Annexation of the United Kingdom

[afleitch]

Senator Salmond and Senator Alexander. Who would Salmond caucus with? (if no SNP then perhaps Senator Goldie...what fun!)

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Well they would provide a liberal influence to beat dixie if we split the british isles into a bunch of states...

[AkSaber]

I wouldn't mind having the whole damn thing.

[minionofmidas]

I'm for creating the United States of Celtistan.

[Verily]

Northern Ireland and rest of Ireland admitted as the states of Leinster, Munster, Connacht, and Ulster.

And all of a sudden I could find myself represented by Senators Paisley and McGuinness.

Fortunately, annexation would stop of all the silly NI infighting.

Henry VIII may have expressed similar sentiments.

Yes, but the NI conflict is all about being a part of Britain or Ireland. If both Ireland and Britain are annexed, there are no choices to be fighting over.

[Democratic Hawk]

If we annex the U.K, what happens to the royal family?  Perhaps they could be banished to a small sheep farm near Lerwick?

No, Her Maj becomes Queen of the United States of America and the British Isles (yep, the Republic of Ireland, too, is annexed)

Electoral College is maintained to directly elect a President; while the Senate and House remain as they are. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, the English regions, all become states, electing Governors and state legislatures. Thus, maintaining, a federal government

The hereditary Monarch is a figure-head with no political power, other than to co-sign legislation with the President, who retains all existing powers under the Constitution, along with the Senate , the House of Representatives and the Supreme Court

The Constitution is amended to allow the Monarch to retain their status as head of the Church of England, but there is no official state religion. English is the official language

Dave

[Јas]

If we annex the U.K, what happens to the royal family?  Perhaps they could be banished to a small sheep farm near Lerwick?

No, Her Maj becomes Queen of the United States of America and the British Isles (yep, the Republic of Ireland, too, is annexed)

Electoral College is maintained to directly elect a President; while the Senate and House remain as they are. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, the English regions, all become states, electing Governors and state legislatures. Thus, maintaining, a federal government

The hereditary Monarch is a figure-head with no political power, other than to co-sign legislation with the President, who retains all existing powers under the Constitution, along with the Senate , the House of Representatives and the Supreme Court

The Constitution is amended to allow the Monarch to retain their status as head of the Church of England, but there is no official state religion. English is the official language

Dave

This plan would though cause a series of headaches on this island...

• status as republic lost with a monarchy back...and at that the British monarchy;
• you've introduced a new head of state of importance to the British into the governmental model but denied the Irish any such allowance;
• you've decided that despite annexation, partition will stay;
• and you've implicitly forced us to get rid of our first official language

[Democratic Hawk]

If we annex the U.K, what happens to the royal family?  Perhaps they could be banished to a small sheep farm near Lerwick?

No, Her Maj becomes Queen of the United States of America and the British Isles (yep, the Republic of Ireland, too, is annexed)

Electoral College is maintained to directly elect a President; while the Senate and House remain as they are. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, the English regions, all become states, electing Governors and state legislatures. Thus, maintaining, a federal government

The hereditary Monarch is a figure-head with no political power, other than to co-sign legislation with the President, who retains all existing powers under the Constitution, along with the Senate , the House of Representatives and the Supreme Court

The Constitution is amended to allow the Monarch to retain their status as head of the Church of England, but there is no official state religion. English is the official language

Dave

This plan would though cause a series of headaches on this island...

• status as republic lost with a monarchy back...and at that the British monarchy;
• you've introduced a new head of state of importance to the British into the governmental model but denied the Irish any such allowance;
• you've decided that despite annexation, partition will stay;
• and you've implicitly forced us to get rid of our first official language

The English Monarch was granted the title of Lord of Ireland by Papal Bull ... [blah, blah, blah]

No, seriously, you raise entirely legitimate concerns

So on second thoughts, the Republic of Ireland can join a United States of Europe under which each 'state' retains it's own Head of State (whether elected President or hereditary Monarch), official language and religion (where appropriate). There is a European wide-elected President, a legislature, etc. The nominal Heads of States, on a pro rata basis, co-sign all European legislation, as co-Presidents

It's for the USE to determine whether it has a presidential or cabinet system of government headed by a Prime Minister

Of course, all 'states' would have state governments

Dave

[Јas]

If we annex the U.K, what happens to the royal family?  Perhaps they could be banished to a small sheep farm near Lerwick?

No, Her Maj becomes Queen of the United States of America and the British Isles (yep, the Republic of Ireland, too, is annexed)

Electoral College is maintained to directly elect a President; while the Senate and House remain as they are. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, the English regions, all become states, electing Governors and state legislatures. Thus, maintaining, a federal government

The hereditary Monarch is a figure-head with no political power, other than to co-sign legislation with the President, who retains all existing powers under the Constitution, along with the Senate , the House of Representatives and the Supreme Court

The Constitution is amended to allow the Monarch to retain their status as head of the Church of England, but there is no official state religion. English is the official language

Dave

This plan would though cause a series of headaches on this island...

• status as republic lost with a monarchy back...and at that the British monarchy;
• you've introduced a new head of state of importance to the British into the governmental model but denied the Irish any such allowance;
• you've decided that despite annexation, partition will stay;
• and you've implicitly forced us to get rid of our first official language

The English Monarch was granted the title of Lord of Ireland by Papal Bull ... [blah, blah, blah]

Well, if one accepts that the Bull Laudabiliter of the only ever English Pope, Adrian IV, that purportedly granted the Lordship is genuine and so that the Pope has such authority, one must also recognise that in 1555, the Pope on the excommunication of Henry VII, granted the Kingship of Ireland to Phillip II of Spain.

No, seriously, you raise entirely legitimate concerns

So on second thoughts, the Republic of Ireland can join a United States of Europe under which each 'state' retains it's own Head of State (whether elected President or hereditary Monarch), official language and religion (where appropriate). There is a European wide-elected President, a legislature, etc. The nominal Heads of States, on a pro rata basis, co-sign all European legislation, as co-Presidents

It's for the USE to determine whether it has a presidential or cabinet system of government headed by a Prime Minister

Of course, all 'states' would have state governments

Dave

Better

[minionofmidas]

If we annex the U.K, what happens to the royal family?  Perhaps they could be banished to a small sheep farm near Lerwick?

No, Her Maj becomes Queen of the United States of America and the British Isles (yep, the Republic of Ireland, too, is annexed)

Electoral College is maintained to directly elect a President; while the Senate and House remain as they are. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, the English regions, all become states, electing Governors and state legislatures. Thus, maintaining, a federal government

The hereditary Monarch is a figure-head with no political power, other than to co-sign legislation with the President, who retains all existing powers under the Constitution, along with the Senate , the House of Representatives and the Supreme Court

The Constitution is amended to allow the Monarch to retain their status as head of the Church of England, but there is no official state religion. English is the official language

Dave

This plan would though cause a series of headaches on this island...

• status as republic lost with a monarchy back...and at that the British monarchy;
• you've introduced a new head of state of importance to the British into the governmental model but denied the Irish any such allowance;
• you've decided that despite annexation, partition will stay;
• and you've implicitly forced us to get rid of our first official language

The English Monarch was granted the title of Lord of Ireland by Papal Bull ... [blah, blah, blah]

Well, if one accepts that the Bull Laudabiliter of the only ever English Pope, Adrian IV, that purportedly granted the Lordship is genuine and so that the Pope has such authority, one must also recognise that in 1555, the Pope on the excommunication of Henry VII, granted the Kingship of Ireland to Phillip II of Spain.

Prepare to worship your lawful sovereign, King John II Charles, then.

[Јas]

If we annex the U.K, what happens to the royal family?  Perhaps they could be banished to a small sheep farm near Lerwick?

No, Her Maj becomes Queen of the United States of America and the British Isles (yep, the Republic of Ireland, too, is annexed)

Electoral College is maintained to directly elect a President; while the Senate and House remain as they are. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, the English regions, all become states, electing Governors and state legislatures. Thus, maintaining, a federal government

The hereditary Monarch is a figure-head with no political power, other than to co-sign legislation with the President, who retains all existing powers under the Constitution, along with the Senate , the House of Representatives and the Supreme Court

The Constitution is amended to allow the Monarch to retain their status as head of the Church of England, but there is no official state religion. English is the official language

Dave

This plan would though cause a series of headaches on this island...

• status as republic lost with a monarchy back...and at that the British monarchy;
• you've introduced a new head of state of importance to the British into the governmental model but denied the Irish any such allowance;
• you've decided that despite annexation, partition will stay;
• and you've implicitly forced us to get rid of our first official language

The English Monarch was granted the title of Lord of Ireland by Papal Bull ... [blah, blah, blah]

Well, if one accepts that the Bull Laudabiliter of the only ever English Pope, Adrian IV, that purportedly granted the Lordship is genuine and so that the Pope has such authority, one must also recognise that in 1555, the Pope on the excommunication of Henry VII, granted the Kingship of Ireland to Phillip II of Spain.

Prepare to worship your lawful sovereign, King John II Charles, then.

Now, now...
I obviously don't accept that the Pope has authority to grant such things. But if one does put forward a Papal Bull as a justication for one's authority, then I think it's reasonable to point to another Bull as a refutation for said authority.

FTR, I'm reasonably content with the current constitutional set-up here.

Actually, now that I think about it, the current Constitution was actually tacitly approved by the Pope in 1937. So I suppose, there's an argument that even the 1555 grant to Philip was superceded.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Northern Ireland and rest of Ireland admitted as the states of Leinster, Munster, Connacht, and Ulster.

And all of a sudden I could find myself represented by Senators Paisley and McGuinness.

Nah. More likely Governor Paisley and Senator Dodds or Donaldson. How does that sound?

[Јas]

Northern Ireland and rest of Ireland admitted as the states of Leinster, Munster, Connacht, and Ulster.

And all of a sudden I could find myself represented by Senators Paisley and McGuinness.

Nah. More likely Governor Paisley and Senator Dodds or Donaldson. How does that sound?

*shudder*

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Recent poll on devolution in Wales asking people how much of it they'd like:

Parliament: 43%
Assembly: 28%
No Devolution: 17%
Independence: 12%

Since the same question was asked around the time of the 1997 referendum, support for no devolution has collapsed, support for a Welsh Parliament has surged, support for Independence has fallen a little and support for just having an Assembly is pretty stable.

[minionofmidas]

Northern Ireland and rest of Ireland admitted as the states of Leinster, Munster, Connacht, and Ulster.

And all of a sudden I could find myself represented by Senators Paisley and McGuinness.

Nah. More likely Governor Paisley and Senator Dodds or Donaldson. How does that sound?

Are you guys sure that adding Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan might not tip the political scales in Ulster?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Northern Ireland and rest of Ireland admitted as the states of Leinster, Munster, Connacht, and Ulster.

And all of a sudden I could find myself represented by Senators Paisley and McGuinness.

Nah. More likely Governor Paisley and Senator Dodds or Donaldson. How does that sound?

Are you guys sure that adding Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan might not tip the political scales in Ulster?

No; those places don't have the population. To use wiki stats, Ulster's Population is 1,993,918 and NIs Population is 1,710,300. While including Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan (and these areas are far from Uniform; in an easily believable alternative history those counties could well have been still in the Union - albeit Nationalist strongholds politically - but there would be significant unionist vote) would strengthen the nationalism it would still be outnumbered quite significantly by Antrim and Down (Individually these counties have more people than the "Republican Ulster Three" - actually Antrim and Down are individually the second and third (or fourth; depending on which source you use.) biggest counties by population on the entire island, but that's beside the point (and yes I'm very aware that these places are far from uniform poltically.

Anyway in this bizarre unlikely scenario no doubt Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan would be included in Connacht anyway (for adminstrative reasons). This would give Connacht a population of about 800,000 - about the size of Delaware or South Dakota.

Btw how are seats in the House of representatives divided (no doubt I feel as I post on this forum I should know this) i.e: How much people\registered voters are required on average for a congressional district? Why you ask, because I'm thinking of taking Jas' humorous advise (plus I'm not bothered to finish my older redistricting project plus no-one is replying to it anyway. )

[minionofmidas]

In my United States of Celtistan, Northern Ireland and (Republican) Ulster will be separate states.

[Јas]

Northern Ireland and rest of Ireland admitted as the states of Leinster, Munster, Connacht, and Ulster.

And all of a sudden I could find myself represented by Senators Paisley and McGuinness.

Nah. More likely Governor Paisley and Senator Dodds or Donaldson. How does that sound?

Are you guys sure that adding Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan might not tip the political scales in Ulster?

Well, of course, I can't be sure, but I'd tend to agree with Gully, the numbers just aren't there to tip the balance - and also, not all of the populations of the 3 counties would be nationalist anyway. (Unsurprisingly, we three have some of the highest proportions of Protestants in the Republic.)

Hard to say what historical consequences the inclusion would have made. But a few political; historical; and cultural points I'd note include that:

• There's really no way (at least I greatly doubt there is) one could gerrymander the 3 counties in themselves to prevent much more significant nationalist representation at every level - so the voice of nationalism would be that bit stronger.
• Presumably, with a greater nationalist/republican population North of the border, the IRA would have been a stronger force. The implications for the history of that organisation also very difficult to guess at.
• You'd be including one of the biggest Gaeltachts (i.e. exclusively Irish speaking areas) into NI, the consequences for the Gaeltacht itself and the Irish language (both North and South) would be very difficult to guess at.

[Јas]

Northern Ireland and rest of Ireland admitted as the states of Leinster, Munster, Connacht, and Ulster.

And all of a sudden I could find myself represented by Senators Paisley and McGuinness.

Nah. More likely Governor Paisley and Senator Dodds or Donaldson. How does that sound?

Are you guys sure that adding Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan might not tip the political scales in Ulster?

No; those places don't have the population. To use wiki stats, Ulster's Population is 1,993,918 and NIs Population is 1,710,300. While including Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan (and these areas are far from Uniform; in an easily believable alternative history those counties could well have been still in the Union - albeit Nationalist strongholds politically - but there would be significant unionist vote) would strengthen the nationalism it would still be outnumbered quite significantly by Antrim and Down (Individually these counties have more people than the "Republican Ulster Three" - actually Antrim and Down are individually the second and third (or fourth; depending on which source you use.) biggest counties by population on the entire island, but that's beside the point (and yes I'm very aware that these places are far from uniform poltically.

Anyway in this bizarre unlikely scenario no doubt Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan would be included in Connacht anyway (for adminstrative reasons). This would give Connacht a population of about 800,000 - about the size of Delaware or South Dakota.

I've never been delighted that Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan get tacked onto Connacht so often. Always thought Cavan and Monaghan would fit better using some other construct - such as some form of reconstituted Meath/Tara province comprising Cavan, Monaghan and North Leinster.

Btw how are seats in the House of representatives divided (no doubt I feel as I post on this forum I should know this) i.e: How much people\registered voters are required on average for a congressional district? Why you ask, because I'm thinking of taking Jas' humorous advise (plus I'm not bothered to finish my older redistricting project plus no-one is replying to it anyway. )

Looking forward to it