Should the USA help Georgia?

[MODU]

Short answer, Yes. 

Long answer, Yes.

We have already made significant diplomatic and strategic relationships with Georgia once it came out under the shadows of Russia, and it would hurt our relationships with other nations if we fail to provide some level of support to the country.  Ideally (assuming that the UN was actually worth something), we would submit and get passed a joint-resolution (cosponsored by China since they have a strategic interest in the region) against Russia if it topples the Georgian government and/or conquers Georgia completely.  With an expanding modern army in China and the best trained/equipped military in the US (backed by NATO), Russia could not afford a full-scale war. 

However, we'd need to find out a way to get Russia to stand down without escalating the battle.  They want South Ossetia to break away from Georgia to provide some sort of buffer against Georgia if they were to join NATO.  You could propose that Georgia set up South Ossetia as a neutral zone, creating a "Switzerland" in Asia.  If this works for Russia, then they might go along with it.  But as a deal, Russia must financially compensate Georgia and the new nation of South Ossetia for the damage they inflicted on the countries for starting an unprovoked war.

[Хahar 🤔]

That'd be a good strategy. But Saakashvili wouldn't stand for it.

[Flying Dog]

That'd be a good strategy. But Saakashvili wouldn't stand for it.

Well, he's an idiot anyways.

[Torie]

South Ossetia hardly looks like a bugger zone to me. It is not what this is about.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

It's  not me to say what US should or shouldn't do.

But if it intervene by military ways, everyone can imagine (or not) how far it could go, especially if there is not a clear mission, a clear mission which could be: "we intervene to put Russia out of the official territory of Georgia", but even here, you can start with a clear mission and you don't know how far it can go...

On the other hand, if US (and NATO/EU) continue to do what they do, quite nothing, they show a weakness which could encourage its "enemies" to be less afraid of it, and its allies, especially the small countries, to lose some trust in the ability of the US to protect them.

Well, each decision is a double edge sword, but for sure the first one could involve far more huge hard consequences than the second one...

[Flying Dog]

We already helped them, kind of. We airlifting their 2,000 troops from Iraq essentially into the conflict zone. Oh Putin had a hissy-fit about that one.

[dead0man]

We already helped them, kind of. We airlifting their 2,000 troops from Iraq essentially into the conflict zone. Oh Putin had a hissy-fit about that one.

And that's pissed Putin off.

We've been giving them aid and more importantly, training since 2002.  cite

This war isn't about Ossetia.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

We should help Georgia, yes.  Limiting our help to good old fashioned diplomacy, of course.

     This. We need to put our foot down & say that we will not stand for Russia bullying its neighbors.

     We can take the boring route & impose economic sanctions, or we could be total assholes & fasttrack every one of their neighbors into NATO.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Daniel Adams]

Yes. Directly engaring our military against Russia isn't the only type of help we can give Georgia, and that should probably be a very last resort. However, what we're doing now isn't enough. Georgia has been our loyal ally and is a strong democracy. Besides, if Russia succeeds in occupying Georgia, none of its neighbors is safe, and, in the long run, neither is America.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Yes. Directly engaring our military against Russia isn't the only type of help we can give Georgia, and that should probably be a very last resort. However, what we're doing now isn't enough. Georgia has been our loyal ally and is a strong democracy. Besides, if Russia succeeds in occupying Georgia, none of its neighbors is safe, and, in the long run, neither is America.

I very much agree.  I don't think we can really afford to offer military help to Georgia right now, but we cannot let Russia win this conflict.

[Hash]

You guys are acting like Russia is this big power country, It's not. Russia can't afford to piss us(USA) off. We can blow them off the face of the Earth if we really wanted to. The US have so many things that we don't even know of, and things we can only dream of. Come one guys think.

Russia has something called nuclear weapons. Maybe you've heard of them? They do big booms and big boo-booes. They be bad. In addition, Russia isn't classy. They're not as scared as other countries are to use them.

Oh, and starting a nuclear war is such a good idea!


As to the poll.

Yes they should help Georgia. But it's not a, uhm, good idea to piss off Russia. I think any government understands that. I propose something called diplomacy.

On a side note, David Emerson is being utterly incompetent in this affair. I didn't hear him once on this issue. It seems like the Tories just can't get over incompetency.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Georgia has been our loyal ally and is a strong democracy.

That's not what I remember of the comments of the West watchers of the last georgian elections...

[Beet]

Georgia has been our loyal ally and is a strong democracy.

That's not what I remember of the comments of the West watchers of the last georgian elections...

Regardless, Russia has turned from democracy toward authoritarianism, and the success of the Russian and Chinese states (on full display this week) in contrast to the listlessness of the West looks very bad for democracy. And, this is a stick I'm going to be beating for awhile, but the discussion only reinforces what we've learned in Iraq-- shows the utter bankruptcy of the neoconservative reliance on hard power alone. No matter how many weapons we sell to Georgia, they will never be able to turn back Russia.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

and the success of the Russian and Chinese states (on full display this week) in contrast to the listlessness of the West looks very bad for democracy.

whut

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

and the success of the Russian and Chinese states (on full display this week) in contrast to the listlessness of the West looks very bad for democracy.

Agreed. The show of force is more and more "in"...

[Beet]

and the success of the Russian and Chinese states (on full display this week) in contrast to the listlessness of the West looks very bad for democracy.

whut

Very informative as usual, Al

I'm not happy to characterize it this way but I am concerned. A lot of countries around the world, while deeply committed to their freedoms, are nonetheless frustrated at the problems of democratic governance. In these places, particularly developing nations, the efficiency of autocratic or semi-autocratic government looks attractive compared to what appears to be their own democratic inefficiency. Democrats (small d) should at least be aware of the benefits, I would argue need, not only of speaking of the virtues of freedom but also making and pointing to successful examples of free states. The West itself is not the best example because non-Westerners see Western countries as already having "arrived" and thus our experience does not apply to them...

[Daniel Adams]

Georgia has been our loyal ally and is a strong democracy.

That's not what I remember of the comments of the West watchers of the last georgian elections...

Could you provide a cite?

[Josh/Devilman88]

You guys are acting like Russia is this big power country, It's not. Russia can't afford to piss us(USA) off. We can blow them off the face of the Earth if we really wanted to. The US have so many things that we don't even know of, and things we can only dream of. Come one guys think.

Russia has something called nuclear weapons. Maybe you've heard of them? They do big booms and big boo-booes. They be bad. In addition, Russia isn't classy. They're not as scared as other countries are to use them.

Oh, and starting a nuclear war is such a good idea!


As to the poll.

Yes they should help Georgia. But it's not a, uhm, good idea to piss off Russia. I think any government understands that. I propose something called diplomacy.

On a side note, David Emerson is being utterly incompetent in this affair. I didn't hear him once on this issue. It seems like the Tories just can't get over incompetency.

And so does the United States, and we have more.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Josh, are you seriously advocating open warfare with Russia?  My G-d, man, even I don't support that!  We cannot afford to go to war with Russia; it would end up being very bad for us.

[Beet]

Georgia has been our loyal ally and is a strong democracy.

That's not what I remember of the comments of the West watchers of the last georgian elections...

Could you provide a cite?

It's on wikipedia:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This reflects another wider problem facing democrats:
The large number of disputed elections wherein the opposition claims fraud (the US no exception, sadly; Democrats would do well not to make such unsubstantiated claims; for in the long run it undermines the legitimacy of the system; on the other hand, we would do well to adopt a national popular vote as well), and international observers must be called in. But then again, those international observers may not be unbiased.

[Josh/Devilman88]

Josh, are you seriously advocating open warfare with Russia?  My G-d, man, even I don't support that!  We cannot afford to go to war with Russia; it would end up being very bad for us.

No, I'm not. The last thing I want is war with Russia. But we can't sit on our butts and not do anything. But I believe WWIII is going to happen if we want it or not, it just how and when the US wants to play a part in it.

[Colin]

Hell no. First off I really don't want my country pissing off the Russians, secondly what's really the worst thing, realistically, the Russians can do? They aren't going to annex Georgia, since that would piss off the international community mightily and would probably give Putin a nice Chechnya style quagmire to shoot himself in the foot with. The most that they can do is lead to the fall of the Saakashvili government, and support the rise of some Shevardnadze-esque leadership. What's most likely to happen is that the country would return to a status quo ante bellum with improved protections for the South Ossetians from the Georgian government and an incredibly scared Saakashvili retaining power for at least the next couple of years. There might be some economic concessions, such as the creation of a Russian interest in some of the Caspian Sea oil pipelines, but that's about all I can imagine the Russians pulling for.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Josh, are you seriously advocating open warfare with Russia?  My G-d, man, even I don't support that!  We cannot afford to go to war with Russia; it would end up being very bad for us.

No, I'm not. The last thing I want is war with Russia. But we can't sit on our butts and not do anything. But I believe WWIII is going to happen if we want it or not, it just how and when the US wants to play a part in it.

It's called diplomacy, Josh.  And what makes you so sure WWIII is coming?

[King]

Josh, are you seriously advocating open warfare with Russia?  My G-d, man, even I don't support that!  We cannot afford to go to war with Russia; it would end up being very bad for us.

No, I'm not. The last thing I want is war with Russia. But we can't sit on our butts and not do anything. But I believe WWIII is going to happen if we want it or not, it just how and when the US wants to play a part in it.

Josh, how exactly would we help Georgia using military force without going to war with Russia?

[Daniel Adams]

It's on wikipedia:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This reflects another wider problem facing democrats:
The large number of disputed elections wherein the opposition claims fraud (the US no exception, sadly; Democrats would do well not to make such unsubstantiated claims; for in the long run it undermines the legitimacy of the system; on the other hand, we would do well to adopt a national popular vote as well), and international observers must be called in. But then again, those international observers may not be unbiased.

Thank you. I should've done my homework before declaring George a "strong democracy" and I stand corrected.

However, it is still a fact that Georgia is a satisfactory liberal democracy, and it is the only former Soviet state in Asia that has embraced liberal democracy.