Ireland, will Europe overcome?

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Yeah, I think it's going to take more than one election in Ireland to send Europe into a second Dark Ages. 

Or at least one would hope.

I don't speak about Dark Age, I speak about a weak entity, composed of weak states...

[GMantis]

Thanks, now we'll get the French Trots, fascists, and retards claiming a huge victory for their party. Great.

Might as well not watch the news for a week.

If the major parties would have any sense and take the right side that wouldn't have to occur...

Yes, just like during the referendums in 2005 the fact that all major parties supported the "yes" vote shows the clearly undemocratic nature of both the constitution and its slight modification, the Lisbon Treaty

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Thanks, now we'll get the French Trots, fascists, and retards claiming a huge victory for their party. Great.

Might as well not watch the news for a week.

If the major parties would have any sense and take the right side that wouldn't have to occur...

Yes, just like during the referendums in 2005 the fact that all major parties supported the "yes" vote shows the clearly undemocratic nature of both the constitution and its slight modification, the Lisbon Treaty

It's an interpretation, what this surely shows to me it is the non-representativeness of the govs on this question in particular. Second thing it surely shows to me, more than the fact if yes or no these treaties were more or less democratic than what we currently know, it is the non-understandable aspect of these ones, their "darkness". Where do we go with these? What to do? Why? Nothing of this has been clearly answered, why would public opinions move for so unclear things?

European Union has never known how to overcome a technical aspect, that's a long time now that it has been done before by bureaucratic technicians and these have forgotten they were managing populations, result: Crash! To me, that's normal...

[Albus Dumbledore]

To those in Europe: Rise up and purge your reds and moslems. Europe isn't dead yet but it can save itself if it acts fast enough. We need a functioning Europe to adopt trendy liberal social trends and show if it's a good idea for the US to adopt.

[GMantis]

To those in Europe: Rise up and purge your reds and moslems. Europe isn't dead yet but it can save itself if it acts fast enough. We need a functioning Europe to adopt trendy liberal social trends and show if it's a good idea for the US to adopt.

How is the purging to be done? And how can this be reconciled witj liberal social trends?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Political Europe 1957-2008? RIP?

Oh, don't be silly. It didn't end with the rejection in France (!) so why would it with Ireland

[minionofmidas]

Political Europe 1957-2008? RIP?

Oh, don't be silly. It didn't end with the rejection in France (!) so why would it with Ireland

Because while the Nice Treaty is such a catastrophe - as everybody knew beforehand - and it appears to be impossible to correct its most obvious flaws because people vote against that on essentially unrelated grounds, meaning that the Catastrophe of Nice remains in force?
That's the conundrum, basically.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Political Europe 1957-2008? RIP?

Oh, don't be silly. It didn't end with the rejection in France (!) so why would it with Ireland

Because while the Nice Treaty is such a catastrophe - as everybody knew beforehand - and it appears to be impossible to correct its most obvious flaws because people vote against that on essentially unrelated grounds, meaning that the Catastrophe of Nice remains in force?
That's the conundrum, basically.

Other than that, other than that

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

To those in Europe: Rise up and purge your reds and moslems. Europe isn't dead yet but it can save itself if it acts fast enough. We need a functioning Europe to adopt trendy liberal social trends and show if it's a good idea for the US to adopt.

How is the purging to be done?

Euh, curious question. Someone in the 30's wondered about such questions, he was austrian and took the power in Germany, you might have heard about him. Who here spoke about Europe to go back in Dark Age?

Political Europe 1957-2008? RIP?

Oh, don't be silly. It didn't end with the rejection in France (!) so why would it with Ireland

Well, as I've already said here or there that's a long time I no more believe in the political Europe, the Economical one seems to be more OK.

I consider France as a serious shot, Netherlands as a confirmation of this one, and Ireland making the things going deeper...

Political Europe 1957-2008? RIP?

Oh, don't be silly. It didn't end with the rejection in France (!) so why would it with Ireland

Because while the Nice Treaty is such a catastrophe - as everybody knew beforehand - and it appears to be impossible to correct its most obvious flaws because people vote against that on essentially unrelated grounds, meaning that the Catastrophe of Nice remains in force?
That's the conundrum, basically.

Well, I tend to agree until the question of the Catastrophe of Nice, and I would personally add that bureaucrats had to find clear related grounds.

The question of the future of Nice?

Hmm, more than a conundrum, I see here just a quagmire, an impasse. As long as the Public Opinions will be let on the sides of the road they will give flaps to Europe, by referendums or others. I tend to think that Europe can just be managed in a minimalist political way which would just make economy easier and establish standards, nothing else.

More of that I doubt that US would be OK to see a strong political Europe which could have a real influence on the world arise. US support something for Europe? For sure it is something good for economy, not for politics.

And still more of that, I wonder about what would be the possibility of "Une Europe des régions" like we say in France, I mean an Europe less and less politically strong because of the decline of nations in favor of the big regions. Biggest examples are Flanders (I'm really waiting for the next belgian general elections), Scotland, Catalonia, and also in some ways the North of Italia.

Hmm, someone to believe in a political Europe?

[Bono]

Political Europe 1957-2008? RIP?

Oh, don't be silly. It didn't end with the rejection in France (!) so why would it with Ireland

Because while the Nice Treaty is such a catastrophe - as everybody knew beforehand - and it appears to be impossible to correct its most obvious flaws because people vote against that on essentially unrelated grounds, meaning that the Catastrophe of Nice remains in force?
That's the conundrum, basically.

The only "problem" with Nice is that the Franco-German directorate cannot ram through as many legislation as it would like. Like Gustaf pointed out in the Referendum thread in the International Elections board, the Eu certainly hasn't had any trouble sacrificing so many trees on its endless regulations.
One columnist here in Portugal pointed it out very eloquently--the current system hasn't got any problems if the Eu is to simply be what it should be, an area of democracy, peace and free trade. The only "problems" appear when the objective starts to be to force countries to adpot as much legislation as some want, even if they are opposed to it.

[Albus Dumbledore]

Native europeans are getting more and more angry at their leftist governments. Don't count on liberal trends surviving iun the long run. If you want to continue to enjoy life in a liberal society I suggest you move to the US/Canada soon.

[GMantis]

Native europeans are getting more and more angry at their leftist governments. Don't count on liberal trends surviving iun the long run. If you want to continue to enjoy life in a liberal society I suggest you move to the US/Canada soon.

You called on the Europeans to purge their red and "moslems" and implied that this would be the to save liberal social trends, so I ask how will this be done.

[Јas]

Native europeans are getting more and more angry at their leftist governments.

Pray tell, where these leftist European governments you speak of? Germany? France? Italy? Ireland?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Better to just ignore him.

[Torie]

Er Spain? 

[Verily]

Er Spain? 

I think they're pretty popular, actually...

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Native europeans are getting more and more angry at their leftist governments.

Pray tell, where these leftist European governments you speak of? Germany? France? Italy? Ireland?

Hmm, if someone can tell me what does left mean I'm interested in. Is that more sympathetic than right?

[Albus Dumbledore]

By which I mean social democrats.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

By which I mean social democrats.

Hmm, the question would be the same...

Sorry, I just see Real Politikers everywhere, the only splits I see are on moral postures...