Religion - I am A?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

plus the idea that any human can forgive sins is blasphemous.

Really, then why did Jesus give the Apostles such power in John 21: 22-23?

because that's different from some wordly institution deciding they can grant such power.

[12th Doctor]

Not dunking. Like Jesus was.

You are opposed to infant Baptism then?

Yes 100% baptism is for believers show they have changed in side. Baptism is an outward showing of what happen inside. Therefore infants baptism is wrong.

Do you have a bible handy?

Always.

Good.

Turn to Jn 3:5 and Mk 16:16

"Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."

So Jesus states that baptism is nessesary to enter the Kingdom.  Correct?

[Keystone Phil]

plus the idea that any human can forgive sins is blasphemous.

NO. See this is where you are going to try to change what we believe and I won't stand for it. The priest does not forgive, God does. No where is it stated that the priest forgives us.

then what's the point of the confession?

It helps us reach God and ask his forgiveness. We want God to know that we are truely sorry for our sins.

[Josh/Devilman88]

Not dunking. Like Jesus was.

You are opposed to infant Baptism then?

Yes 100% baptism is for believers show they have changed in side. Baptism is an outward showing of what happen inside. Therefore infants baptism is wrong.

Do you have a bible handy?

Always.

Good.

Turn to Jn 3:5 and Mk 16:16

"Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."

So Jesus states that baptism is nessesary to enter the Kingdom.  Correct?

No,
john 3
3   Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

He said MAN.. not child....

5   Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

He is is talking about the Holy Spirit coming into you when you are born again.

[12th Doctor]

plus the idea that any human can forgive sins is blasphemous.

Really, then why did Jesus give the Apostles such power in John 21: 22-23?

because that's different from some wordly institution deciding they can grant such power.

No, the Apostles then granted that power to others who they regarded as upright.

This is instated when Jesus brethed on them.  A practice still done at ordination today.

Now, look at 2 Cor 5:17-20

Here, Paul specifically discusses the ministy of reconciliation

Then, look at James

James 5:13-15 states

13
Is anyone among you suffering? He should pray. Is anyone in good spirits? He should sing praise.
14
Is anyone among you sick? 6 He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord,
15
and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven. 7

Indicating that this power was passed on.

[Keystone Phil]

Not dunking. Like Jesus was.

You are opposed to infant Baptism then?

Yes 100% baptism is for believers show they have changed in side. Baptism is an outward showing of what happen inside. Therefore infants baptism is wrong.

Do you have a bible handy?

Always.

Good.

Turn to Jn 3:5 and Mk 16:16

"Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."

So Jesus states that baptism is nessesary to enter the Kingdom.  Correct?

No,
john 3
3   Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

He said MAN.. not child....

Josh. cmon. Man was often used in the Bible to refer to the human race. Man could mean man, woman, child...

[12th Doctor]

Not dunking. Like Jesus was.

You are opposed to infant Baptism then?

Yes 100% baptism is for believers show they have changed in side. Baptism is an outward showing of what happen inside. Therefore infants baptism is wrong.

Do you have a bible handy?

Always.

Good.

Turn to Jn 3:5 and Mk 16:16

"Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."

So Jesus states that baptism is nessesary to enter the Kingdom.  Correct?

No,
john 3
3   Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

He said MAN.. not child....

5   Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

He is is talking about the Holy Spirit coming into you when you are born again.

Oh, really

Look at Mk 10:14

When Jesus saw this he became indignant and said to them, "Let the children come to me; do not prevent them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

[12th Doctor]

For that matter, look at Lk 18:15

Jesus says the same thing.

[12th Doctor]

Still following Josh?

[Josh/Devilman88]

looking things up

[The Duke]

Look, I am not a Catholic and I have my own issues with Catholicism, but the distortion of Catholic doctrine from Josh and BRTD is unbelievable.

They pray through Saints and Mary because before Martin Luther and Protestantism, all Christian faiths prayed Saints.  It is not Catholics who have a novel system, it is the Protestants who broke from tradition.

They confess to Priests because it is important to say aloud that you ask for forgiveness, and taking that difficult step is important in testing you to see if you are truly sorry.

A the presence of Priests in confession is only to formalize the ritual, not to grant forgiveness.

[12th Doctor]

Now Josh, lets turn to Col 2:11-12.

Paul tells us here

11
In him 5 you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ.
12
You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

Paul is asserting here that Baptism has become the new sign of the faith, replacing circumcision.  Circumcision, was of course, a ritual preform on infants, not grow people, as a sign of entering God's kingdom.

[12th Doctor]

Look, I am not a Catholic and I have my own issues with Catholicism, but the distortion of Catholic doctrine from Josh and BRTD is unbelievable.

They pray through Saints and Mary because before Martin Luther and Protestantism, all Christian faiths prayed Saints.  It is not Catholics who have a novel system, it is the Protestants who broke from tradition.

They confess to Priests because it is important to say aloud that you ask for forgiveness, and taking that difficult step is important in testing you to see if you are truly sorry.

A the presence of Priests in confession is only to formalize the ritual, not to grant forgiveness.

Well put Ford.  The Holy Spirit acts through the preist, as he acted through the Apostles.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

They pray through Saints and Mary because before Martin Luther and Protestantism, all Christian faiths prayed Saints.  It is not Catholics who have a novel system, it is the Protestants who broke from tradition.

there was no other Christian faiths. well there was but they were burnt at the stake as heretics. Luther was a bastard though, even if he did found my church.

[The Duke]

They pray through Saints and Mary because before Martin Luther and Protestantism, all Christian faiths prayed Saints.  It is not Catholics who have a novel system, it is the Protestants who broke from tradition.

there was no other Christian faiths. well there was but they were burnt at the stake as heretics. Luther was a bastard though, even if he did found my church.

So before 1517, there were no Armenian, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Nubian, or Coptic Christians?

For an anti-Western radical, you sure have a western-centric view of history.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Like I said earlier, those churches are basically Catholicism without the Pope.

I can't believe Brambila hasn't jumped in this one yet. I want him to lecture me on how I'm going to hell for buying a pack of condoms tonight.

[12th Doctor]

Now, Josh, what can we gather from all of this?

Well, we see that, in order to enter the kingdom, one must be baptized.

If is twice mentioned in the Gospels that the children inherit God's kingdom.  How can this be if they are not Baptised?  Doesn't make sence.

Paul, makes the argueement that Baptism has replaced Circumcision, an infant ritual and a sign of entering God's Kingdom.

[The Duke]

Now, Josh, what can we gather from all of this?

Well, we see that, in order to enter the kingdom, one must be baptized.

If is twice mentioned in the Gospels that the children inherit God's kingdom.  How can this be if they are not Baptised?  Doesn't make sence.

Paul, makes the argueement that Baptism has replaced Circumcision, an infant ritual and a sign of entering God's Kingdom.

Its' possible for the unbaptized infants to inherit Gods kingdom if they do not inherit it as children, but at some later date as baptized adults.  Much as politicians say "The children are the future.", what they really mean is that we should build a better future for our children to enjoy at some later date when they are grown.

[12th Doctor]

Now, we reach the main problem for you personally, and that is that the infant cannot speak for themselves.

First, look at Matthew 8:5-13

5
4 When he entered Capernaum, 5 a centurion approached him and appealed to him,
6
saying, "Lord, my servant is lying at home paralyzed, suffering dreadfully."
7
He said to him, "I will come and cure him."
8
The centurion said in reply, 6 "Lord, I am not worthy to have you enter under my roof; only say the word and my servant will be healed.
9
For I too am a person subject to authority, with soldiers subject to me. And I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes; and to another, 'Come here,' and he comes; and to my slave, 'Do this,' and he does it."
10
When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, "Amen, I say to you, in no one in Israel 7 have I found such faith.
11
I say to you, 8 many will come from the east and the west, and will recline with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob at the banquet in the kingdom of heaven,
12
but the children of the kingdom will be driven out into the outer darkness, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth."
13
And Jesus said to the centurion, "You may go; as you have believed, let it be done for you." And at that very hour (his) servant was healed.

Here, the faith of the Centurian, not the faith of the servant, is responsible for the servant being healed.  Indicating that the faith of another can be grounds for the spiritual and physical healing of others.  In Catholicism, we call this person a "Godparent".

[Josh/Devilman88]

Acts 2
38   Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Right hear It says to REPENT and be baptized.  How can a baby Repent? they can't....

John 14:6
  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No where in there does it says you have to be baptized.

[12th Doctor]

Now, let us look at Mt 15:21-28

21
9 Then Jesus went from that place and withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon.
22
And behold, a Canaanite woman of that district came and called out, "Have pity on me, Lord, Son of David! My daughter is tormented by a demon."
23
But he did not say a word in answer to her. His disciples came and asked him, "Send her away, for she keeps calling out after us."
24
10 He said in reply, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
25
But the woman came and did him homage, saying, "Lord, help me."
26
He said in reply, "It is not right to take the food of the children 11 and throw it to the dogs."
27
She said, "Please, Lord, for even the dogs eat the scraps that fall from the table of their masters."
28
Then Jesus said to her in reply, "O woman, great is your faith! 12 Let it be done for you as you wish." And her daughter was healed from that hour.

Here, the woman's daughter is tormented by a demon, but the woman's faith brings about the spiritual healing of her daughter.  This again makes the case that the faith of others is a worthy stand in.

[Nation]

Supersoulty, although I was raised a Catholic, I do not consider myself one today. I was baptised as a Catholic very early on (and that can't be undone ), but I never went through confirmation. What role does confirmation play?

[12th Doctor]

Acts 2
38   Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Right hear It says to REPENT and be baptized.  How can a baby Repent? they can't....

John 14:6
  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No where in there does it says you have to be baptized.

He was speaking to adults and, as I have shown, the faith of others can be judged a worthy stand in.

[Josh/Devilman88]

Now, let us look at Mt 15:21-28

21
9 Then Jesus went from that place and withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon.
22
And behold, a Canaanite woman of that district came and called out, "Have pity on me, Lord, Son of David! My daughter is tormented by a demon."
23
But he did not say a word in answer to her. His disciples came and asked him, "Send her away, for she keeps calling out after us."
24
10 He said in reply, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
25
But the woman came and did him homage, saying, "Lord, help me."
26
He said in reply, "It is not right to take the food of the children 11 and throw it to the dogs."
27
She said, "Please, Lord, for even the dogs eat the scraps that fall from the table of their masters."
28
Then Jesus said to her in reply, "O woman, great is your faith! 12 Let it be done for you as you wish." And her daughter was healed from that hour.

Here, the woman's daughter is tormented by a demon, but the woman's faith brings about the spiritual healing of her daughter.  This again makes the case that the faith of others is a worthy stand in.

Your mother can't save you. You have to REPENT to get saved.

[12th Doctor]

Supersoulty, although I was raised a Catholic, I do not consider myself one today. I was baptised as a Catholic very early on (and that can't be undone ), but I never went through confirmation. What role does confirmation play?

Ah, now Confirmation is when you are sealed into the faith, so to speak.  I'll answer that one in a bit.  Let me shot this dog first.