Is life becoming too complex for your average person?

[ProgressiveModerate]

I wonder if this plays a bigger role in our politics than is given credit for - particularly as it relates to the anger Trump has been able to tap into.

The big thing is the internet has made the world more connected. This means that suddenly, the scope of people's social networks have expanded. This means you're in a much larger pool when it comes to jobs, dating, and heck even seeking social validation. Social media algorithms are also hyper-individualized and can take advantage of certain human biases in very subtle ways.

Baseline level of education needed for work is increasing - even blue collar jobs generally require more specialized training than before. And then there's AI which seems like it may accelerate this in some white collar spaces.

There are also just an increasing number of smaller logistical things that people are expected to manage - insurance, multiple credit cards, investment portfolios, subscriptions, internet and phone bills, ect.

Finally, social norms and expectations are increasingly vague. On the one hand, this allows people more freedom to define themselves but also means people who feel lost don't really have a clear model to follow - perhaps hence why we see so many young men turn to the likes of Andrew Tate.

If you're someone who's generally "intelligent", there's a good chance you don't mind or even personally benefit from a lot of the things on this list, but I could definitely understand how for others, its frustrating.

Do you think there is some truth to the argument that life today is just fundamentally more complex, and it's contributed to Trump's brand of politics?

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

I think a lot of people find comfort in explaining their lot in life in as simple terms as possible. In a world that seems to be changing faster and faster there's also a lot of comfort in someone who says that as long as you jump when they tell you, they'll slow things down and make things good again.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

This has been true for a long time. I don't think humans as a species were ever meant to be more than hunter/gatherers in small tribes/groups.

[インターネット掲示板ユーザー Punxsutawney Phil]

Do you think there is some truth to the argument that life today is just fundamentally more complex, and it's contributed to Trump's brand of politics?

I guess I overall agree.
I came to a similar conclusion months ago. The changes brought on by social media and other shifts have produced a sort of vacuum which leaves people wanting simple answers, and this makes people like Trump have a more seductive appeal than they otherwise would.

[emailking]

Don't know how average I am but I feel like things have gotten more complex for me in the last 5-10 years and not in a good way.

[DaleCooper]

I don't think that "complex" is the right word, but I agree that the lack of social norms is a huge problem. It allows people to get away with being more anti-social, especially when compared with everyone's use of social media.

[Wrong about 2024 Ghost]

I think that in addition to destruction of institutions (including the Fourth Estate), the public's time is increasingly stolen in countless small ways (that add up to a very significant drain on the public's attention and energy): advertising, corporate cost offloading, dark patterns, regulatory capture, the list goes on and on. (And while the Republicans typically encourage it, the Democrats seldom do more than stick their fingers in the holes in the damn; abuses like this won't end by legal settlements for a tiny fraction of the profits made by them. They'll end when abuses against the public result in bankruptcy and ruin for stockholders, when CEOs and boardroom are tossed in jail for years (or executed, Chinese-style) for corporate crimes.)

[GAinDC]

Humans are meant to live in small, tight knit groups that forage, hunt and grow just enough food to survive. Anything more complex than that is bound to make us crazy.

[Adjective-Statement]

Not complex, unequal and precarious. This kind of thinking inevitably wastes time going after machines that could, in fact, make life easier for everyone. They're not to blame and you're playing into the oligarchs' hands if you don't stay focused on who's making everyone's lives worse.

[Sir Mohamed]

In a way, yes.

But part of the problem is the masses' desire for anything shortlived. The world and politics are too complex for 1 minute TikTok clips and an informed decision by voters requires more time and effort than putting stuff into such clips or on bumper stickers. That's also why we shouldn't have celebrety candidates for public office.

[Progressive Pessimist]

In general, I subscribe to the notion that humanity as a whole complicated its existence more than necessary.

[For Trump, everything. For immigrants, the law]

As others have said, our brains have not yet truly adapted to the times we live in. It's not just young people.

[ProgressiveModerate]

In a way, yes.

But part of the problem is the masses' desire for anything shortlived. The world and politics are too complex for 1 minute TikTok clips and an informed decision by voters requires more time and effort than putting stuff into such clips or on bumper stickers. That's also why we shouldn't have celebrety candidates for public office.

I think even people's short attention spans can't be fully blamed on individuals, it's another consequence of our increasingly "complex" world where the internet and technology make everything faster and algorithms intentionally make them addicting.

[ProgressiveModerate]

I think that in addition to destruction of institutions (including the Fourth Estate), the public's time is increasingly stolen in countless small ways (that add up to a very significant drain on the public's attention and energy): advertising, corporate cost offloading, dark patterns, regulatory capture, the list goes on and on. (And while the Republicans typically encourage it, the Democrats seldom do more than stick their fingers in the holes in the damn; abuses like this won't end by legal settlements for a tiny fraction of the profits made by them. They'll end when abuses against the public result in bankruptcy and ruin for stockholders, when CEOs and boardroom are tossed in jail for years (or executed, Chinese-style) for corporate crimes.)

This is why I was glad about some of the Biden admin's smaller moves like Click to Cancel or making it easier for Passengers to get refunds on their flight. They might seem like small things, but in the end their giving time and energy back to the general public.

Not really sure if these are things you can get the general public to care enough about to see as a political issue since they're all relatively small things - perhaps one place to start would be making taxes simpler so people don't have to lean on TurboTax all the time. Taxes are a pretty universal experience and basically everyone hates the physical process of filing them.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

I think that in addition to destruction of institutions (including the Fourth Estate), the public's time is increasingly stolen in countless small ways (that add up to a very significant drain on the public's attention and energy): advertising, corporate cost offloading, dark patterns, regulatory capture, the list goes on and on. (And while the Republicans typically encourage it, the Democrats seldom do more than stick their fingers in the holes in the damn; abuses like this won't end by legal settlements for a tiny fraction of the profits made by them. They'll end when abuses against the public result in bankruptcy and ruin for stockholders, when CEOs and boardroom are tossed in jail for years (or executed, Chinese-style) for corporate crimes.)

This is why I was glad about some of the Biden admin's smaller moves like Click to Cancel or making it easier for Passengers to get refunds on their flight. They might seem like small things, but in the end their giving time and energy back to the general public.

Not really sure if these are things you can get the general public to care enough about to see as a political issue since they're all relatively small things - perhaps one place to start would be making taxes simpler so people don't have to lean on TurboTax all the time. Taxes are a pretty universal experience and basically everyone hates the physical process of filing them.

After the Republicans took back Congress in 1994, President Clinton focused on small things. The mainstream media was dismissive but the public liked it.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

In a way, yes.

But part of the problem is the masses' desire for anything shortlived. The world and politics are too complex for 1 minute TikTok clips and an informed decision by voters requires more time and effort than putting stuff into such clips or on bumper stickers. That's also why we shouldn't have celebrety candidates for public office.

I think even people's short attention spans can't be fully blamed on individuals, it's another consequence of our increasingly "complex" world where the internet and technology make everything faster and algorithms intentionally make them addicting.

This is actually not clear, I heard an episode on this just yesterday from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation called Future Tense.
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/futuretense/understanding-attention-and-a-craving-for-certainty/104948544
Understanding attention and a craving for certainty

You probably didn't even realize you did it, but they pointed out an internal contradiction in what you said: how can attention spans be short when people can get addicted to things for hours on end?

[ProgressiveModerate]

In a way, yes.

But part of the problem is the masses' desire for anything shortlived. The world and politics are too complex for 1 minute TikTok clips and an informed decision by voters requires more time and effort than putting stuff into such clips or on bumper stickers. That's also why we shouldn't have celebrety candidates for public office.

I think even people's short attention spans can't be fully blamed on individuals, it's another consequence of our increasingly "complex" world where the internet and technology make everything faster and algorithms intentionally make them addicting.

This is actually not clear, I heard an episode on this just yesterday from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation called Future Tense.
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/futuretense/understanding-attention-and-a-craving-for-certainty/104948544
Understanding attention and a craving for certainty

You probably didn't even realize you did it, but they pointed out an internal contradiction in what you said: how can attention spans be short when people can get addicted to things for hours on end?

Thanks for sharing - I’ll see if I can give it a listen tomorrow!

My initial rebuttal would be that scrolling social media for hours isn’t really long term focus because you’re scrolling through a bunch of completely independent content - maybe you get politics, then a cute cat, then a thirst trap, then smtg funny, etc. Whereas something like a book is a continuous story - each page relates to the pages before it.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

In a way, yes.

But part of the problem is the masses' desire for anything shortlived. The world and politics are too complex for 1 minute TikTok clips and an informed decision by voters requires more time and effort than putting stuff into such clips or on bumper stickers. That's also why we shouldn't have celebrety candidates for public office.

I think even people's short attention spans can't be fully blamed on individuals, it's another consequence of our increasingly "complex" world where the internet and technology make everything faster and algorithms intentionally make them addicting.

This is actually not clear, I heard an episode on this just yesterday from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation called Future Tense.
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/futuretense/understanding-attention-and-a-craving-for-certainty/104948544
Understanding attention and a craving for certainty

You probably didn't even realize you did it, but they pointed out an internal contradiction in what you said: how can attention spans be short when people can get addicted to things for hours on end?

Thanks for sharing - I’ll see if I can give it a listen tomorrow!

My initial rebuttal would be that scrolling social media for hours isn’t really long term focus because you’re scrolling through a bunch of completely independent content - maybe you get politics, then a cute cat, then a thirst trap, then smtg funny, etc. Whereas something like a book is a continuous story - each page relates to the pages before it.

I don't use it, but they commented on Tik Tok, and apparently that's not how Tik Tok works: all the videos are interconnected.

But, they also mentioned video games that people can play for hours on end, the length of the average movie has apparently increased over the last whatever period of time, as has streaming television shows, and many people binge an entire season of a television show for up to 8 hours over one day.

I certainly agree that something has changed, as do the people being interviewed on that program, but I don't think 'attention' or 'attention span' is the correct term or accurately describes what has changed.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Something kinda sad about
The way that things have come to be
Desensitized to everything
What became of subtlety?

[DaleCooper]

In a way, yes.

But part of the problem is the masses' desire for anything shortlived. The world and politics are too complex for 1 minute TikTok clips and an informed decision by voters requires more time and effort than putting stuff into such clips or on bumper stickers. That's also why we shouldn't have celebrety candidates for public office.

I think even people's short attention spans can't be fully blamed on individuals, it's another consequence of our increasingly "complex" world where the internet and technology make everything faster and algorithms intentionally make them addicting.

This is actually not clear, I heard an episode on this just yesterday from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation called Future Tense.
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/futuretense/understanding-attention-and-a-craving-for-certainty/104948544
Understanding attention and a craving for certainty

You probably didn't even realize you did it, but they pointed out an internal contradiction in what you said: how can attention spans be short when people can get addicted to things for hours on end?

Thanks for sharing - I’ll see if I can give it a listen tomorrow!

My initial rebuttal would be that scrolling social media for hours isn’t really long term focus because you’re scrolling through a bunch of completely independent content - maybe you get politics, then a cute cat, then a thirst trap, then smtg funny, etc. Whereas something like a book is a continuous story - each page relates to the pages before it.

I don't use it, but they commented on Tik Tok, and apparently that's not how Tik Tok works: all the videos are interconnected.

But, they also mentioned video games that people can play for hours on end, the length of the average movie has apparently increased over the last whatever period of time, as has streaming television shows, and many people binge an entire season of a television show for up to 8 hours over one day.

I certainly agree that something has changed, as do the people being interviewed on that program, but I don't think 'attention' or 'attention span' is the correct term or accurately describes what has changed.

I don't know about TikTok, but a lot of films, TV, and video games are used as background entertainment now. People may play a game for four hours, but they are doing that while listening to YouTube or podcast slop in the background. For films, Netflix in particular has admitted that they are now deliberately creating a kind of movie version of elevator music, not meant to be given full attention.