12th/20th Amendment Procedures
Beefalow and the Consumer:
Which Congress gets to count and certify the electoral votes? Is it the current Congress, or the incoming Congress? In the event of a 269-269 tie, which Congress gets to vote for President and Vice President? The current Congress, or the incoming Congress? Who presides over the Senate? The current Vice President?
Currently, Republicans control 26 state delegations in the House, and 51 of the Senate seats (plus Cheney's tiebreak). So, in the current Congress, Bush and Cheney would win a 269-269 tie (baring shenanigans from rogue Republicans).
But the makeup of the next Congress is very much in doubt. Especially the Senate. A really interesting scenario is that the House doesn't choose a President (no majority of state delegations), and the Senate votes on the Vice-President, who would then become President. If the Senate is tied 50-50, the President of the Senate will be break the tie for the person who becomes President... So Dick Cheney could cast the vote to make himself President???
(I find the wording of the 12th and 20th Amendments very confusing, so I'm not exactly sure how this works)
Bogart:
If the election goes to the House, the states vote as a delegation. If they are unable to determine a winner by Jan. 20, the Vice President becomes Acting President (Dick Cheney) until they are able to come to a decision.
According to www.usconstitution.net, senators vote individually but only amongst the top two vote-getters for Vice President provided there is 2/3 quorum. If there is a tie, the current VP votes and could vote for himself.
The most interesting scenario is if the EC is tied and the election goes to the House which cannot agree by Inauguration Day. Cheney then becomes Acting President, remains VP and is, in a sense, VP-elect for the new administration. If this deadlock went on for some time, would Cheney be required to appoint an Acting Vice President who would serve until the new President is elected by the House and Cheney resumes his role as Vice President..
Beefalow and the Consumer:
Quote from: bogart414 on August 05, 2004, 04:19:55 PM
If the election goes to the House, the states vote as a delegation.
Yes, that's why I mentioned that in the current House, the Republicans control 26 delegations. The current House would elect Bush. That could change.
And what happens if the House remains deadlocked, and can't choose a President (the Democrats hold up the appointment of judges indefinitely - what do you think they'd do if the presidency were on the line)?
Quote from: bogart414 on August 05, 2004, 04:19:55 PM
If they are unable to determine a winner by Jan. 20, the Vice President becomes Acting President (Dick Cheney) until they are able to come to a decision.
According to www.usconstitution.net, senators vote individually but only amongst the top two vote-getters for Vice President provided there is 2/3 quorum. If there is a tie, the current VP votes and could vote for himself. The most interesting scenario is that the House cannot decide by Inauguration Day and Cheney becomes Acting President and must also vote for himself to become Vice President in a new administration. Would he as Acting President be required to appoint an Acting VP who would serve until the House elects a new President.
This seems like a very likely scenario to me.
Another interesting one, and quite feasible, is a Bush-Edwards administration. I'd kinda like that, actually.
Bogart:
Quote from: Beef on August 05, 2004, 04:29:25 PM
Quote from: bogart414 on August 05, 2004, 04:19:55 PM
If the election goes to the House, the states vote as a delegation.
Yes, that's why I mentioned that in the current House, the Republicans control 26 delegations. The current House would elect Bush. That could change.
And what happens if the House remains deadlocked, and can't choose a President (the Democrats hold up the appointment of judges indefinitely - what do you think they'd do if the presidency were on the line)?
Quote from: bogart414 on August 05, 2004, 04:19:55 PM
If they are unable to determine a winner by Jan. 20, the Vice President becomes Acting President (Dick Cheney) until they are able to come to a decision.
According to www.usconstitution.net, senators vote individually but only amongst the top two vote-getters for Vice President provided there is 2/3 quorum. If there is a tie, the current VP votes and could vote for himself. The most interesting scenario is that the House cannot decide by Inauguration Day and Cheney becomes Acting President and must also vote for himself to become Vice President in a new administration. Would he as Acting President be required to appoint an Acting VP who would serve until the House elects a new President.
This seems like a very likely scenario to me.
Another interesting one, and quite feasible, is a Bush-Edwards administration. I'd kinda like that, actually.
There are quite a number of very interesting possibilities. Think of 2000. In the same situation described above, Gore would have become Acting President only to have it taken away.
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자):
Quote from: bogart414 on August 05, 2004, 04:19:55 PM
If the election goes to the House, the states vote as a delegation. If they are unable to determine a winner by Jan. 20, the Vice President becomes Acting President (Dick Cheney) until they are able to come to a decision.
According to www.usconstitution.net, senators vote individually but only amongst the top two vote-getters for Vice President provided there is 2/3 quorum. If there is a tie, the current VP votes and could vote for himself.
There has been considerable debate in various threads on this forum as to whether or not the VP can break that tie. The 12th amendment explicitly sets a different standard for the quorom required for election of a Vice President, so some have argured that the standard mentioned for that vote in the 12th Amendent calling for "a majority of the whole number" should be taken literally and that the Vp cannot break a tie and that even a 50-49 vote would be insuficient since 50 is a not a majority of the whole number, i.e., 100 senators.
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