Feb. 21 Democratic debate in Austin, TX **live commentary thread**

[exopolitician]

Obama: Iraq is just to expensive, and therefore .... ?

We've wasted enough on a country that we have come to occupy that for 5 years is still unstable and fraught with chaos. Why do we have to worry about something that shouldnt involve us...Iraq is its own country...they are big boys...they can and should handle their own situations. America should work closely with Iraq in the future, but our occupation should be gone if not atleast scaled down.

Lets focus on whats happening in Afghanistan where things have slowly trickled back to pre-9/11 situations. And also in Pakistan. Lets also invest our money in things that matter here at home...healthcare and a good education is a start atleast. Why do you oppose this?

[Torie]

Obama: Iraq is just to expensive, and therefore .... ?

We've wasted enough on a country that we have come to occupy that for 5 years is still unstable and fraught with chaos. Why do we have to worry about something that shouldnt involve us...Iraq is its own country...they are big boys...they can and should handle their own situations. America should work closely with Iraq in the future, but our occupation should be gone if not atleast scaled down.

Lets focus on whats happening in Afghanistan where things have slowly trickled back to pre-9/11 situations. And also in Pakistan. Lets also invest our money in things that matter here at home...healthcare and a good education is a start atleast. Why do you oppose this?

What happens if Iraq goes to hell, the chaos spreads, and the zip codes for Jihad petri dishes multiply?

[The Duke]

Why does CNN continue to allow their debates to be dominated by an audience of trained seals who clap whenever their candidate finishes talking?  Don't they realize this makes their debate substantially less useful?

And Weasel, M isn't against Obama's plan because of partisanship.  He opposes it because its not a good plan.  It spends $70 billion without getting universal coverage (15 million would still have no insurance).

Hillary is vastly smarter than Obama and clearly has the better grasp of the substance here.  She would also clearly be the superior President.  Whether the fact that she's clearly more right on the merits may not matter to Democrats, who appear increasingly invulnerable to evidence.

[Torie]

The Dem platform: It is all just so simple. No tough choices to make, all gain, no pain, no downside, it will all come up roses. The city on the hill in every back yard, courtesy of your friendly wars suck government bureaucrat.

[exopolitician]

Obama: Iraq is just to expensive, and therefore .... ?

We've wasted enough on a country that we have come to occupy that for 5 years is still unstable and fraught with chaos. Why do we have to worry about something that shouldnt involve us...Iraq is its own country...they are big boys...they can and should handle their own situations. America should work closely with Iraq in the future, but our occupation should be gone if not atleast scaled down.

Lets focus on whats happening in Afghanistan where things have slowly trickled back to pre-9/11 situations. And also in Pakistan. Lets also invest our money in things that matter here at home...healthcare and a good education is a start atleast. Why do you oppose this?

What happens if Iraq goes to hell, the chaos spreads, and the zip codes for Jihad petri dishes multiply?

How is this our problem? Are we Iraqis? No....we should work on the safety of our country here at home first before going around the world picking out random countries and bombing the sh!t out of them. We need to work with these countries, ignoring them is just going to piss them off more. Pointing fingers and calling names, like Bush likes to do will get us into serious trouble...more trouble then we are right now.

[Torie]

Hillary: we can fund the city on the hill be repealing the tax cuts for those earning over $250,000 per year (a 3% tax increase in rates).. Who knew?  LOL. Send in the CPA's!

Do Dems really believe this stuff?

[The Duke]

Haha. Obama's entire campaign is a collection of warmed-up self help/corporate slogans.

Q: What's the difference between Barack Obama and Tony Robbins?

A: Tony Robbins knows he's not qualified to be President.

[หมูเด้ง]

What I want to know is how many Republicans on this forum would support Obama's health care plan because of his rhetoric about unity and his charisma? How does that make people forget about the real differences people have over issues?

Not me.

See? This is the problem. People are willing to fight tooth and nail against someone else's good ideas just because they are a democrat. Obama doesn't believe this and that is why he will be president.

No... I'm glad he's a democrat, and I'm not against him because he's a Democrat. I'm against him because he's naive, far left, has terrible ideas, and opposes the war in Iraq.

ah....you're not far right, he's just far left.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Obama: Iraq is just to expensive, and therefore .... ?

We've wasted enough on a country that we have come to occupy that for 5 years is still unstable and fraught with chaos. Why do we have to worry about something that shouldnt involve us...Iraq is its own country...they are big boys...they can and should handle their own situations. America should work closely with Iraq in the future, but our occupation should be gone if not atleast scaled down.

Lets focus on whats happening in Afghanistan where things have slowly trickled back to pre-9/11 situations. And also in Pakistan. Lets also invest our money in things that matter here at home...healthcare and a good education is a start atleast. Why do you oppose this?

What happens if Iraq goes to hell, the chaos spreads, and the zip codes for Jihad petri dishes multiply?

What happens if we leave and the violence goes down?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/17/2322/9937

[Torie]

Obama: Iraq is just to expensive, and therefore .... ?

We've wasted enough on a country that we have come to occupy that for 5 years is still unstable and fraught with chaos. Why do we have to worry about something that shouldnt involve us...Iraq is its own country...they are big boys...they can and should handle their own situations. America should work closely with Iraq in the future, but our occupation should be gone if not atleast scaled down.


Lets focus on whats happening in Afghanistan where things have slowly trickled back to pre-9/11 situations. And also in Pakistan. Lets also invest our money in things that matter here at home...healthcare and a good education is a start atleast. Why do you oppose this?

What happens if Iraq goes to hell, the chaos spreads, and the zip codes for Jihad petri dishes multiply?

How is this our problem? Are we Iraqis? No....we should work on the safety of our country here at home first before going around the world picking out random countries and bombing the sh!t out of them. We need to work with these countries, ignoring them is just going to piss them off more. Pointing fingers and calling names, like Bush likes to do will get us into serious trouble...more trouble then we are right now.

Ya making more zip codes safe for Jihad is someone else's problem. Got it. Fortress America.

[หมูเด้ง]

Obama: Iraq is just to expensive, and therefore .... ?

We've wasted enough on a country that we have come to occupy that for 5 years is still unstable and fraught with chaos. Why do we have to worry about something that shouldnt involve us...Iraq is its own country...they are big boys...they can and should handle their own situations. America should work closely with Iraq in the future, but our occupation should be gone if not atleast scaled down.


Lets focus on whats happening in Afghanistan where things have slowly trickled back to pre-9/11 situations. And also in Pakistan. Lets also invest our money in things that matter here at home...healthcare and a good education is a start atleast. Why do you oppose this?

What happens if Iraq goes to hell, the chaos spreads, and the zip codes for Jihad petri dishes multiply?

How is this our problem? Are we Iraqis? No....we should work on the safety of our country here at home first before going around the world picking out random countries and bombing the sh!t out of them. We need to work with these countries, ignoring them is just going to piss them off more. Pointing fingers and calling names, like Bush likes to do will get us into serious trouble...more trouble then we are right now.

You making more zip codes safe for Jihad is someone else's problem. Got it. Fortress America.

If there's no violence, why is there Jihad there? It wasn't there before.

Jihad- what republicans call foreign policy where they are too proud to admit that they are wrong.

[Torie]

Obama: Iraq is just to expensive, and therefore .... ?

We've wasted enough on a country that we have come to occupy that for 5 years is still unstable and fraught with chaos. Why do we have to worry about something that shouldnt involve us...Iraq is its own country...they are big boys...they can and should handle their own situations. America should work closely with Iraq in the future, but our occupation should be gone if not atleast scaled down.

Lets focus on whats happening in Afghanistan where things have slowly trickled back to pre-9/11 situations. And also in Pakistan. Lets also invest our money in things that matter here at home...healthcare and a good education is a start atleast. Why do you oppose this?

What happens if Iraq goes to hell, the chaos spreads, and the zip codes for Jihad petri dishes multiply?

What happens if we leave and the violence goes down?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/17/2322/9937

If as Hillary pulls out troops, the lion sits down with the lamb, then well she can keep withdrawing them. But it would be nice if she admitted that she might have to reverse course if things don't work out.

[M]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

We've wasted enough on a country that we have come to occupy that for 5 years is still unstable and fraught with chaos. Why do we have to worry about something that shouldnt involve us...Iraq is its own country...they are big boys...they can and should handle their own situations. America should work closely with Iraq in the future, but our occupation should be gone if not atleast scaled down.


Lets focus on whats happening in Afghanistan where things have slowly trickled back to pre-9/11 situations. And also in Pakistan. Lets also invest our money in things that matter here at home...healthcare and a good education is a start atleast. Why do you oppose this?
[/quote]

What happens if Iraq goes to hell, the chaos spreads, and the zip codes for Jihad petri dishes multiply?
[/quote]

How is this our problem? Are we Iraqis? No....we should work on the safety of our country here at home first before going around the world picking out random countries and bombing the sh!t out of them. We need to work with these countries, ignoring them is just going to piss them off more. Pointing fingers and calling names, like Bush likes to do will get us into serious trouble...more trouble then we are right now.
[/quote]

You making more zip codes safe for Jihad is someone else's problem. Got it. Fortress America.

[/quote]
If there's no violence, why is there Jihad there? It wasn't there before.
[/quote][/quote]

He does have a point. Jihad was invented during the Bush administration, as any scholar of Islam could tell you.

[Torie]

By the way, Bush is pulling troops out, and if conditions permit, he will keep doing it. There really are not very many responsible options when it comes to Iraq given the current situation, is the dirty little secret.

"He does have a point. Jihad was invented during the Bush administration, as any scholar of Islam could tell you."

Bush  invented Jihad fast. 9-11 happened in mere months after he took office. Why don't Dems be honest, and say, hey, Iraq and us would be better off, if he had let the vicious killer dictator Saddam in power, to keep his jackboot on those Shia folks necks?

[M]

What I want to know is how many Republicans on this forum would support Obama's health care plan because of his rhetoric about unity and his charisma? How does that make people forget about the real differences people have over issues?

Not me.

See? This is the problem. People are willing to fight tooth and nail against someone else's good ideas just because they are a democrat. Obama doesn't believe this and that is why he will be president.

No... I'm glad he's a democrat, and I'm not against him because he's a Democrat. I'm against him because he's naive, far left, has terrible ideas, and opposes the war in Iraq.

ah....you're not far right, he's just far left.

Well, I'm pro-choice, pro-gun-control, anti-death penalty, and pro-gay-domestic-partnership. I also don't want the union agenda, or Iran with nuclear weapons. Your call.

[หมูเด้ง]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

We've wasted enough on a country that we have come to occupy that for 5 years is still unstable and fraught with chaos. Why do we have to worry about something that shouldnt involve us...Iraq is its own country...they are big boys...they can and should handle their own situations. America should work closely with Iraq in the future, but our occupation should be gone if not atleast scaled down.


Lets focus on whats happening in Afghanistan where things have slowly trickled back to pre-9/11 situations. And also in Pakistan. Lets also invest our money in things that matter here at home...healthcare and a good education is a start atleast. Why do you oppose this?

What happens if Iraq goes to hell, the chaos spreads, and the zip codes for Jihad petri dishes multiply?
[/quote]

How is this our problem? Are we Iraqis? No....we should work on the safety of our country here at home first before going around the world picking out random countries and bombing the sh!t out of them. We need to work with these countries, ignoring them is just going to piss them off more. Pointing fingers and calling names, like Bush likes to do will get us into serious trouble...more trouble then we are right now.
[/quote]

You making more zip codes safe for Jihad is someone else's problem. Got it. Fortress America.

[/quote]
If there's no violence, why is there Jihad there? It wasn't there before.
[/quote][/quote]

He does have a point. Jihad was invented during the Bush administration, as any scholar of Islam could tell you.
[/quote]

"Jihad" has been around since 2001. Jihad has been around since 638.

What I want to know is how many Republicans on this forum would support Obama's health care plan because of his rhetoric about unity and his charisma? How does that make people forget about the real differences people have over issues?

Not me.

See? This is the problem. People are willing to fight tooth and nail against someone else's good ideas just because they are a democrat. Obama doesn't believe this and that is why he will be president.

No... I'm glad he's a democrat, and I'm not against him because he's a Democrat. I'm against him because he's naive, far left, has terrible ideas, and opposes the war in Iraq.

ah....you're not far right, he's just far left.

Well, I'm pro-choice, pro-gun-control, anti-death penalty, and pro-gay-domestic-partnership. I also don't want the union agenda, or Iran with nuclear weapons. Your call.

You're in the wrong party, then.

[Eraserhead]

Did it seem like Hillary was sort of giving up at the end?

[Alcon]

Did it seem like Hillary was sort of giving up at the end?

Her final answer was very, very good...

[M]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

We've wasted enough on a country that we have come to occupy that for 5 years is still unstable and fraught with chaos. Why do we have to worry about something that shouldnt involve us...Iraq is its own country...they are big boys...they can and should handle their own situations. America should work closely with Iraq in the future, but our occupation should be gone if not atleast scaled down.


Lets focus on whats happening in Afghanistan where things have slowly trickled back to pre-9/11 situations. And also in Pakistan. Lets also invest our money in things that matter here at home...healthcare and a good education is a start atleast. Why do you oppose this?

What happens if Iraq goes to hell, the chaos spreads, and the zip codes for Jihad petri dishes multiply?

How is this our problem? Are we Iraqis? No....we should work on the safety of our country here at home first before going around the world picking out random countries and bombing the sh!t out of them. We need to work with these countries, ignoring them is just going to piss them off more. Pointing fingers and calling names, like Bush likes to do will get us into serious trouble...more trouble then we are right now.
[/quote]

You making more zip codes safe for Jihad is someone else's problem. Got it. Fortress America.

[/quote]
If there's no violence, why is there Jihad there? It wasn't there before.
[/quote][/quote]

He does have a point. Jihad was invented during the Bush administration, as any scholar of Islam could tell you.
[/quote]

"Jihad" has been around since 2001. Jihad has been around since 638.

What I want to know is how many Republicans on this forum would support Obama's health care plan because of his rhetoric about unity and his charisma? How does that make people forget about the real differences people have over issues?

Not me.

See? This is the problem. People are willing to fight tooth and nail against someone else's good ideas just because they are a democrat. Obama doesn't believe this and that is why he will be president.

No... I'm glad he's a democrat, and I'm not against him because he's a Democrat. I'm against him because he's naive, far left, has terrible ideas, and opposes the war in Iraq.

ah....you're not far right, he's just far left.

Well, I'm pro-choice, pro-gun-control, anti-death penalty, and pro-gay-domestic-partnership. I also don't want the union agenda, or Iran with nuclear weapons. Your call.

You're in the wrong party, then.
[/quote]

Hezbollah was founded in 1983, Hamas and al-Qaeda in the early 90's. The Embassy bombings in Africa were in '98, the USS Cole in 2000. All of that "Jihad" was before 2001.

The party I'm in gets that. The party I'm in was out of power when our ally in Iran was overthrown by a progenitor of jihadist violence, Ayatollah Khomeini. The party I'm in will keep us safe.

Because if the U.S. is destroyed by terrorism, nothing else matters. Why would one vote on anything else?

[หมูเด้ง]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

We've wasted enough on a country that we have come to occupy that for 5 years is still unstable and fraught with chaos. Why do we have to worry about something that shouldnt involve us...Iraq is its own country...they are big boys...they can and should handle their own situations. America should work closely with Iraq in the future, but our occupation should be gone if not atleast scaled down.


Lets focus on whats happening in Afghanistan where things have slowly trickled back to pre-9/11 situations. And also in Pakistan. Lets also invest our money in things that matter here at home...healthcare and a good education is a start atleast. Why do you oppose this?

What happens if Iraq goes to hell, the chaos spreads, and the zip codes for Jihad petri dishes multiply?

How is this our problem? Are we Iraqis? No....we should work on the safety of our country here at home first before going around the world picking out random countries and bombing the sh!t out of them. We need to work with these countries, ignoring them is just going to piss them off more. Pointing fingers and calling names, like Bush likes to do will get us into serious trouble...more trouble then we are right now.

You making more zip codes safe for Jihad is someone else's problem. Got it. Fortress America.

[/quote]
If there's no violence, why is there Jihad there? It wasn't there before.
[/quote][/quote]

He does have a point. Jihad was invented during the Bush administration, as any scholar of Islam could tell you.
[/quote]

"Jihad" has been around since 2001. Jihad has been around since 638.

What I want to know is how many Republicans on this forum would support Obama's health care plan because of his rhetoric about unity and his charisma? How does that make people forget about the real differences people have over issues?

Not me.

See? This is the problem. People are willing to fight tooth and nail against someone else's good ideas just because they are a democrat. Obama doesn't believe this and that is why he will be president.

No... I'm glad he's a democrat, and I'm not against him because he's a Democrat. I'm against him because he's naive, far left, has terrible ideas, and opposes the war in Iraq.

ah....you're not far right, he's just far left.

Well, I'm pro-choice, pro-gun-control, anti-death penalty, and pro-gay-domestic-partnership. I also don't want the union agenda, or Iran with nuclear weapons. Your call.

You're in the wrong party, then.
[/quote]

Hezbollah was founded in 1983, Hamas and al-Qaeda in the early 90's. The Embassy bombings in Africa were in '98, the USS Cole in 2000. All of that "Jihad" was before 2001.

The party I'm in gets that. The party I'm in was out of power when our ally in Iran was overthrown by a progenitor of jihadist violence, Ayatollah Khomeini. The party I'm in will keep us safe.

Because if the U.S. is destroyed by terrorism, nothing else matters. Why would one vote on anything else?
[/quote]

The label "Jihad" came about in 2001, in 1991, they were a bunch of idiots that we were containing pretty well, at least only 200 were killed instead of 10000.

...and terrorism is just thing that could destroy America. Global Warming could. Fundies could. Unbalenced budgets could. Technological conservatism could. Then again, overintensity on any of these issues will have the same effect as ignoring them.

[exopolitician]

Her ending remarks sounded alot like Edwards remarks a couple debates ago. It was good and all, yay for her....but im not sold.

[Trilobyte]

It was good and all, yay for her....but im not sold.

It's not like anything she says can possibly change your mind anyway. I think her final answer was great and it will be the story of the night.

[exopolitician]

It was good and all, yay for her....but im not sold.

It's not like anything she says can possibly change your mind anyway. I think her final answer was great and it will be the story of the night.

It was good yeah, but it seemed like she was bowing out gracefully and being classy about it. As if she were preparing everybody for her leaving the race...[not that im saying shes going to dropout anytime soon]...it just kinda felt that way.

[Lief 🗽]

It was good and all, yay for her....but im not sold.

It's not like anything she says can possibly change your mind anyway. I think her final answer was great and it will be the story of the night.

It was good yeah, but it seemed like she was bowing out gracefully and being classy about it. As if she were preparing everybody for her leaving the race...[not that im saying shes going to dropout anytime soon]...it just kinda felt that way.

Right, it was a good moment for her, but not one that slows down Obama's momentum or strengthens her position to win the election.

[Angel of Death]

It worked in New Hampshire, no? Problem for her is, that this is not the final "word", with one more debate coming up. Otherwise, I would be more wary about the last impression effect. I remember having a bad feeling about the media playing up that tear moment last time.

Obama is starting to get the hang of this debating thing though.