Should the USA help Georgia?

[Хahar 🤔]

First, Xahar is always a fervent opponent of those who oppose tyranny.  Now, he will deny being supportive of tyranny, its just that he's opposed to anyone who is opposed to tyranny.  If you believe his lies, well, there's a bridge I'm sure you'd be interested in buying....

I'd hope you'd look at more than one incident before judging me.

I am a realist. I'll pick my battles. This is not a battle worth fighting.

I am not a supporter of Putinist tyranny. In fact, if you look, I am a supporter of the only real anti-Putin party, the KPRF. But I realize that it is folly to intervene where intervention is not called for. And I realize that there are far greater tyrannies to be fought.

So you seriously wouldn't support giving economic aid to the Georgians as well as some military aid because it is "imperialist"? If so, wow.....

Oh, sure, economic aid I'll give. But to give military aid is stupid.

Giving them "economic aid" is stupid as they don't need it.  Denying them the means to defend themselves is, well, Xahar (stupid + immoral).

I fail to see where it is stupid not to provoke the bear.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I hate Russia. I used to just dislike it, now I hate it.

Dmitry Medvesh**t accepted the truce yesterday himself.

     Same here, same here. Putin is a common KGB thug.

[CARLHAYDEN]

First, Xahar is always a fervent opponent of those who oppose tyranny.  Now, he will deny being supportive of tyranny, its just that he's opposed to anyone who is opposed to tyranny.  If you believe his lies, well, there's a bridge I'm sure you'd be interested in buying....

I'd hope you'd look at more than one incident before judging me.

I am a realist. I'll pick my battles. This is not a battle worth fighting.

I am not a supporter of Putinist tyranny. In fact, if you look, I am a supporter of the only real anti-Putin party, the KPRF. But I realize that it is folly to intervene where intervention is not called for. And I realize that there are far greater tyrannies to be fought.

So you seriously wouldn't support giving economic aid to the Georgians as well as some military aid because it is "imperialist"? If so, wow.....

Oh, sure, economic aid I'll give. But to give military aid is stupid.

Giving them "economic aid" is stupid as they don't need it.  Denying them the means to defend themselves is, well, Xahar (stupid + immoral).

I fail to see where it is stupid not to provoke the bear.

You are not only ignorant and many things, you fail to comprehend basic concepts.  To you opposing agression is a provocation.  And you would never oppose agression.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Now you never used the word "good," but you clearly implied it by stating that "Russia is just taking them behind the wordshed for it>'

I'm not sure which part of your diseased mind can make my statement of fact into a declaration of an opinion of admiration.

You aren't sure about a lot of things, and it may be that you are projecting your own problems on others.

I repeat, you did alledge that Georgia was the party which started the conflict and your statement about the Russians merely taking them behind the woodshed is a statement of defense of the Russians.

[Хahar 🤔]

First, Xahar is always a fervent opponent of those who oppose tyranny.  Now, he will deny being supportive of tyranny, its just that he's opposed to anyone who is opposed to tyranny.  If you believe his lies, well, there's a bridge I'm sure you'd be interested in buying....

I'd hope you'd look at more than one incident before judging me.

I am a realist. I'll pick my battles. This is not a battle worth fighting.

I am not a supporter of Putinist tyranny. In fact, if you look, I am a supporter of the only real anti-Putin party, the KPRF. But I realize that it is folly to intervene where intervention is not called for. And I realize that there are far greater tyrannies to be fought.

So you seriously wouldn't support giving economic aid to the Georgians as well as some military aid because it is "imperialist"? If so, wow.....

Oh, sure, economic aid I'll give. But to give military aid is stupid.

Giving them "economic aid" is stupid as they don't need it.  Denying them the means to defend themselves is, well, Xahar (stupid + immoral).

I fail to see where it is stupid not to provoke the bear.

You are not only ignorant and many things, you fail to comprehend basic concepts.  To you opposing agression is a provocation.  And you would never oppose agression.

And you, on the other hand, are overly idealistic.

[CARLHAYDEN]

You are not only ignorant and many things, you fail to comprehend basic concepts.  To you opposing agression is a provocation.  And you would never oppose agression.
[/quote]

And you, on the other hand, are overly idealistic.
[/quote]

Actually quite practical.

The invasion of Georgia was a test, much as Hitler's occupation of the Saar was a test.

When Hitler occupied the Saar in contravention of the Versailles treaty, if the French/British had opposed his occupation, he would have had to retreat, and we would have avoided the carnage of world war 2.

The French and British failed the test, with the horrible results.

It looks to me like the United States, under the feckless GW Bush, has also failed the test.

This will only embolden the Russians to continue on their course of agression.

Putting out a fire while it is small, seems more intelligent that waiting until it is a blazing inferno engulfing the world.

[Jake]

Hitler c.1934-36 actually was a "small fire"; very little military, no modern weapons, poor training, etc. Russia c.2008 certainly is not a "small fire". It's not possible to "put out the fire" right now without at the very least starting a major regional war.

As to your post above, there still is not a consensus on who fired the first shots, except that it was not the Russians (South Ossetians maybe, Georgians maybe), but it certainly was the Georgians who actually crossed the South Ossetian border (not that they committed the first acts of war, those have been ongoing for a decade plus). That was the first mis-step they made. Saakashvili severly miscalculated what Russia would actually do in response to him actually entering South Ossetia. That his nation is being defeated because of that is NOT cause for the United States to spend money, arms, and/or blood in a war.

Again, to say I'm cheerleading for anything but the war ending as soon as possible and without the committment of US assets is a personal attack and will be reported as such.

[Conan]

I wonder if the opening of an American military base is under consideration.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Hitler c.1934-36 actually was a "small fire"; very little military, no modern weapons, poor training, etc. Russia c.2008 certainly is not a "small fire". It's not possible to "put out the fire" right now without at the very least starting a major regional war.

As to your post above, there still is not a consensus on who fired the first shots, except that it was not the Russians (South Ossetians maybe, Georgians maybe), but it certainly was the Georgians who actually crossed the South Ossetian border (not that they committed the first acts of war, those have been ongoing for a decade plus). That was the first mis-step they made. Saakashvili severly miscalculated what Russia would actually do in response to him actually entering South Ossetia. That his nation is being defeated because of that is NOT cause for the United States to spend money, arms, and/or blood in a war.

Again, to say I'm cheerleading for anything but the war ending as soon as possible and without the committment of US assets is a personal attack and will be reported as such.

An excerpt from a recent Times article by Richard Beeston:

"For all its big-power bluster, Russia is weak and vulnerable. Russian tanks and aircraft may have smashed the fledgling Georgian Army with ease, but most of the weaponry was Cold War-era and many of the troops conscripts. Anyone who has seen the Russian Army operating in the Caucasus knows that the military will need a generation to modernise."

I'd rather not wait while Putin moves forward to his next conquest (most experts think the Ukraine, but I suspect it will be Byelorussia).  I think he'll take another page out of Hitler's manual for conquest, and make the "absorption" of Byelorussia an "anschluss."  So, you have some time to get ready for the defense of Putin's next step.

[TeePee4Prez]

Hell no (D).

You silly idealists think that we can afford to piss off Russia.

Exactly ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You guys are acting like Russia is this big power country, It's not. Russia can't afford to piss us(USA) off. We can blow them off the face of the Earth if we really wanted to. The US have so many things that we don't even know of, and things we can only dream of. Come one guys think.

Wanna bet?  Just ask Hitler and Napoleon about Russia.  Oh wait!  We're having trouble with measly Iraq let alone Russia.  If the US never invaded on D-Day, the USSR would have the Red Army flag flying over the English Channel.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Flyers,

While the Russians are very effective in ground defense, they're not so hot on long range offense.

No need to attack Russia, just adequately arm and train potential victims of Russian agression so they can defend themselves.

[Person Man]

Flyers,

While the Russians are very effective in ground defense, they're not so hot on long range offense.

No need to attack Russia, just adequately arm and train potential victims of Russian agression so they can defend themselves.

We really need to pick our allies better this time, though.

[dead0man]

Yeah, we need people that won't get pissed off when we turn our backs to them.

[Хahar 🤔]

Flyers,

While the Russians are very effective in ground defense, they're not so hot on long range offense.

No need to attack Russia, just adequately arm and train potential victims of Russian agression so they can defend themselves.

That sounds reasonable. But what you were suggesting before was full-scale engagement.

[HappyWarrior]

The time has come to stop Putin and his mad grab for power.  If he continues his invasion into soverign Georgian territory we should threaten to enter militarily, and if he fails to comply DO IT!  The time has come to stop wussing out againest the Russians.  I'm not saying an invasion, only assisting in Georgia's defense.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Flyers,

While the Russians are very effective in ground defense, they're not so hot on long range offense.

No need to attack Russia, just adequately arm and train potential victims of Russian agression so they can defend themselves.

That sounds reasonable. But what you were suggesting before was full-scale engagement.

I never suggested that the United States deploy troops in Georgia!

Please explain where you got that idea from?

[Хahar 🤔]

Flyers,

While the Russians are very effective in ground defense, they're not so hot on long range offense.

No need to attack Russia, just adequately arm and train potential victims of Russian agression so they can defend themselves.

That sounds reasonable. But what you were suggesting before was full-scale engagement.

I never suggested that the United States deploy troops in Georgia!

Please explain where you got that idea from?

That's what I understood your comments to mean.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Flyers,

While the Russians are very effective in ground defense, they're not so hot on long range offense.

No need to attack Russia, just adequately arm and train potential victims of Russian aggression so they can defend themselves.

That sounds reasonable. But what you were suggesting before was full-scale engagement.

I never suggested that the United States deploy troops in Georgia!

Please explain where you got that idea from?

That's what I understood your comments to mean.

OK.

So i didn't "suggest" what you previously alledged I suggested, but rather you simply misunderstood what I had posted.

[Хahar 🤔]

Flyers,

While the Russians are very effective in ground defense, they're not so hot on long range offense.

No need to attack Russia, just adequately arm and train potential victims of Russian aggression so they can defend themselves.

That sounds reasonable. But what you were suggesting before was full-scale engagement.

I never suggested that the United States deploy troops in Georgia!

Please explain where you got that idea from?

That's what I understood your comments to mean.

OK.

So i didn't "suggest" what you previously alledged I suggested, but rather you simply misunderstood what I had posted.

Yes.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Flyers,

While the Russians are very effective in ground defense, they're not so hot on long range offense.

No need to attack Russia, just adequately arm and train potential victims of Russian aggression so they can defend themselves.

That sounds reasonable. But what you were suggesting before was full-scale engagement.

I never suggested that the United States deploy troops in Georgia!

Please explain where you got that idea from?

That's what I understood your comments to mean.

OK.

So i didn't "suggest" what you previously alledged I suggested, but rather you simply misunderstood what I had posted.

Yes.

Thank you!

[??????????]

The time has come to stop Putin and his mad grab for power.  If he continues his invasion into soverign Georgian territory we should threaten to enter militarily, and if he fails to comply DO IT!  The time has come to stop wussing out againest the Russians.  I'm not saying an invasion, only assisting in Georgia's defense.

And you're voting for Obama, why?

[Associate Justice PiT]

The time has come to stop Putin and his mad grab for power.  If he continues his invasion into soverign Georgian territory we should threaten to enter militarily, and if he fails to comply DO IT!  The time has come to stop wussing out againest the Russians.  I'm not saying an invasion, only assisting in Georgia's defense.

And you're voting for Obama, why?

     Maybe he'll change to support McCain now.

[HappyWarrior]

The time has come to stop Putin and his mad grab for power.  If he continues his invasion into soverign Georgian territory we should threaten to enter militarily, and if he fails to comply DO IT!  The time has come to stop wussing out againest the Russians.  I'm not saying an invasion, only assisting in Georgia's defense.

And you're voting for Obama, why?

I like all of his other policies.  Plus I think once he gets in office situations will force him to be more of a hawk.

[CARLHAYDEN]

The cease fire was agreed to on Tuesday, since then the Russians have continued their aggression.

-----

Russian convoy moves deeper inside Georgia: witness
Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:59pm EDT   
By James Kilner

IGOETI, Georgia (Reuters) - A Russian military convoy advanced to within 55 km (34 miles) of Tbilisi on Friday, a Reuters witness said, in the deepest incursion since conflict with Georgia erupted last week.

The advance by some 17 armored personnel carriers (APCs) and about 200 soldiers coincided with a visit by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to secure Georgia's signature on a French-brokered peace plan to end the fighting.

Initially 10 APCs moved along the main highway from the Russian-occupied town of Gori, 25 km (15 miles) from breakaway South Ossetia, before stopping in the village of Igoeti. Several APCs headed down side roads and seven more arrived later.

The exact mission of the incursion was not clear.

At a news conference after President Mikheil Saakashvili signed the agreement, Rice called for the immediate withdrawal of Russian forces.

The vehicles advanced unimpeded by Georgian police and army stationed along the road. A Reuters correspondent saw a military ambulance, snipers and rocket-propelled grenades.

The convoy was initially shadowed by three low-flying Russian combat helicopters, which later left.

Russian troops this week pushed out of South Ossetia as far as Gori in a counter-offensive to drive out Georgian forces who had tried to recapture the separatist South Ossetia region.

Moscow declared a halt on Tuesday to military action but says it is securing Georgian military installations and abandoned arms dumps.

On Thursday, Russian troops were spotted in Gori, the Black Sea port of Poti, and the western town of Zugdidi, which lies near another breakaway region, Abkhazia.

Georgia has been calling for the Russian troops to pull back from Gori, alleging that irregular militias from over the border in the North Caucasus have moved in behind them and are looting and burning Georgian villages.

(Writing by Matt Robinson; Editing by Angus MacSwan)

[Daniel Adams]

At last Bush is showing some sings of caring about Georgia, even though its too little too late. The missile interceptor base deal with Poland sure got the Russians angry though. Charles Krauthammer has some great ideas on how to punish Russia without direct military intervention beyond admitting Georgia and Ukraine to NATO.