Why is Indiana so conservative anyways?
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  Why is Indiana so conservative anyways?
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Aizen
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« on: December 31, 2007, 12:18:16 AM »

It just seems out of sync with the rest of the region. Can someone explain this?
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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2007, 12:58:13 AM »

Actually it's not out of sync with the region. Look at the county map and ignore state boundaries.

Indiana lies in the middle of a very conservative region. However all the other states in it contain major cities or less conservative areas that can cancel the votes from that area out. Indiana doesn't, as its largest city is a relatively conservative one with uber-partisan GOP suburbs.
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JSojourner
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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2007, 01:22:09 AM »

Fewer than a hundred years ago, Indiana was almost "ruled" by the Ku Klux Klan.  And it took a sex scandal to end that foolishness.

I've lived here 20 years and still haven't quite figured this place out.  We readily elect Democrats to statewide office.  We sometimes opt for Democrats in certain Congressional districts.  Most of our cities have Democratic mayors.  But the last time we voted for a Democrat for President was 1964.  And barely.

Hoosiers have been known to fall in love with arch-conservative extremists.  People like Congressman Dan Burton, Former Senator Dan Quayle and attorney James Bopp come to mind.

But we like our mainstream conservatives, too.  Dick Lugar couldn't lose an election here if he tried.  And as has been pointed out, conservative Democrats fare pretty well in Indiana.

But woe to the moderate or liberal -- from EITHER party.  Republican Paul Helmke, an outstanding Mayor of Fort Wayne for several terms and the first mayor from a city this size to be chosen to head the U.S. Conference of Mayors, has lost both Senate and Congressional elections here.  Why?  Not conservative enough.

Hoosiers are okay with a liberal or a moderate managing their cities.  But with the exception of two congressional districts (one and seven), they will never elect a liberal to a house or senate seat.  At least not if said candidate campaigns as a liberal.  Jim Jontz got elected a couple times in the old Indiana-5 house district -- but as soon as Republicans highlighted his progressive, pro-environment voting record -- he was toast.

Some of this could be due to the fact that there is a lot of big money here, concentrated in a few places (certain families, certain foundations, etc.)  Some have extremist religious agendas.  (In Indiana-3, the Popp and Freeland families have tried -- sometimes successfully, sometimes not -- to get their Talibagelical friends elected.  Congressman Souder is one of them.)  Lilly used to be conservative -- and when it comes to legislation affecting pharmaceuticals and health care, it still is.  But Lilly is also extremely generous to liberal and non-political religious organizations.  So go figure.

I don't have the answer to your question.  And I live here and practice journalism here.  I have for 20 years.  I simply note the reality.
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user60521
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« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2007, 02:18:48 AM »
« Edited: December 31, 2007, 02:30:38 AM by user60521 »

It has been a mystery to me too.  Even in 92 Clinton won every state around Inidana but still lost it. He also won states like Tennessee, Georgia, Montana, and Arkansas.  I do know that at one point during the early 20th century there was more support for the KKK in Indiana than in any part of the south.  As far as having major cities, that does seem to be a trend.  That rural areas tend to be more republican than urban areas.  But then how do you explain Vermont, where there aren't any major cities, most of the population is fighting development, there are no Mcdonalds' or Wal-Marts, and Bernie Sanders is one of their Senators.
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J. J.
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« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2007, 04:04:47 AM »

It has been a mystery to me too.  Even in 92 Clinton won every state around Inidana but still lost it. He also won states like Tennessee, Georgia, Montana, and Arkansas.  I do know that at one point during the early 20th century there was more support for the KKK in Indiana than in any part of the south.  As far as having major cities, that does seem to be a trend.  That rural areas tend to be more republican than urban areas.  But then how do you explain Vermont, where there aren't any major cities, most of the population is fighting development, there are no Mcdonalds' or Wal-Marts, and Bernie Sanders is one of their Senators.

Vermont has a lot of people who moved in from surrounding states that were basically urban.  I'd also guess it's fairly saturated by MA and NY.  It actually grew rather substantially in the last half of the 20th Century after 1960.  Also Burlington and some the lower counties is where the trend to Democrats began, so it possibly an urban thing.
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Platypus
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« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2007, 08:16:48 AM »

Indiana is basically Georgia with more snow and a far stronger GOP tradition.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2007, 10:51:06 AM »

It's been said before, but I guess it needs saying again:

Illinois - Chicago = Indiana
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2007, 10:59:49 AM »

It's been said before, but I guess it needs saying again:

Illinois - Chicago = Indiana
Ah, but Illinois - Chicago doesn't include anything comparable to Indianapolis. Tongue

Mind you, there is a lot of truth to the assertion anyways (although I'd also look towards Ohio).
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JSojourner
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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2007, 11:01:05 AM »

There are pockets of progressive liberalism in Indiana, just as in Texas or other parts of the South.  In Indiana, the Bloomington area tends to be more liberal...undoubtedly due to the presence of Indiana University's main campus.

Gary and northwest Indiana tend to be moderate to liberal.  More liberal as you approach Chicago.

South Bend and much of Southern Indiana tends to favor conservative Democrats OR Republicans.  But there's a lot less interest in moderates from either party.  And liberals are right out.  

Fort Wayne, where I live, is a hotbed of conservatism.  The only real strain here is between traditional conservatives and fundamentalist Christian conservatives.
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Aizen
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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2007, 01:35:47 PM »

It's been said before, but I guess it needs saying again:

Illinois - Chicago = Indiana


Remove Cook County and Bush beats Kerry 54-46. That's closer to Ohio than Indiana.
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BRTD
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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2007, 02:19:29 PM »

Now add Cincinnati and its suburbs and you basically have the state.
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Boris
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« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2007, 04:29:39 PM »

It's been said before, but I guess it needs saying again:

Illinois - Chicago = Indiana


Remove Cook County and Bush beats Kerry 54-46. That's closer to Ohio than Indiana.

Illinois also has a handful of downstate areas such as the Quad Cities and the East St. Louis area that go Democratic in a 50-50 nationwide race. The only places in Indiana that are Democratic are the Indianapolis area (barely) and the Northwest part adjacent to Chicago. Also, the Chicago suburbs aren't as heavily Republican as their Indiana counterparts (look at how heavily Bush took the suburbs of Indianapolis). The three largest Chicago suburban counties - DuPage, Will, and Lake - went to Bush 54-45, 52-47, and 51-49 respectively. Should the trend continue, the Democratic Nominee in 2008 should have a decent chance at winning these suburban counties were (s)he to win the nationwide popular vote.
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HardRCafé
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« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2007, 04:47:19 PM »

Ah, but Illinois - Chicago doesn't include anything comparable to Indianapolis. Tongue

Multiply Gary by ten, and Indiana would be about the same as Illinois.
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BRTD
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« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2007, 06:09:00 PM »

The Indianapolis area does NOT go Democratic.

Indianapolis proper does yes, and this does contain many decidedly non-urban areas (although they're more spread out and checkered than I would've expected I learned after visiting. There actually are some pretty suburban style areas close to the center of Marion county). But the suburbs everywhere outside of Marion are uber-GOP.
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Person Man
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« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2008, 11:07:37 AM »

Basically, it is my understanding that to BRTD's dismay, Indiana is just a northern leg of the Bible Belt as most people from Indiana are really from, what I head from a professor from Indiana who was the mayor of the town, that most Hoosiers are from Kentucky and Tennessee.
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jokerman
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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2008, 05:54:59 PM »

Basically, it is my understanding that to BRTD's dismay, Indiana is just a northern leg of the Bible Belt as most people from Indiana are really from, what I head from a professor from Indiana who was the mayor of the town, that most Hoosiers are from Kentucky and Tennessee.
Yeah, it's called the butternut region, a long band of counties north of the Ohio River that were settled by Southerners and retained many aspects of Southern culture.  This extends throughout Illinois and Ohio in addition to Indiana, and, as BRTD said, means that the rural areas of the greater part of these three states are conservative.
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BRTD
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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2008, 06:26:12 PM »

It's not the Bible Belt though because while conservative and religious, there are few Southern Baptists.
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StateBoiler
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« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2008, 09:27:17 PM »
« Edited: January 02, 2008, 10:01:40 PM by StateBoiler »

Fewer than a hundred years ago, Indiana was almost "ruled" by the Ku Klux Klan.  And it took a sex scandal to end that foolishness.

I've lived here 20 years and still haven't quite figured this place out.  We readily elect Democrats to statewide office.  We sometimes opt for Democrats in certain Congressional districts.  Most of our cities have Democratic mayors.  But the last time we voted for a Democrat for President was 1964.  And barely.

Hoosiers have been known to fall in love with arch-conservative extremists.  People like Congressman Dan Burton, Former Senator Dan Quayle and attorney James Bopp come to mind.

But we like our mainstream conservatives, too.  Dick Lugar couldn't lose an election here if he tried.  And as has been pointed out, conservative Democrats fare pretty well in Indiana.

But woe to the moderate or liberal -- from EITHER party.  Republican Paul Helmke, an outstanding Mayor of Fort Wayne for several terms and the first mayor from a city this size to be chosen to head the U.S. Conference of Mayors, has lost both Senate and Congressional elections here.  Why?  Not conservative enough.

Hoosiers are okay with a liberal or a moderate managing their cities.  But with the exception of two congressional districts (one and seven), they will never elect a liberal to a house or senate seat.  At least not if said candidate campaigns as a liberal.  Jim Jontz got elected a couple times in the old Indiana-5 house district -- but as soon as Republicans highlighted his progressive, pro-environment voting record -- he was toast.

Some of this could be due to the fact that there is a lot of big money here, concentrated in a few places (certain families, certain foundations, etc.)  Some have extremist religious agendas.  (In Indiana-3, the Popp and Freeland families have tried -- sometimes successfully, sometimes not -- to get their Talibagelical friends elected.  Congressman Souder is one of them.)  Lilly used to be conservative -- and when it comes to legislation affecting pharmaceuticals and health care, it still is.  But Lilly is also extremely generous to liberal and non-political religious organizations.  So go figure.

I don't have the answer to your question.  And I live here and practice journalism here.  I have for 20 years.  I simply note the reality.

Where are you a journalist at?

My entire family all live in Indiana. Primarily in Boone County (the non-Zionsville, primarily cornfield part of Boone County), although I have some other family in Avon (Indy suburb), Lafayette, and Vermillion County right by the Illinois border. I have a lot of connections there and may move to the Columbus area for my employer in the coming year. I also come up to watch the Indy 500 every year.

My grand take on Indiana politics from my family and the people there I have met on my extensive time there is that they stress family values and are naturally inclined toward Republicans, but also understand that as things are currently in this "NAFTA, open borders, everything is Chinese-made world", they are taking taking a hit economically and people are losing jobs and that resonates. Some companies are doing well, Lilly, my company Cummins, but how many of those are really in Indiana? Manufacturing is a large part of the economy still and union membership is pretty big (to me). Farming is slipping to where few outside of corporations can do it and justify it in a business sense. When my grandfather retired as a farmer a few years ago after doing it for a lifetime he said he doesn't know how it's possible.

Simply put, blue-collar Republicans that hate rich people (i.e. Wall Street) and that causes them to have a populist streak.

Indiana is the type of state I think a Mike Huckabee would be perfectly suited for as a conservative-style populist. It's also a state that loves the Birch Bayh/Evan Bayh type of Democrat.
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auburntiger
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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2008, 12:11:10 AM »

It's not the Bible Belt though because while conservative and religious, there are few Southern Baptists.

FYI, The Bible Belt doesn't refer to just Southern Baptists. You could make an argument that all the 2004 Bush states are part of the Bible belt, given that moral values were the main issue.

Traditionally, the Bible belt states are the confederate states adding Kentucky and Oklahoma (little Dixie that is), subtracting parts of Florida (Orlando and south of it)
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BRTD
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« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2008, 12:46:41 AM »

It's not the Bible Belt though because while conservative and religious, there are few Southern Baptists.

FYI, The Bible Belt doesn't refer to just Southern Baptists. You could make an argument that all the 2004 Bush states are part of the Bible belt, given that moral values were the main issue.

You do know what a "belt" refers to when referring to a geographic area, right?

Traditionally, the Bible belt states are the confederate states adding Kentucky and Oklahoma (little Dixie that is), subtracting parts of Florida (Orlando and south of it)

Correct. Not every religious conservative area. If it is then it's a majority of the country area-wide.
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auburntiger
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« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2008, 01:08:53 AM »

It's not the Bible Belt though because while conservative and religious, there are few Southern Baptists.

FYI, The Bible Belt doesn't refer to just Southern Baptists. You could make an argument that all the 2004 Bush states are part of the Bible belt, given that moral values were the main issue.

You do know what a "belt" refers to when referring to a geographic area, right?

Traditionally, the Bible belt states are the confederate states adding Kentucky and Oklahoma (little Dixie that is), subtracting parts of Florida (Orlando and south of it)

Correct. Not every religious conservative area. If it is then it's a majority of the country area-wide.

I misused "belt" in my first quotation. I was referring to the media's delegation of the Bush 2004 states as "Jesusland"
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Verily
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« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2008, 01:43:52 AM »

It's not the Bible Belt though because while conservative and religious, there are few Southern Baptists.

FYI, The Bible Belt doesn't refer to just Southern Baptists. You could make an argument that all the 2004 Bush states are part of the Bible belt, given that moral values were the main issue.

Traditionally, the Bible belt states are the confederate states adding Kentucky and Oklahoma (little Dixie that is), subtracting parts of Florida (Orlando and south of it)

No, it can't. The term "Bible Belt" specifically refers to Southern Baptists though Mormons are more conservative and various other states are also theocratic.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2008, 10:11:54 AM »

It's not the Bible Belt though because while conservative and religious, there are few Southern Baptists.
Well they split from the Southern Baptists at the time the Baptists split into northern and southern wings. (While these are the parts of the north with the most Confederacy sympathizers - Maryland, Kentucky and parts of Missouri aren`t in the north - the numbers involved are  not comparable with the numbers of Unionists in, well, any part of the South really.
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Jacobtm
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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2008, 03:37:30 PM »

If Indiana's state line extended just a bit more west, and included Cook County, IL, it would've voted for Kerry in '04, and Illinois would be the conservative state...
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JSojourner
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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2008, 07:15:42 PM »



Where are you a journalist at?

I spent 12 years as news director of several radio stations based in Fort Wayne.  I left in 2000 to start a completely unrelated business, but I also free-lance. Don't want to share too many specifics publicly.

My entire family all live in Indiana. Primarily in Boone County (the non-Zionsville, primarily cornfield part of Boone County), although I have some other family in Avon (Indy suburb), Lafayette, and Vermillion County right by the Illinois border. I have a lot of connections there and may move to the Columbus area for my employer in the coming year. I also come up to watch the Indy 500 every year.

I have come to love the state, if not the politics.  The cost of living is so low.  When we first bought our home, I couldn't believe how big it was and how cheap.  I used to live in Chicago and there, this home would cost $300,000.  Maybe more out in Naperville or somewhere like that.  Fort Wayne is great because it's small enough that there are no traffic headaches and larger enough that there are quality cultural activities and some academia.  And if you really are jonesing for the big city feel, we are five hours from Cleveland or Detroit, two hours from Indy and four hours from Chicago.  Toledo, Columbus and Dayton aren't far either.

As to Columbus, I hope you move there.  It's beautiful there, especially in the fall.  You're not too far from Brown County, where the fall colors are spectacular.  Maybe not by New England standards, but pretty darn good for Indiana!


My grand take on Indiana politics from my family and the people there I have met on my extensive time there is that they stress family values and are naturally inclined toward Republicans, but also understand that as things are currently in this "NAFTA, open borders, everything is Chinese-made world", they are taking taking a hit economically and people are losing jobs and that resonates. Some companies are doing well, Lilly, my company Cummins, but how many of those are really in Indiana? Manufacturing is a large part of the economy still and union membership is pretty big (to me). Farming is slipping to where few outside of corporations can do it and justify it in a business sense. When my grandfather retired as a farmer a few years ago after doing it for a lifetime he said he doesn't know how it's possible.

Simply put, blue-collar Republicans that hate rich people (i.e. Wall Street) and that causes them to have a populist streak.

I sure hope that thinking takes root here. I do see some of that.  But at least here in Northeast Indiaan, if a candidate makes a big deal about opposing abortion rights and hating gay people, he is in. 

Cummins is a good company.  My wife works for one of your customers up here in the truck business and they love Cummins product.


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