So Russia and Georgia just went to war

[Associate Justice PiT]

That's right, it seems that Caucasian borders have been created to create problems...

As were those in Africa...

     & in the Middle East.

[GMantis]

To be fair saying Georgia started this, while true in the limited sense, ignores the fact that Russia began it when it supported the secession of Georgian territory in 1993. Georgia is quite simply, asserting its sovereignty within its internationally recognized borders.

And this in turn ignores the fact that the Georgians started by removing the autonomy of Ossetia, aterritory in which the Ossetians had a 2/3 majority.

Do they even have a reason? You can't just suddenly invade a country.

How stupid is Putin?

The hypocrisy of some people is really unbelievable.

[??????????]

I'm personally rooting for Georgia.

<~~~~~

[Meeker]

Do they even have a reason? You can't just suddenly invade a country.

How stupid is Putin?

The hypocrisy of some people is really unbelievable.

... how so?

[Hash]

I'm personally rooting for Georgia.

<~~~~~

That's actually the old flag of Georgia.

[AkSaber]

My brother read that Russia could have staged this purposely during the Olympics because most of the world leaders are in Beijing. Anyone think it's possible?

[StateBoiler]

My brother read that Russia could have staged this purposely during the Olympics because most of the world leaders are in Beijing. Anyone think it's possible?

Based on what I've read from various websites, I think the Georgians and South Ossetians were skirmishing for a week. It could be that the Russians just decided to respond this time and help their "friends", and all the world leaders are in Beijing, which one must admit is a nice side effect, although to be honest I think most of them have cell phones.

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Listen to the Georgian President talk, you can tell this guy's an idiot. Him and his information minister are doing impersonations of Baghdad Bob.

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So let's get this straight, this is a breakaway region you haven't controlled for 15 years because you got stalemated by the "awesome firepower" of the South Ossetian military, and add on to that now you have superior Russian aircraft shooting at you and the Russian military involved (who have a bit more firepower, manpower, and expertise than South Ossetia), yet you still managed to gain back every town but one within a day? Sure. Imbecile.

[Daniel Adams]

Listen to the Georgian President talk, you can tell this guy's an idiot. Him and his information minister are doing impersonations of Baghdad Bob.

What the hell do you want him to do? Admit all is lost and surrender to Russia?

[StateBoiler]

Listen to the Georgian President talk, you can tell this guy's an idiot. Him and his information minister are doing impersonations of Baghdad Bob.

What the hell do you want him to do? Admit all is lost and surrender to Russia?

No, just be honest and not be Baghdad Bob.

The only way Georgia will ever control South Ossetia and Abkhazia (the other breakaway republic from Georgia that is sympathetic to Russia) is with long-term NATO involvement and a significant military investment on our part and the European Union.

Russia is the United States military in this conflict. Georgia is the Iraq military. Per the CIA World Factbook, Russia has 1 million standing troops. Georgia has 17,500.

He should just be realistic by not stating he controls nearly the entirety of the territory when anyone that knows anything about military geopolitics in the world can see in 5 seconds he's lying. If you're a CIA of State Department official, it would make you take a pause before working with the guy. If he can't grasp reality, would you commit resources to him? So he's really doing nothing but hurting his country and his countrymen with such statements. If this conflict goes on as it is currently, the best end result he can hope for is Russia loses interest in fighting and it ends in a stalemate. The Georgian President can then claim victory by not suffering total defeat, similar to Hezbollah when they fought Israel in the July War. He's been itching to fight Russia for awhile now, he finally got his wish.

If anyone is interested, here's a comprohensive list of news articles on the conflict and some background information on South Ossetia from The Small Wars Journal.

http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2008/08/flash-point-south-ossetia/

[StateBoiler]

If we really want to spread blame around, Stalin started it. After all, Ossetia was not a part of Georgia until he shoved it into the Georgian SSR.

That would mean Franklin Roosevelt instigated the Korean War though.

Factoid I saw, this is the Kremlin's first deployment of Russian soldiers in a conflict in a foreign country since before the Soviet Union dissolved. Their last deployment was in 1989 when they were pulling out of Afghanistan, 19 years ago.

[Daniel Adams]

Listen to the Georgian President talk, you can tell this guy's an idiot. Him and his information minister are doing impersonations of Baghdad Bob.

What the hell do you want him to do? Admit all is lost and surrender to Russia?

No, just be honest and not be Baghdad Bob.

The only way Georgia will ever control South Ossetia and Abkhazia (the other breakaway republic from Georgia that is sympathetic to Russia) is with long-term NATO involvement and a significant military investment on our part and the European Union.

Russia is the United States military in this conflict. Georgia is the Iraq military. Per the CIA World Factbook, Russia has 1 million standing troops. Georgia has 17,500.

He should just be realistic by not stating he controls nearly the entirety of the territory when anyone that knows anything about military geopolitics in the world can see in 5 seconds he's lying. If you're a CIA of State Department official, it would make you take a pause before working with the guy. If he can't grasp reality, would you commit resources to him? So he's really doing nothing but hurting his country and his countrymen with such statements. If this conflict goes on as it is currently, the best end result he can hope for is Russia loses interest in fighting and it ends in a stalemate.

I think he's trying to reassure a nation faced by overwhelming odds and doubt he actually believes he controls South Ossetia. I'm sure he can grasp reality just fine.

Your last sentence is incredibly naïve. Putin's Russia has imperial ambitions and hates Georgia for allying itself with the West. It's unimaginable that Russia will suddently lose interest in fighting a county it has had tensions with since Saakashvili got to power. Russia will not settle for anything less than a humiliating defeat for Georgia and will probably force it to surrender not only South Ossetia but Abkhazia as well.

[StateBoiler]

Listen to the Georgian President talk, you can tell this guy's an idiot. Him and his information minister are doing impersonations of Baghdad Bob.

What the hell do you want him to do? Admit all is lost and surrender to Russia?

No, just be honest and not be Baghdad Bob.

The only way Georgia will ever control South Ossetia and Abkhazia (the other breakaway republic from Georgia that is sympathetic to Russia) is with long-term NATO involvement and a significant military investment on our part and the European Union.

Russia is the United States military in this conflict. Georgia is the Iraq military. Per the CIA World Factbook, Russia has 1 million standing troops. Georgia has 17,500.

He should just be realistic by not stating he controls nearly the entirety of the territory when anyone that knows anything about military geopolitics in the world can see in 5 seconds he's lying. If you're a CIA of State Department official, it would make you take a pause before working with the guy. If he can't grasp reality, would you commit resources to him? So he's really doing nothing but hurting his country and his countrymen with such statements. If this conflict goes on as it is currently, the best end result he can hope for is Russia loses interest in fighting and it ends in a stalemate.

I think he's trying to reassure a nation faced by overwhelming odds and doubt he actually believes he controls South Ossetia. I'm sure he can grasp reality just fine.

Your last sentence is incredibly naïve. Putin's Russia has imperial ambitions and hates Georgia for allying itself with the West. It's unimaginable that Russia will suddently lose interest in fighting a county it has had tensions with since Saakashvili got to power. Russia will not settle for anything less than a humiliating defeat for Georgia and will probably force it to surrender not only South Ossetia but Abkhazia as well.

I don't blame him if he wants to instill confidence. But you don't do that by lying to the population and your soldiers.

Saakashvili is about to learn the first law of a Chicago Street Fight: "If you can talk the talk, you better be able to walk the walk." Regardless of whether the Georgian President likes it or not, his neighbor is Russia, they have better equipment, more manpower, and are itching to get back to being a world power. His actions are about as stupid as if Mongolia ever wanted to pick a fight with China. And that's what he did, he picked a fight with Russia, and he got it.

And Georgia doesn't have South Ossetia or Abkhazia, and hasn't for more than 15 years now. That's reality. Just like Serbia doesn't have Kosovo anymore. That's reality.

Don't get me wrong, I wish them the best. But what they did makes as much sense as me picking a fight with Mike Tyson.

[Daniel Adams]

Saakashvili is about to learn the first law of a Chicago Street Fight: "If you can talk the talk, you better be able to walk the walk." Regardless of whether the Georgian President likes it or not, his neighbor is Russia, they have better equipment, more manpower, and are itching to get back to being a world power. His actions are about as stupid as if Mongolia ever wanted to pick a fight with China. And that's what he did, he picked a fight with Russia, and he got it.

And Georgia doesn't have South Ossetia or Abkhazia, and hasn't for more than 15 years now. That's reality. Just like Serbia doesn't have Kosovo anymore. That's reality.

I'm sorry, Georgia picked a fight with Russia?! Even a cursory examination of the history of the conflict quickly reveals it has been Russia which has been bullying Georgia since the latter decided to freely elect a pro-Western president. Russia has been commiting blatant acts of war against Georgia for well over a year now and Georgia has not adequately retaliated precisely because it knew it doesn't stand a chance against Russia. But it was only a matter of time before Russia opted for an all-out invasion.

Now that it has invaded, Russia will want to eliminate the thorn Saakashvili was. Whether it does this by humiliating Georgia enough to ensure his defeat in the next election or by more violent means remains to be seen.

[Dan the Roman]

I think part of the problem on this thread is that we are treating South Ossetia and to a lesser extent Abkhazia as real countries. They are not nor are they normal ethnic enclaves. They are basically mafia regimes that have been kept in power by Russian military force since 1992.  There is no evidence these regimes have any real popular support and I would not be shocked if South Ossetia did in fact nearly collapse in a day without Russian military intervention.

The real problem is that Georgia has decided to call Russia's bluff, only to discover it is not actually a bluff. To withdraw now would be worse than to have never gone in. That at least would have maintained the fiction that Georgia could assert its authority if it wanted to. Backing down now would demonstrate that for practical purposes these territories are independent, and no Georgian leader can do that. Most likely, Saakashvili  is going to stand firm and pray that Bush gives him a face saving way to back down.

[StateBoiler]

Russia has been commiting blatant acts of war against Georgia for well over a year now and Georgia has not adequately retaliated precisely because it knew it doesn't stand a chance against Russia. But it was only a matter of time before Russia opted for an all-out invasion.

You don't read the news do you?

This is the Fox News article:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,400741,00.html

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Rebels would be South Ossetian nationals, and Georgia was responding to those; so the original instigator was not from Russia, per Fox News.

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This is an article from American media, and in this case on Fox News' website.

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Exactly. I've lost a number of poker games this way.

[2952-0-0]

In A.D. 2008

War was beginning.

Saakashvili: What happen ?

Georgian Military Commander: Somebody set up us the bomb.

Secretary: We get signal.

Saakashvili: What !

Secretary: Main screen turn on.

Saakashvili: It's you !!

Putin: How are you gentlemen !!

Putin: All your base are belong to us.

Putin: You are on the way to destruction.

Saakashvili: What you say !!

Putin: You have no chance to survive make your time.

Putin: Ha ha ha ha ....

Secretary: Captain !! *

Saakashvili: Take off every 'MiG'!!

Saakashvili: You know what you doing.

Saakashvili: Move 'MiG'.

Saakashvili: For great justice.

[Daniel Adams]

Russia has been commiting blatant acts of war against Georgia for well over a year now and Georgia has not adequately retaliated precisely because it knew it doesn't stand a chance against Russia. But it was only a matter of time before Russia opted for an all-out invasion.

You don't read the news do you?

You have no background knowledge on the situation except what brief news articles give you, don't you?

[StateBoiler]

Russia has been commiting blatant acts of war against Georgia for well over a year now and Georgia has not adequately retaliated precisely because it knew it doesn't stand a chance against Russia. But it was only a matter of time before Russia opted for an all-out invasion.

You don't read the news do you?

You have no background knowledge on the situation except what brief news articles give you, don't you?

On the contrary, I love geopolitics and I read up on it a good bit. The whole chess game nature of it has always interested me.

[Daniel Adams]

Russia has been commiting blatant acts of war against Georgia for well over a year now and Georgia has not adequately retaliated precisely because it knew it doesn't stand a chance against Russia. But it was only a matter of time before Russia opted for an all-out invasion.

You don't read the news do you?

You have no background knowledge on the situation except what brief news articles give you, don't you?

No, I love geopolitics. It's an interest of mine.

Then actually explain what's factually wrong with my statement instead of offering sardonic little questions, I prithee.

[StateBoiler]

In A.D. 2008

War was beginning.

Saakashvili: What happen ?

Georgian Military Commander: Somebody set up us the bomb.

Secretary: We get signal.

Saakashvili: What !

Secretary: Main screen turn on.

Saakashvili: It's you !!

Putin: How are you gentlemen !!

Putin: All your base are belong to us.

Putin: You are on the way to destruction.

Saakashvili: What you say !!

Putin: You have no chance to survive make your time.

Putin: Ha ha ha ha ....

Secretary: Captain !! *

Saakashvili: Take off every 'MiG'!!

Saakashvili: You know what you doing.

Saakashvili: Move 'MiG'.

Saakashvili: For great justice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4AuN6pN1kY

Gotta love the Japanese.

[Robespierre's Jaw]

I've only heard about this story moments ago and I shall follow it closely throughout the day.

BREAKING NEWS - Apparently Russia's hopes of "War" with Georgia could be dashed due to NATO entry plans. More on that story can be found here.

[The Mikado]

Time for problematic semiaccurate historical comparisons...my forte.

This reminds me of the recent Israel-Hezbollah War (Summer 2006).  Of course, Russia is a far more influential country than Israel, but hear me out.  Just like the 2006 war, Putin has a limited amount of time to accomplish his goals before the international community is forced to act.  He needs to make South Ossetian "independence" a reality before the war ends.  He needs to scare Saakashvilli well enough that Georgia will shy away from opposing Russian interests.  He needs to reassert his hegemony over the Caucasus.  If he can do all of this within the next few days, this will be a decisive Russian victory.  If he can't, the international community will be forced to "act."

[War on Want]

Time for problematic semiaccurate historical comparisons...my forte.

This reminds me of the recent Israel-Hezbollah War (Summer 2006).  Of course, Russia is a far more influential country than Israel, but hear me out.  Just like the 2006 war, Putin has a limited amount of time to accomplish his goals before the international community is forced to act.  He needs to make South Ossetian "independence" a reality before the war ends.  He needs to scare Saakashvilli well enough that Georgia will shy away from opposing Russian interests.  He needs to reassert his hegemony over the Caucasus.  If he can do all of this within the next few days, this will be a decisive Russian victory.  If he can't, the international community will be forced to "act."

Woah that is exactly what I though of but I didn't post about it.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm no big fan of Saakashvili. He overthrew an authoritarian President only to head down the same path.

However he is completely correct here in the stand against the Russian imperialist pigs. Georgia has my full support.

As for South Ossetia not supporting the Georgian presence there, duh. Of course that's going to be the case after they ethnically cleansed all the ethnic Georgians living there with the assistance of Russia. Now the imperialist pigs are getting greedy again.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I'm personally rooting for Georgia.

I see that you're supporting your fellow crackers.