesn't outshine McCain in any significant category... except height.  Which is good for a VP pick.

Ridge is a good personality match for McCain, and will blend in well with the tempo of the campaign.  Just watch the Obama camp try to get Barack and Biden to match or blend.

Finally, if Saddleback didn't convince social conservatives, then nothing ever will.  The negative reaction against Ridge is coming from the pundants and not voters.  Granted, they turn some heads, but this will all look relatively minor by October.

If Ridge gets enough stump/debate practice, there won't be an fumbling.  He'll be fine.
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Storebought
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« Reply #112 on: August 23, 2008, 03:53:38 AM »

And there is no math that gives Obama a win without PA and Ohio.

Ridge probably brings in the most EV's of any person on either shortlist.

I will say that I still have misgivings about Ridge, in spite of your passionate defense of him. They extend even beyond his abortion moderation (which must be kept in mind at all times in GOP politics).

Does he still have real electoral cache in PA or, better still, Midwestern politics? Do endorsements from him matter? Most importantly, could he even win "reelection", so to speak, if he ran in PA today? Not only do I get the strong impression that Ridge's time, like Giuliani's in NY, is up, the state itself (along with NH) seems to have turned in a tidal wave to the Democrats these few years.

I dismiss, though, concerns about his stint in the DHS. No one remembers that anyhow.

Not to overstate the importance of VP picks -- I just think that Ridge would be a electoral dud outside of (and perhaps even in) the old industrial Northwest, and will just drag down a ticket already burdened with a still-distrusted McCain with so much ballast.

In the end, I think Romney would be the pick -- he has all of the faults of Ridge (not being able to be elected in a home state not named "Utah"), but has the benefit of being trusted by social conservatives.
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« Reply #113 on: August 23, 2008, 03:55:50 AM »


     Now you do. Tongue

     Anyway, McCain can set the tone of his campaign independent of Ridge. My point remains that Ridge himself would have almost no effect on any of the five states I have flipping. Vice-presidents never do unless they bring something huge to the ticket, like Cheney bringing experience.



Picking Ridge puts PA in McCain's pocket.  Signed, sealed, delivered.

Picking Ridge highlights the GOP's effort to reach out to the working class, because, in terms of backgrounds you don't get any more working class than Ridge.

Ridge is a decorated Vietnam Veteran, which increases McCain's strength there.

McCain can effortlessly highlight experience by picking Ridge, whereas Obama fumbled, ineloquently, and practically strained to admit, with his VP choice, that he has none.  This increases the contrast.

Ridge doesn't outshine McCain in any significant category... except height.  Which is good for a VP pick.

Ridge is a good personality match for McCain, and will blend in well with the tempo of the campaign.  Just watch the Obama camp try to get Barack and Biden to match or blend.

Finally, if Saddleback didn't convince social conservatives, then nothing ever will.  The negative reaction against Ridge is coming from the pundants and not voters.  Granted, they turn some heads, but this will all look relatively minor by October.

If Ridge gets enough stump/debate practice, there won't be an fumbling.  He'll be fine.

     Ridge has a military background & lots of experience. Those merely accentuate McCain's strong points, so I don't see that as being too great a boon. Working class credentials help cover a weak point, though considering that that's something more issue-based & less nebulous than experience, I doubt he'll be such an asset that he'll immediately guarantee the election.

     Don't get me wrong, I believe that Ridge is McCain's best option. I, however, don't think that McCain is guaranteed victory if he picks Ridge.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #114 on: August 23, 2008, 03:58:47 AM »
« Edited: August 23, 2008, 04:05:16 AM by Supersoulty »

And there is no math that gives Obama a win without PA and Ohio.

Ridge probably brings in the most EV's of any person on either shortlist.

I will say that I still have misgivings about Ridge, in spite of your passionate defense of him. They extend even beyond his abortion moderation (which must be kept in mind at all times in GOP politics).

Does he still have real electoral cache in PA or, better still, Midwestern politics? Do endorsements from him matter? Most importantly, could he even win "reelection", so to speak, if he ran in PA today? Not only do I get the strong impression that Ridge's time, like Giuliani's in NY, is up, the state itself (along with NH) seems to have turned in a tidal wave to the Democrats these few years.

I dismiss, though, concerns about his stint in the DHS. No one remembers that anyhow.

Not to overstate the importance of VP picks -- I just think that Ridge would be a electoral dud outside of (and perhaps even in) the old industrial Northwest, and will just drag down a ticket already burdened with a still-distrusted McCain with so much ballast.

In the end, I think Romney would be the pick -- he has all of the faults of Ridge (not being able to be elected in a home state not named "Utah"), but has the benefit of being trusted by social conservatives.

There were a few polls conducted back in early '06 pitting Ridge against Rendell (it would have been possible for him to run, and there was a brief movement).  They all showed Ridge defeating Rendell by significant margins.  Interesting, if one considers the actual result of the election.

And I for one can attest that Ridge is still very popular in the Northwest, which is one part of the state where there has been significant Republican bleeding in the last couple elections.

And don't forget... this also sets Ridge up as the parties standard bearer in 2012 if McCain wins (he would be 66).
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #115 on: August 23, 2008, 04:07:02 AM »

Because lets face it... McCain is likely a one termer due to his age... in fact, there is alot of buzz that he has made a one term pledge behind closed doors.
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« Reply #116 on: August 23, 2008, 04:08:57 AM »

Because lets face it... McCain is a one termer.

     I agree. If he ran for & won re-election he would be 80 when he left the White House.
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The Duke
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« Reply #117 on: August 23, 2008, 04:15:50 AM »

And don't forget... this also sets Ridge up as the parties standard bearer in 2012 if McCain wins (he would be 66).

I'm confused, are you now arguing for or against Ridge? Wink

I'm not jazzed about Ridge as President.

If he delivers Pennsylvania and the McCain campaign has polls showing he delivers Pennsykvania, then there's really no discussion.  Ridge must be the pick.  But if he doesn't clearly deliver Pennsylvania he shouldn't be on the shortlist because I don't see anything else about him that recommends him.
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Alcon
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« Reply #118 on: August 23, 2008, 04:21:35 AM »

Any chance you could dig this poll up, Chris?
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HardRCafé
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« Reply #119 on: August 23, 2008, 06:47:35 AM »

In the end, I think Romney would be the pick -- he has all of the faults of Ridge (not being able to be elected in a home state not named "Utah"), but has the benefit of being trusted by social conservatives.

Whoa, wait one minute.  Where did you get the idea Romney is trusted by social Conservatives?
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Speed of Sound
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« Reply #120 on: August 23, 2008, 06:54:19 AM »

Ugh.............my stomach..................... (-_- )
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #121 on: August 23, 2008, 07:03:14 AM »


Well, at least if he's up texting at 3:30am then he's probably going to be able to answer that 3am phone call when it comes through.
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Nym90
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« Reply #122 on: August 23, 2008, 09:14:37 AM »

I certainly hope McCain picks a running mate who was both part of Bush's cabinet and also would royally piss off the base. I realize the more moderate blue avatars on this forum don't care if McCain's running mate is pro-choice (which is commendable) but it's still a big issue for a lot of the GOP base vote.

Oh but wait, VP candidates always deliver their home states. Wink History has clearly shown this to be true.
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JSojourner
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« Reply #123 on: August 23, 2008, 09:42:14 AM »

Ridge is easily McCain's smartest pick.  Who will the religious conservatives vote for?  Not Obama-Biden.  Plus, though Ridge is pro-choice, he's not the most hardcore supporter of abortion rights in the GOP.  And if George H.W. Bush could suddenly "get religion" on the issue in 1980, Ridge can, too. 

Ridge is popular in Pennsylvania, well-liked by both Republicans AND Democrats.  His ties to the Bush administration are certainly not a plus -- BUT -- his getting out of that nuthouse when he did could easily be sold to the electorate as a plus.  I know my admiration for anyone who has left the Bush administration has gone up. 

Now, does he help in Ohio?  Well, he doesn't win the state for McCain, that's for sure.  But so what?  It's not so much that he helps in a given state, it's that he doesn't frighten or worry liberal Republicans, Independents and conservative Democrats...all of whom could swing one way or the other.  To that extent, you bet he helps in Ohio.

I simply don't see a down side to Tom Ridge.  And I hope McCain chooses someone else!
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #124 on: August 23, 2008, 10:06:28 AM »

BRTD should have a field day with this thread.
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