The Only Real Issue That Hurts Republicans in 2004

[NHPolitico]

The GOP used to be for fair trade...

Republican platform 1972: "We deplore the practice of locating plants in foreign countries solely to take advantage of low wage rates in order to produce goods primarily for sale in the United States. We will take action to discourage such unfair and disruptive practices that result in the loss of American jobs."



Grandpa Prescott Bush, Barry Goldwater, and Strom Thurmond fought JFK's free trade policies that marked the beginning of the end of American industrialization.

Well, I'm glad you've seen the light...

I don't follow. I've never not "seen the light" on this subject.

[NHPolitico]

The GOP used to be for fair trade...

Republican platform 1972: "We deplore the practice of locating plants in foreign countries solely to take advantage of low wage rates in order to produce goods primarily for sale in the United States. We will take action to discourage such unfair and disruptive practices that result in the loss of American jobs."



Grandpa Prescott Bush, Barry Goldwater, and Strom Thurmond fought JFK's free trade policies that marked the beginning of the end of American industrialization.

NHPolitico - you're  protectionist?!  I always find that bizarre in a Republican.   Even a little willfully irrational in a Democrat, but at least understandable there.

I like the company I keep. Free traders like Cordell Hull, who drafted the first income tax and Karl Marx who said, in 1848, "The Protective system...is conservative, while the Free Trade system works destructively. It breaks up old nationalities and carries antagonism of proletariat and bourgeoisie to the uttermost point. In a word, the Free Trade system hastens the Social Revolution. In this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, I am in favor of Free Trade," can hang out in one corner of the room. I'll be in the other, with the Founders.

[MarkDel]

NHPolitico,

I would have disagreed with you until recently, but now I think I was wrong about free trade and guys like you were right all along.

[Beet]

We should bring back the Hawley-Smoot tariffs.

[opebo]

You Republican protectionists should go dig up Perot and vote for him again, shooting down another decent Bush.

Protectionism is hands down the most foolish economic policy available.  A gauranteed way to lower the standard of living.

[MarkDel]

Opebo,

Until very recently, I agreed with you. However, the results of Nafta and other 1990's trade policies have been a real eye opener for me. The Democrats are wrong about virtually everything, but they have a point when it comes to the loss of good paying manufacturing and service jobs. A business is always going to act in its rational best interest...and if they can save millions of dollars by paying a foreign worker a fraction of the money, why would they ever hire any US workers? Now in theory, the increased profitability should lead to the creation of more US based jobs, but it simply hasn't happened. Our economy is too hampered by over-regulation and ridiculous environmental regulations to be anything but a tourism based, service economy in a global marketplace. We simply cannot produce anything domestically that is cheap enough (due to labor costs and regulatory costs) to flow into the overall marketplace. Now over the long haul, this may change as the world becomes "smaller" and other nations raise their standards of living, but in the short term, the US economy has suffered and will continue to suffer. The stock market is a nice measurement of wealth accumulated, but if a large chunk of that wealth is spent on foreign workers and paid towards foreign taxes, it does little or nothing to create good paying jobs in the US.

I'm not a protectionist...far from it..but what I think we need to do is bring back some old US economic policies relating to tariffs, that we even the playing field and create Fair Trade instead of Free Trade. That's all I ask.

[opebo]

Opebo,

Until very recently, I agreed with you. However, the results of Nafta and other 1990's trade policies have been a real eye opener for me. The Democrats are wrong about virtually everything, but they have a point when it comes to the loss of good paying manufacturing and service jobs. A business is always going to act in its rational best interest...and if they can save millions of dollars by paying a foreign worker a fraction of the money, why would they ever hire any US workers? Now in theory, the increased profitability should lead to the creation of more US based jobs, but it simply hasn't happened. Our economy is too hampered by over-regulation and ridiculous environmental regulations to be anything but a tourism based, service economy in a global marketplace. We simply cannot produce anything domestically that is cheap enough (due to labor costs and regulatory costs) to flow into the overall marketplace. Now over the long haul, this may change as the world becomes "smaller" and other nations raise their standards of living, but in the short term, the US economy has suffered and will continue to suffer. The stock market is a nice measurement of wealth accumulated, but if a large chunk of that wealth is spent on foreign workers and paid towards foreign taxes, it does little or nothing to create good paying jobs in the US.

I'm not a protectionist...far from it..but what I think we need to do is bring back some old US economic policies relating to tariffs, that we even the playing field and create Fair Trade instead of Free Trade. That's all I ask.

A better solution would be to reduce regulations, taxes, and other costs here at home.  Anytime people start appealing to 'Fairness' in economic issues I grab my wallet.  Fairness arguments always precede political theft, and that's exactly what 'fair trade' is - making me pay twice as much for some product just because I have to buy it from an American instead of another source.  I view trade is not so much about national policy as about individual freedom - I think I have a right to buy from whoever I wish.  More economic freedoms should be in the Bill of Rights.

[MarkDel]

Opebo,

On a theoretical level I agree with you. But I've just seen too many well educated, capable people making $10 an hour in the current economy. I have a friend with an Ivy League education who after he was "downsized" went so long without a job that he now works as a freaking telemarketer! There is a FUNDAMENTAL problem with our economy right now.

[NHPolitico]

NHPolitico,

I would have disagreed with you until recently, but now I think I was wrong about free trade and guys like you were right all along.

Welcome to the club. As I said, free trade was boosted by liberals, not conservatives.  We've been hijacked!

[NHPolitico]

We should bring back the Hawley-Smoot tariffs.

Milton Friedman said, on Smoot-Hawley, "It played no significant role in either causing the depression or prolonging it."

[NHPolitico]

You Republican protectionists should go dig up Perot and vote for him again, shooting down another decent Bush.

Protectionism is hands down the most foolish economic policy available.  A gauranteed way to lower the standard of living.

I'll vote for Bush. I don't agree with him on everything, though. I'd write in George Washington's name every election if I wanted to throw my vote away on someone like Perot.

It's economic nationalism that I support. With free trade as it stands now, you surrender your nation's existence all for cheap merchandise.  I like Friedrich List's statement:  "Who would be consoled for the loss of an arm by the knowing that he had nevertheless bought his shirts forty percent cheaper?"

What nation has consumed, alone, its way to greatness?

[NHPolitico]

Opebo,

Until very recently, I agreed with you. However, the results of Nafta and other 1990's trade policies have been a real eye opener for me. The Democrats are wrong about virtually everything, but they have a point when it comes to the loss of good paying manufacturing and service jobs. A business is always going to act in its rational best interest...and if they can save millions of dollars by paying a foreign worker a fraction of the money, why would they ever hire any US workers? Now in theory, the increased profitability should lead to the creation of more US based jobs, but it simply hasn't happened. Our economy is too hampered by over-regulation and ridiculous environmental regulations to be anything but a tourism based, service economy in a global marketplace. We simply cannot produce anything domestically that is cheap enough (due to labor costs and regulatory costs) to flow into the overall marketplace. Now over the long haul, this may change as the world becomes "smaller" and other nations raise their standards of living, but in the short term, the US economy has suffered and will continue to suffer. The stock market is a nice measurement of wealth accumulated, but if a large chunk of that wealth is spent on foreign workers and paid towards foreign taxes, it does little or nothing to create good paying jobs in the US.

I'm not a protectionist...far from it..but what I think we need to do is bring back some old US economic policies relating to tariffs, that we even the playing field and create Fair Trade instead of Free Trade. That's all I ask.

A better solution would be to reduce regulations, taxes, and other costs here at home.  Anytime people start appealing to 'Fairness' in economic issues I grab my wallet.  Fairness arguments always precede political theft, and that's exactly what 'fair trade' is - making me pay twice as much for some product just because I have to buy it from an American instead of another source.  I view trade is not so much about national policy as about individual freedom - I think I have a right to buy from whoever I wish.  More economic freedoms should be in the Bill of Rights.

You don't have a right to do lots of things that aren't in the best interest of the nation. The Founders wanted the government to be funded by foreign countries, not by the incomes of Americans. They wanted tariffs to make us strong and it was our policy. We grew from a nothing country to a superpower because of our industrial might.  I favor taxes on foreign goods, and you prefer taxes on incomes.

[Gustaf]

Protectionism is hands down the most foolish economic policy available.  A gauranteed way to lower the standard of living.

Hmmm, it feels scary agreeing with Opebo, and I don't think it will happen again, but, yes, EXACTLY my opinion.

[Gustaf]

You Republican protectionists should go dig up Perot and vote for him again, shooting down another decent Bush.

Protectionism is hands down the most foolish economic policy available.  A gauranteed way to lower the standard of living.

I'll vote for Bush. I don't agree with him on everything, though. I'd write in George Washington's name every election if I wanted to throw my vote away on someone like Perot.

It's economic nationalism that I support. With free trade as it stands now, you surrender your nation's existence all for cheap merchandise.  I like Friedrich List's statement:  "Who would be consoled for the loss of an arm by the knowing that he had nevertheless bought his shirts forty percent cheaper?"

What nation has consumed, alone, its way to greatness?

You don't surrender you nation's greatness, you create geographical specialization, i.e. every country does what they do best, thus raising the global GDP.