How Labour have implemented the 2005 Conservative Mainfesto
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  How Labour have implemented the 2005 Conservative Mainfesto
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Author Topic: How Labour have implemented the 2005 Conservative Mainfesto  (Read 5471 times)
afleitch
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« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2007, 12:26:08 PM »


Perhaps public spending need not have been accelerated to the extent that it has had the public services not been starved of cash beforehand

Dave

The problem today is the same problem as now; no one has a clue on how to spend the money. Spending on the NHS may have doubled under Labour (it doubled under the Tories too) The NHS in particular needs a full blown audit. As for bureaucrats, that should be up to individual hospitals and local trusts as opposed to centrally imposed consultants to the tune of £7bn a year.
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Democratic Hawk
LucysBeau
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« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2007, 12:29:20 PM »


And as for the whole 'tax/stability' thing. You can have a stable economy with tax cuts and it's what our economy is crying out for.

As well as lower Smiley interest rates to boost growth. Default becomes a problem when the cost of borrowing is so high people can't afford to pay it back. Punitive interest rates are no longer tolerated by voters and who can blame them?

I'm a cautious sod when it comes to taxation; hence all the reservations I have with Darling's, Osborne's and Cable's proposals. I sceptical of any tax cuts born out of some ideological whim founded on freedom, any more than I do any tax rises born out of some dogmatic folly founded on equality

Ideally, Corporation Tax should be tapered in relation to number of jobs created in the UK. More jobs =  more employment = more monies raised from Income Tax and National Insurance. This would offset the loss of revenues derived from Corporation Tax. Of course, this is something that would have to be done with all caution. Ideals are one thing, of course, practicalities quite another. It might breach transnational rules I don't know.

Dave
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LucysBeau
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« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2007, 12:38:42 PM »


Perhaps public spending need not have been accelerated to the extent that it has had the public services not been starved of cash beforehand

Dave

The problem today is the same problem as now; no one has a clue on how to spend the money. Spending on the NHS may have doubled under Labour (it doubled under the Tories too) The NHS in particular needs a full blown audit. As for bureaucrats, that should be up to individual hospitals and local trusts as opposed to centrally imposed consultants to the tune of £7bn a year.

I'd always believed that things worked more effectively and efficiently at a decentralised level of operation but having seen it in effect in education, it seems to be that this has only served to increase the number of admin and ancilliary staff; well in my experience anyway

There are three areas in which the NHS should be improved:

- An eradication of the 'postcode' lottery
- An eradication of these bugs
- That very sore need for more NHS dentists

I don't know about you but I think any trainee dentist intending to work exclusively in private practice should pay their own costs of training; those who intend  to do part-private and part-NHS should be self-funded and state-funded pro rata; whole those who intend to do NHS-work alone should be totally state-funded. I'm not sure how it works at the moment

Dave
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tomm_86
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« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2007, 04:40:42 PM »

Andy, you almost say that like it's a good thing Wink
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afleitch
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« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2007, 07:11:01 PM »

I didn't realise this thread was going to become a regular place for posting stolen ideas Smiley

Next up as announced in the Guardian

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/gordonbrown/story/0,,2198584,00.html

Brown Pledges a Bill of Rights


As announced by David Cameron: June 26th 2007

http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=news.story.page&obj_id=130578

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Democratic Hawk
LucysBeau
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« Reply #55 on: October 25, 2007, 10:25:40 AM »

I didn't realise this thread was going to become a regular place for posting stolen ideas Smiley

Next up as announced in the Guardian

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/gordonbrown/story/0,,2198584,00.html

Brown Pledges a Bill of Rights


As announced by David Cameron: June 26th 2007

http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=news.story.page&obj_id=130578


Will the government's proposed Bill of Rights be identical to that of Cameron, however Wink? From the article, seemingly not. Cameron will oppose the government's plans. I'd rather the government best Smiley anything the Conservatives have to offer

Indeed, this Bill of Rights would co-exist alongside the Human Rights Act. Very different from the Conservative idea

Dave
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afleitch
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« Reply #56 on: October 25, 2007, 05:52:23 PM »

I didn't realise this thread was going to become a regular place for posting stolen ideas Smiley

Next up as announced in the Guardian

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/gordonbrown/story/0,,2198584,00.html

Brown Pledges a Bill of Rights


As announced by David Cameron: June 26th 2007

http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=news.story.page&obj_id=130578


Will the government's proposed Bill of Rights be identical to that of Cameron, however Wink? From the article, seemingly not. Cameron will oppose the government's plans. I'd rather the government best Smiley anything the Conservatives have to offer

Indeed, this Bill of Rights would co-exist alongside the Human Rights Act. Very different from the Conservative idea

Dave

So you agree they stole the idea itself even if they plan a different execution? Brilliant Grin I'm getting somewhere!
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LucysBeau
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« Reply #57 on: October 25, 2007, 09:55:18 PM »


So you agree they stole the idea itself even if they plan a different execution? Brilliant Grin I'm getting somewhere!

Well, if they are plannning a different execution then it isn't the same is it Wink?

Dave
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afleitch
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« Reply #58 on: October 26, 2007, 02:40:17 AM »


So you agree they stole the idea itself even if they plan a different execution? Brilliant Grin I'm getting somewhere!

Well, if they are plannning a different execution then it isn't the same is it Wink?

Dave

Of course it's not the same, It would be a little too obvious if what they adopted was exactly the same Smiley That isn't the point I've been making all along; everything they propose is a poor rehash of Tory policy (often policy they have recently opposed such as changes to IHT for example) and this is the latest example (there will be more soon if the grapevine is correct)
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2007, 09:52:45 AM »

I'm just watching this week's PMQs and I think the whole Speaker slap-down's been misinterpreted. The Speaker's not attacking Brown directly, he's telling off the whole House.
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afleitch
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« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2007, 10:02:34 AM »

I'm just watching this week's PMQs and I think the whole Speaker slap-down's been misinterpreted. The Speaker's not attacking Brown directly, he's telling off the whole House.

The Labour whips are not maintaining discipline within the party. Much of the Conservative brew-ha-ha was because Gordon accused Cameron of 'misleading the house' and then decided thats not really what he meant at all. I can accept that, but Gordon needs to learn how to perform during PMQ's. He really hasn't learned how to be PM. Some people glide into the job and others learn, but he's in danger of pissing off the mandarins who prepare a policy (like bin charges) and are hours away from releasing it before the plug is pulled and the 'Flunking Fist' performs yet another u-turn on policy.
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LucysBeau
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« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2007, 11:45:53 AM »


So you agree they stole the idea itself even if they plan a different execution? Brilliant Grin I'm getting somewhere!

Well, if they are plannning a different execution then it isn't the same is it Wink?

Dave

Of course it's not the same, It would be a little too obvious if what they adopted was exactly the same Smiley That isn't the point I've been making all along; everything they propose is a poor rehash of Tory policy (often policy they have recently opposed such as changes to IHT for example) and this is the latest example (there will be more soon if the grapevine is correct)

If and when Labour introduce initiatives which match Tory proposals then I'll acknowledge certain things are being stolen but not until. I've already done IHT, non-domiciles and flight tax to death and as you know I'm almost as unamored with Labour proposals as I am the Tory ones

As far as rights are concerned, the 2005 Labour Manifesto reads:

We are proud to have brought in the Human Rights Act, enabling British citizens to take action in British courts rather than having to wait years to seek redress in Strasbourg. But rights must be balanced by responsibilities . So well will continue to bear down on abusive or frivolous claims.

Indeed, I consider a Bill of Rights to be the logical next step to take. A Conservative government intends to scrap the Human Rights Act, this government does not

Dave
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afleitch
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« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2007, 07:42:26 PM »

David Cameron. June 14th 2007.
http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=news.story.page&obj_id=137126

Announced by Gordon Brown on November 6th
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Democratic Hawk
LucysBeau
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« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2007, 11:55:10 PM »


I'd need to ascertain what the Government Bill actually seeks to do before commenting on this one Wink

What I will say, however, is that family-orientated progressive Smiley steps towards better employment practices, such as flexibility, is pretty much in keeping with Labour values

Labour has, since 1997, rightfully, followed a progressive agenda on work-related policy and long may that endure. Forward Smiley not back

Dave
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afleitch
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« Reply #64 on: November 07, 2007, 08:41:17 AM »

Labour has, since 1997, rightfully, followed a progressive agenda on work-related policy and long may that endure. Forward Smiley not back

'That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party. Next on BBC1...'

Smiley
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Democratic Hawk
LucysBeau
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« Reply #65 on: November 07, 2007, 01:01:28 PM »

Labour has, since 1997, rightfully, followed a progressive agenda on work-related policy and long may that endure. Forward Smiley not back

'That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party. Next on BBC1...'

Smiley

Smiley
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