The White House

[Torie]

Joy from this quarter. Drill baby drill. We can put in such environmental safeguards and indemnity clauses as needed.

[Хahar 🤔]

Joy from this quarter. Drill baby drill. We can put in such environmental safeguards and indemnity clauses as needed.

What's the point? It'll be 2030 before it has an effect.

[Torie]

Joy from this quarter. Drill baby drill. We can put in such environmental safeguards and indemnity clauses as needed.

What's the point? It'll be 2030 before it has an effect.

Is that a fact?  Don't you read my posts?  And I thought it was 8 years per the usual suspects who don't understand the connection between futures markets and spot prices, and now you say it is 22 years.

The upside is that if it is 22 years, the roads will be cleared out for me to drive until "The Man" takes away my license, if I am still alive.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

OFFICIAL STATEMENT
7 Aug 2008, The White House

The President continues to monitor the situation in the Southeast and its impending secession vote.  It has been and remains the position of the White House that it is of the highest priority that our union be preserved.

First and formost, the government of Atlasia will in no way recognize the upcoming vote in the Southeast as legitimate.  The region shall remain a part of Atlasia regardless of the result of the vote.

Secondly, it is the opinion of this administration that secession from the Republic of Atlasia constitutes treason under the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act.  The government will not hesitate to seek the prosecution of responsible parties in this act of rebellion.

In the meantime, the President encourages the residents of the Southeast to protect their own rights and reject the efforts of a small minority that wishes to destroy our union.

[DownWithTheLeft]

We have no wishes to destroy the Union and would call the vote to a halt immediatley if regional senate rights were preserved.  Otherwise, there is no reason in having the simulation anyway as region will be completely pointless, so we will continue as planned.

[Associate Justice PiT]

We have no wishes to destroy the Union and would call the vote to a halt immediatley if regional senate rights were preserved.  Otherwise, there is no reason in having the simulation anyway as region will be completely pointless, so we will continue as planned.

     I agree totally with DWDL. I will also add that if the Dirty South secedes, & is forceably re-annexed without any concession by the anti-federalist forces, I will exile myself from Atlasia & live out the rest of my days in Switzerland, pending the resolution of any criminal charges you wish to levy against me.

[CultureKing]

OFFICIAL STATEMENT
7 Aug 2008, The White House

The President continues to monitor the situation in the Southeast and its impending secession vote.  It has been and remains the position of the White House that it is of the highest priority that our union be preserved.

First and formost, the government of Atlasia will in no way recognize the upcoming vote in the Southeast as legitimate.  The region shall remain a part of Atlasia regardless of the result of the vote.

Secondly, it is the opinion of this administration that secession from the Republic of Atlasia constitutes treason under the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act.  The government will not hesitate to seek the prosecution of responsible parties in this act of rebellion.

In the meantime, the President encourages the residents of the Southeast to protect their own rights and reject the efforts of a small minority that wishes to destroy our union.

I completely agree, we need to hold the traitors responsible.

[Хahar 🤔]

We have no wishes to destroy the Union and would call the vote to a halt immediatley if regional senate rights were preserved.  Otherwise, there is no reason in having the simulation anyway as region will be completely pointless, so we will continue as planned.

     I agree totally with DWDL. I will also add that if the Dirty South secedes, & is forceably re-annexed without any concession by the anti-federalist forces, I will exile myself from Atlasia & live out the rest of my days in Switzerland, pending the resolution of any criminal charges you wish to levy against me.

And I thought you were an ally...

[Associate Justice PiT]

OFFICIAL STATEMENT
7 Aug 2008, The White House

The President continues to monitor the situation in the Southeast and its impending secession vote.  It has been and remains the position of the White House that it is of the highest priority that our union be preserved.

First and formost, the government of Atlasia will in no way recognize the upcoming vote in the Southeast as legitimate.  The region shall remain a part of Atlasia regardless of the result of the vote.

Secondly, it is the opinion of this administration that secession from the Republic of Atlasia constitutes treason under the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act.  The government will not hesitate to seek the prosecution of responsible parties in this act of rebellion.

In the meantime, the President encourages the residents of the Southeast to protect their own rights and reject the efforts of a small minority that wishes to destroy our union.

     How could Southern secession possibly constitute treason?

     It's not rebellion, since we have no intention of using military force, except in self-defense. We sure don't intend to overthrow the federal or any regional government.

     If there's no rebellion, it goes without saying that we are not aiding one.

     I guess terrorism is the closest, but we don't wish to intimidate anyone. We wish to peaceably secede if the other citizens of the nation wish to do away with the last fragments of Atlasian federalism. That is all.

     The idea that we destroyed a voting booth is too laughable to be addressed.

     So, if I may inquire, Mr. President, what is your rationale for believing we secessionists to be traitors?

We have no wishes to destroy the Union and would call the vote to a halt immediatley if regional senate rights were preserved.  Otherwise, there is no reason in having the simulation anyway as region will be completely pointless, so we will continue as planned.

     I agree totally with DWDL. I will also add that if the Dirty South secedes, & is forceably re-annexed without any concession by the anti-federalist forces, I will exile myself from Atlasia & live out the rest of my days in Switzerland, pending the resolution of any criminal charges you wish to levy against me.

And I thought you were an ally...

     I'm an ally to a fun game first & Atlasia second. I believe that a fun game requires strong regional governments. I'm just doing what I think is necessary to keep this game fun.

     Besides, don't you agree that this whole secession hullabaloo is fun?

[HappyWarrior]

We must put the south down so it can not seceed a second time!  Hello Reconstruction!(And we won't be idiots and pull out to early like a certain other nation did in their civil war;))

[SPC]

OFFICIAL STATEMENT
7 Aug 2008, The White House

The President continues to monitor the situation in the Southeast and its impending secession vote.  It has been and remains the position of the White House that it is of the highest priority that our union be preserved.

Even if the union is not consentual? Any contract that prohibits one party from exiting that contract is a slave contract. Do you wish to be the president of slaves?

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Since I have already pointed out the constitutional, historical, and moral reasons for secession in the convention thread, could you please explain what constitutional authority you have to stop secession, in Article II of the Atlasian Constitution? If you cannot fulfill this simple task, your lack of recognition of an independent state will be enough to constitute impeachment.

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According to Wikipedia's law entry for treason, the legal definition for treason is:
"...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]."

We have no intent to overthrow the government of Atlasia, we just would like to leave it on our own terms, a victimless crime. We have no intent to make war against the government of Atlasia, we have sought peace. We also have no intention of injuring the nation, as we hope that Atlasian life continues on even when we are our own republic. Also, even if we were to assume that the secessionists we doing any of thse things, it still would not constitute treason, as the Southeast is a regional government, not a foreign government.

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How about the small minority in Nyman that wishes to abolish regional senate elections? Shouldn't we protect our rights against them? Also, how does the seceding of a region infringe upon the residents' rights? The Dirty South has already let two Unionists freely declare themselves independent, so we cannot be said to be forcing the secessionist government upon the people. We are merely letting the secessionists have their own government. If anyone is infringing upon Southerners' rights, it is you, Mr. President, for attempting to force the secessionists to be part of an Atlasian Union they do not wish to be a part of.

[Colin]

OFFICIAL STATEMENT
7 Aug 2008, The White House

The President continues to monitor the situation in the Southeast and its impending secession vote.  It has been and remains the position of the White House that it is of the highest priority that our union be preserved.

Even if the union is not consentual? Any contract that prohibits one party from exiting that contract is a slave contract. Do you wish to be the president of slaves?

The union was never consentual. The regions were created out of thin air after the creation of the federal government, by the federal government, and enshrined in the first constitution. This is not the United States, the regions did not come together to form a nation, the federal structure formed first and then bequethed the regions as defined sub-national entities. There was no consentual compact since they were created by fiat of the Federal Government and the first Constitutional Convention and did not exist prior to the existance of this Federal Government.

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Since I have already pointed out the constitutional[/quote]

There are none. StatesRights v. Atlasia already dismisses the idea that regions have the power to nullify legislation and that they must submit to the legislation enacted by the Senate as long as it's constitutional. If the regional seats are done away with through normal constitutional amendment procedure and the South then nullifies that law and seceeds they are going against a previous Supreme Court ruling. Unlike the United States, you cannot make the argument that the Supreme Court does not hold the power of judicial review, since this stems from the judicial powers given to it in Article III of the Constitution including the power to nullify and void legislation.

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What the hell does this mean? Most of the people in the Southeast aren't even Southerners in real life but play Southerners, a land of Northerners who like to affix a drawl and long for the day when some romanticized version of the South will rise again. The Southeast, as a completely artificial creation, has no more history than the beginnings of this nation.

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There are no moral reasons. This is a game and you are acting like me when I used to play Monopoly when I was little. If I was going bankrupt I would always try to kick and scream until I got my way. The Southeast is attempting to do the same now, extorting the federal government and the citizens of the other regions so that something they don't like isn't enacted. That's about as moral as 8 year old me's tantrums over the rent on Park Place.

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The Supreme Court ruling Sam Spade v. Porce concluded that executive power is only limited by the Constitution itself. As long as the President does not actively violate the Constitution he can do whatever he likes, in essence. There is no stated set of powers for the executive but it is stated that he has them. Therefore the Senate concluded that the Presidential powers are not limited by anything more than the Constitutional limits set on all actions and legislation. As the Constitution does not explicitly state that regions have the right to secession than, under the Sam Spade v. Porce ruling, he has the power to stop secession, if he so chooses.

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According to Wikipedia's law entry for treason, the legal definition for treason is:
"...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]."

We have no intent to overthrow the government of Atlasia, we just would like to leave it on our own terms, a victimless crime. We have no intent to make war against the government of Atlasia, we have sought peace. We also have no intention of injuring the nation, as we hope that Atlasian life continues on even when we are our own republic. Also, even if we were to assume that the secessionists we doing any of thse things, it still would not constitute treason, as the Southeast is a regional government, not a foreign government.[/quote]

It will constitute treason if the President attempts to, under the powers that he was shown to have under the ruling Sam Spade v. Porce and as Commander-in-Chief of Atlasia, subdue the secession and you attempt to resist. I would say resisting the orders of the President to cease what you are currently doing would constitute treason in Atlasia since we are not a physical entity we cannot take up physical arms against the government but only either pretend to do so, through RPing, or by acting refusing to acknowledge the orders of that government. You of course aren't looking at the relevant text at all, when was the last time Atlasian law was determined by Wikipedia for Christ's sake, you need to look at the afformentioned Consolidated Criminal Justice Act.

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How about the small minority in Nyman that wishes to abolish regional senate elections?[/quote]

If it is such a small number, as you suggest, why the theatrics? If it is such a small number it is unlikely to get pass the Senate and even more unlikely to pass in the required number of regions. If it is such a small minority why bother this nation with your antics and just let the normal democratic course play out?

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You can do that by voting against the amendment. It's within every citizens rights, and indeed duty, to take a stand on the subject and vote accordingly and then to either live with the result of those votes or attempt to change them through democratic means.

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Because I'll bet you about 6 people will vote in this upcoming election. You, DWTL, PiT, Duke, Brandon, and somebody else, maybe Bacon King. The four of you will vote for it with probably two or three against. The motion will pass with roughly 4 out of the 22 or so Southeast residents. That definitely sounds like both a minority and an infringement upon the rights of the 18 or so people who don't want to seceed and what to remain a part of Atlasia.

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Joke secessions by one person, one of them ended it quickly and moved to the Mideast. The other is Andy Jackson. Neither of which has been supported by either myself, the President, or anyone in government.

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There is no Atlasian Union there is the Atlasian state. In reality we are a singular entity that, back in 2004, we decided to carve up into 5 arbitrary regions in order to simulate states. Atlasia has been a country of faux-federalism, unlike a normal federal republic where the states were independent entities prior to federation, in Atlasia the regions did not exist until the after the federal government and were only create and codified in the first constitution, which was a federal entity.

[Associate Justice PiT]

It will constitute treason if the President attempts to, under the powers that he was shown to have under the ruling Sam Spade v. Porce and as Commander-in-Chief of Atlasia, subdue the secession and you attempt to resist. I would say resisting the orders of the President to cease what you are currently doing would constitute treason in Atlasia since we are not a physical entity we cannot take up physical arms against the government but only either pretend to do so, through RPing, or by acting refusing to acknowledge the orders of that government. You of course aren't looking at the relevant text at all, when was the last time Atlasian law was determined by Wikipedia for Christ's sake, you need to look at the afformentioned Consolidated Criminal Justice Act.

     I will just mention this part, because I find it peculiar. You say that if we federalists act in self-defense against Atlasian aggression, we are committing treason. I assume you refer to rebellion, which acording to the CCJA constitutes:

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     If we take up arms purely in self-defense, with no intention of deposing any regional or federal government of Atlasia, how is that rebellion as defined by the CCJA? Do you have a Supreme Court case defining such an act as rebellion?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Your "self defense" would be our "rebellion". So to speak.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Your "self defense" would be our "rebellion". So to speak.

     Much like the American War of Independence, eh?

[Хahar 🤔]

Your "self defense" would be our "rebellion". So to speak.

     Much like the American War of Independence, eh?

Yes. And, just like the Founding Fathers, you're a bunch of coddled whiners.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Just wondering is there a way the senate can stop an executive order or something? I looked through the wiki and couldn't find much.

Sorry I missed this.

Just FYI, Atlasia also grandfathered in a congressional ban on coastal drilling.  To actually get the pumps flowing, the Senate would need to vote and give it's consent.

This was just your friendly government's half-hearted attempt to apply downward pressure on an already faltering oil futures market.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

With the upcoming midterm elections, it is important to make sure that we, as Atlasians, elect a slate of candidates that will, first and foremost, provide renewed energy and debate to the Atlasian Senate.

Though I am proud to be a member of the NLC, the need to provide for future leadership outweighs party loyalty.  For this reason, the President is endorsing former Senator and Vice President Jas for Senate as his first preference.

Jas was a model Vice President.  I, as indeed any Atlasian should, look forward to his return to the Senate.

[CultureKing]

With the upcoming midterm elections, it is important to make sure that we, as Atlasians, elect a slate of candidates that will, first and foremost, provide renewed energy and debate to the Atlasian Senate.

Though I am proud to be a member of the NLC, the need to provide for future leadership outweighs party loyalty.  For this reason, the President is endorsing former Senator and Vice President Jas for Senate as his first preference.

Jas was a model Vice President.  I, as indeed any Atlasian should, look forward to his return to the Senate.

oh, ok. I though we had a close relationship, something meaningful but I guess... (runs away to cry in a corner).

[HappyWarrior]

With the upcoming midterm elections, it is important to make sure that we, as Atlasians, elect a slate of candidates that will, first and foremost, provide renewed energy and debate to the Atlasian Senate.

Though I am proud to be a member of the NLC, the need to provide for future leadership outweighs party loyalty.  For this reason, the President is endorsing former Senator and Vice President Jas for Senate as his first preference.

Jas was a model Vice President.  I, as indeed any Atlasian should, look forward to his return to the Senate.

oh, ok. I though we had a close relationship, something meaningful but I guess... (runs away to cry in a corner).

^^^^^ :-p

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Haha...honestly, there are very few people running this go around that wouldn't make incredibly good Senators.  Filling out my top preferences is going to be hard, which is why I limited my endorsement to the number one spot.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Haha...honestly, there are very few people running this go around that wouldn't make incredibly good Senators.  Filling out my top preferences is going to be hard, which is why I limited my endorsement to the number one spot.

     Indeed. Voting was very hard for me. I liked all of the candidates & felt bad that one of them had to go last.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I shall be making an announcement regarding the October 2008 elections shortly.

[Хahar 🤔]

Official White House Scorecard

PR-STV Senators (For Election August 2008)

Senator	With	Against	Abstain	No Vote	Score
Colin Wixted (NLC-PA)	1	0	0	0	100%
Rocky Republican (NLC-ME)	1	0	0	0	100%
Afleitch (NLC-WI)	1	0	0	0	100%
Culture King (JCP-WA)	1	0	0	0	100%
EarlAW (AUB-NY)	0	1	0	0	0%

Regional Senators (For Election October 2008)

Senator	With	Against	Abstain	No Vote	Score
Verily (NLC-NH)	1	0	0	0	100%
MeekerMariner (AUB-VA)	1	0	0	0	100%
DownWithTheLeft (AUB-AL)	1	0	0	0	100%
Lewis Trondheim (Misc-ND)	1	0	0	0	100%
Torie (i-CA)	1	0	0	0	100%

Votes Counted
Appointment to the Supreme Court: Sen. Sam Spade.
Aye: 9 (Wixted, Flynn, Afleitch, CultureKing, Verily, MeekerMariner, DWTL, Trondheim, Torie)
Nay: 1 (EarlAW)

Eh?

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Oh, shucks, I forgot to make my announcement before leaving work yesterday.  I'll do it now.

The announcement is that, by executive order, I will be placing a non-binding referendum question on the October 2008 Presidential ballot concerning the Atlasian recognition of the United States, or lack thereof.  The wording will be decided in the upcoming days between myself and the Secretary of External Affairs, and public suggestions are welcome.

If we can reach some manner of consensus on the issue, my administration will move to make that consensus public policy.