Return to September 10th Bill [Final passage at vote]

[minionofmidas]

The original bill is submitted again to the President for his signature or veto.

I think Verily now has the choice to resubmit the original bill, or to reopen of debate?
Or has he informed you of his choice by pm? I want debate reopened. I intend to offer an amendment to the bill.

[Colin]

The original bill is submitted again to the President for his signature or veto.

I think Verily now has the choice to resubmit the original bill, or to reopen of debate?
Or has he informed you of his choice by pm? I want debate reopened. I intend to offer an amendment to the bill.

Oh yes, my fault. The sponsor, Meeker, has the choice to either resubmit the original bill or re-open debate on the bill.

[minionofmidas]

The original bill is submitted again to the President for his signature or veto.

I think Verily now has the choice to resubmit the original bill, or to reopen of debate?
Or has he informed you of his choice by pm? I want debate reopened. I intend to offer an amendment to the bill.

Oh yes, my fault. The sponsor, Meeker, has the choice to either resubmit the original bill or re-open debate on the bill.

Oh, it's Meeker? Damn my faulty memory. Please reopen debate!

[Meeker]

What's the amendment you want to offer?

[minionofmidas]

"Section 3: Guantanamo Bay
1. The prison camp located at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is to be closed within six months after this act becomes law.

2.
a. All those presently detained without due charge shall be released to their country of origin.
b. All those detained without due charge in whose cases release to country of origin is impossible due to disputed nationality or similar reasons, and all those detained without due charge threatened with torture or the death penalty in their country of origin, shall be released and granted political in Atlasia.
c. All those detained with due charge shall be transferred to the ordinary federal prison system, and put on trial within 120 days."

Open to debate about some of the wording etc here, but something along these lines. Other sections to remain as originally passed by the Senate. (I'm not sure about how "being charged" works/ed before the Kangaroo Courts - which are now unconstitutional irl - and anyways they never existed in Atlasia. We would need a rule that gives the government the right to file regular charges during the six months. Maybe Torie can write that.)


To recap my reasoning...

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Afleitch's well-intentioned but in effect half contentless, half potentially murderous amendment having been passed by the 25th Senate after being voted down by the 26th, with none of the points addressed here clarified (sorry Porce, the

existing ban on extraditing people who have a risk of facing death or torture

is not enough to satisfy my qualms. Not with any alternative allowed by the law) I'll do anything necessary to reopen debate in order to fix the problem, and everything possible to stop this monstrosity from becoming law.

As to the lesser-relevancy opening sections, I prefer the bill passed by the Senate to the presidential redraft, but don't particularly care.

I am therefore voting nay on the presidential redraft, and urging Meeker to reopen debate in case the nays have it, or failing that, urging Moderate to veto the bill.
[/quote]

[Meeker]

I'm in favor of that amendment. I ask that debate be reopened on the bill.

[Colin]

Alright, debate is hereby re-opened on the Return to September 10th Bill.

[Хahar 🤔]

Wow, this bill has been on the floor for three months and nine days.

[Torie]

I am only prepared to grant the right of habeas corpus review by our Supreme Court to these prisoners. I am not prepared to vote for anything that releases some of these people who while there may be insufficient evidence to put them away (is being an enemy combatant even a crime?), much less release them into our midst.  I prefer to let our Supreme Court fashion some balancing test case by case. One size does not fit all.

[minionofmidas]

I am only prepared to grant the right of habeas corpus review by our Supreme Court to these prisoners. I am not prepared to vote for anything that releases some of these people who while there may be insufficient evidence to put them away.

I can only encourage you to read up on the diverse cases at Gitmo.
It's basically safe to say that, after a short period at the beginning and until September 2006, nobody whom the US government considered dangerous was brought to Gitmo, due to the danger of it being declared unconstitutional. Such people (all 14 of them) were instead held at wholly extralegal locations outside the reach of US courts.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I will continue to oppose bills that shut down Guatanemo

[Torie]

I am only prepared to grant the right of habeas corpus review by our Supreme Court to these prisoners. I am not prepared to vote for anything that releases some of these people who while there may be insufficient evidence to put them away.

I can only encourage you to read up on the diverse cases at Gitmo.
It's basically safe to say that, after a short period at the beginning and until September 2006, nobody whom the US government considered dangerous was brought to Gitmo, due to the danger of it being declared unconstitutional. Such people (all 14 of them) were instead held at wholly extralegal locations outside the reach of US courts.

Well, if the chaps in Gitmo are all lambs, I am sure our Supremes will spring them, given their woolly status. So the problem is solved, with the Torie fix.

[Colin]

I will continue to oppose bills that shut down Guatanemo

Well thanks for that but you wont be Senator for much longer.

Lewis do you want to formally introduce that amendment?

[minionofmidas]

Consider it introduced.

[Torie]

Where is the amendment? I would appreciate it if someone copies and pastes the text we are to consider.

[minionofmidas]

"Section 3: Guantanamo Bay
1. The prison camp located at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is to be closed within six months after this act becomes law.

2.
a. All those presently detained without due charge shall be released to their country of origin.
b. All those detained without due charge in whose cases release to country of origin is impossible due to disputed nationality or similar reasons, and all those detained without due charge threatened with torture or the death penalty in their country of origin, shall be released and granted political in Atlasia.
c. All those detained with due charge shall be transferred to the ordinary federal prison system, and put on trial within 120 days."

Remaining sections to remain unchanged, of course.

[Meeker]

I support this, obviously.

[Torie]

I propose this rewrite as a friendly amendment. I think the changes are self explanatory.

"Section 3: Guantanamo Bay

1. The prison camp located at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is to be closed within six months after this act becomes law.

2.
a. All those presently detained who are not duly charged within 90 days of the enactment of this Act shall be released to their country of origin.

b. Notwithstanding the provisions of 2.a., in any case where (ii) [(i)]  the country of origin of any such prisoner otherwise subject to release is disputed, and the court with jurisdiction is unable due to insufficient evidence to make a finding of fact of such country of origin, or (ii)  the rendition of any such prisoner to any such country of origin is found by such court to pose a substantial risk that such prisoner will be subjected to torture or the death penalty in such country of origin, such prisoner shall be released and granted political in Atlasia.

c. All those detained in Guantanamo Bay with due charge shall be transferred to the ordinary federal prison system, and  prosecuted in accordance with the same federal  law which  obtains for the citizens of Atlasia residing within the nation of Atlasia.

[Edited to correct obvious typo as noted above ((i) comes before (ii))]

[Colin]

Meeker must approve this amendment as friendly before 6:27 PM today. Otherwise this will be included in the amendment queue and will be voted on after Senator Trondheim's amendment.

[minionofmidas]

I accept the amendment as friendly.

[Colin]

I accept the amendment as friendly.

It has to be Meeker who accepts it as he is the sponsor of the original bill.

[minionofmidas]

I accept the amendment as friendly.

It has to be Meeker who accepts it as he is the sponsor of the original bill.

Oh. Well in that case I withdraw my version. That should work, shouldn't it?

[Meeker]

I'll take Torie's as friendly.

[Colin]

Senator's have 24 hours to file an objection to accepting Torie's amendment as friendly.

[Colin]

No Senators objected to Torie's amendment being introduced as friendly. I will leave this open for 24 more hours in order to see if there is any last debate on this bill. Voting will begin tomorrow.