Nominating the VP was a key strategic error from Dems

[Randy Marsh]

The current administration has 36% approval. People wanted it fired. Why did Dems choose a top figure from this massively unpopular admin to be their nominee? Anyone with a prayer of winning would have had to distance themselves from the President massively.

As VP, I don't think Kamala could have distanced herself enough to win, yet she didn't even try...

[Comrade Funk]

Because Democrats are too cowardly to go against their establishment. Look how many Democrats still kiss Biden's ass on this forum

[Pericles]

This strategic error was caused by the other massive error of Joe Biden remaining a candidate until after the RNC. We'll never know if Democrats would have found a better nominee if Biden never ran, but he dropped out so late that it was not realistically possible to pick an outsider.

[Burke Bro]

This strategic error was caused by the other massive error of Joe Biden remaining a candidate until after the RNC. We'll never know if Democrats would have found a better nominee if Biden never ran, but he dropped out so late that it was not realistically possible to pick an outsider.

I think Biden dropped out of the race at the best possible time, and a primary race would have reopened a lot of divisions within the Democratic Party. Maybe there was a small window of opportunity where the DGA could've convened and proposed a Whitmer/Shapiro ticket, and convinced Biden and Harris to endorse said ticket, but there were too many concerns at the time around the optics of the Democratic Party snubbing a black woman for the nomination.

[Mr. Smith]

The alternative was to keep Biden at the point, and he'd definitely lose The Sun Belt, and The Rust Belt would be 50/50 at best (thanks to "Scranton Joe").

The DNC in Chicago was a much more ominous sign.

[dw93]

It was the best option of a bunch of bad options that were on the table this summer. If Biden announced in late 2022 or 2023 that he wasn't running again and the Democrats proceeded to nominate her, than I agree it would've been a strategic error given that we have stronger alternatives on the bench, but because Biden got out just a hair over three months before the general election, for logistical reasons she was the best choice.

[Bush did 311]

From the point in time that Biden dropped out, I think nominating Harris may have been the best play available.

A governor no one's heard of might win their home state but would do even worse in the others. It's dumb but broad name recognition is critical for winning. A percentage of Americans vote for the name they recognize. That is incumbency advantage. Running a literal nobody against Trump, a man who's been on TV for decades, is a shot you only take if you're totally cooked. As VP Harris has more name recognition. Everyone that voted for Biden before saw her on their ticket at least once. And it could be that she had no chance because she only had 4 months to build a rapport with voters. If she'd been a more visible VP then it might've played out differently.

The optics were also bad if they went with someone else. People that voted for Biden in the primary at least implicitly have some support for Harris, but if they just went and picked someone new then it really would look like the "will of the voters" was being ignored by the party. Harris brought the minority women back and they might've been as bad as the men if another nominee had been picked.

The dems were in a bad position and never should've let Biden run to begin with. It's unclear if there was anything Harris could do to win and it's unclear if another candidate could've done any better from the same starting point.

[ultraviolet]

I agree, but there weren’t really any great options. At the same time, I really don’t think the time that Biden dropped out really mattered, it was the fact that he was unpopular and she didn’t do anything to distance herself as you said.

She could’ve been running her same campaign since 2021 (in the event Biden immediately announced he wouldn’t run again) and lost in the same way. Because let’s be honest, if there was a primary at any point she would’ve won it.

[Pericles]

This strategic error was caused by the other massive error of Joe Biden remaining a candidate until after the RNC. We'll never know if Democrats would have found a better nominee if Biden never ran, but he dropped out so late that it was not realistically possible to pick an outsider.

I think Biden dropped out of the race at the best possible time, and a primary race would have reopened a lot of divisions within the Democratic Party. Maybe there was a small window of opportunity where the DGA could've convened and proposed a Whitmer/Shapiro ticket, and convinced Biden and Harris to endorse said ticket, but there were too many concerns at the time around the optics of the Democratic Party snubbing a black woman for the nomination.

I think it's most likely that if Biden never ran, Harris would have won the primary and then lost by the same or more. However, it would have made it easier for Harris or another nominee to win, if they played it right.

[Roll Roons]

If Biden announced that he wasn't running in Spring 2023, I'm not sure things would have turned out better for Dems.

Harris would the obvious frontrunner, but she may not have gone unopposed and all those activists might have forced her to take far-left positions on niche issues, just like what we saw in 2020 that came back to bite her big time ("Kamala is for they/them.") And assuming she gets the nomination, she would still be carrying the weight of both the administration's unpopularity and her statements from 2019.

[Iowa+3]

Biden should never have ran in 2023. If the Ds have an open primary, it becomes a much more interesting race on both sides.

Once Biden was running, the Democrats were cooked. Biden never lead, and apparently Kamala never lead either.

[Redban]

By the time Biden dropped out, they didn't have a choice. Only Harris could have inherited his campaign funds

[Blazers93]

Biden and Harris were the only real options because they won the primaries. Tough to run on the other guy being a threat to democracy when they invalidate the primary votes.

Allowing Biden to run for reelection is why the Democrats lost. Despite the political climate and Trump's popularity, I believe the winner of an open D primary would have won. Even Harris

[Schumer can go f*** himself!]

The current administration has 36% approval. People wanted it fired. Why did Dems choose a top figure from this massively unpopular admin to be their nominee? Anyone with a prayer of winning would have had to distance themselves from the President massively.

As VP, I don't think Kamala could have distanced herself enough to win, yet she didn't even try...

Silence, Republican (and possible sock)

[Roll Roons]

The current administration has 36% approval. People wanted it fired. Why did Dems choose a top figure from this massively unpopular admin to be their nominee? Anyone with a prayer of winning would have had to distance themselves from the President massively.

As VP, I don't think Kamala could have distanced herself enough to win, yet she didn't even try...

Silence, Republican (and possible sock)

Let's be honest, is he wrong?

[Crane]

Biden should never have ran in 2023. If the Ds have an open primary, it becomes a much more interesting race on both sides.

Once Biden was running, the Democrats were cooked. Biden never lead, and apparently Kamala never lead either.

It's led.

[Crane]

The current administration has 36% approval. People wanted it fired. Why did Dems choose a top figure from this massively unpopular admin to be their nominee? Anyone with a prayer of winning would have had to distance themselves from the President massively.

As VP, I don't think Kamala could have distanced herself enough to win, yet she didn't even try...

Silence, Republican (and possible sock)

Let's be honest, is he wrong?

For the next four years, any bad faith troll who voted to re-elect the worst president of all time doesn't get to whine or lecture anybody about the previous administration.

This was his error and will be his reckoning.

[インターネット掲示板ユーザー Punxsutawney Phil]

The current administration has 36% approval. People wanted it fired. Why did Dems choose a top figure from this massively unpopular admin to be their nominee? Anyone with a prayer of winning would have had to distance themselves from the President massively.

As VP, I don't think Kamala could have distanced herself enough to win, yet she didn't even try...

Silence, Republican (and possible sock)

Let's be honest, is he wrong?

For the next four years, any bad faith troll who voted to re-elect the worst president of all time doesn't get to whine or lecture anybody about the previous administration.

This was his error and will be his reckoning.

You and anyone of that mould are starting to sound like the Japanese holdouts still thinking they were fighting WWII.
Trump won. Fighting as if the last war never ended sounds like a great way to lose the next one.

[Crane]

The current administration has 36% approval. People wanted it fired. Why did Dems choose a top figure from this massively unpopular admin to be their nominee? Anyone with a prayer of winning would have had to distance themselves from the President massively.

As VP, I don't think Kamala could have distanced herself enough to win, yet she didn't even try...

Silence, Republican (and possible sock)

Let's be honest, is he wrong?

For the next four years, any bad faith troll who voted to re-elect the worst president of all time doesn't get to whine or lecture anybody about the previous administration.

This was his error and will be his reckoning.

You and anyone of that mould are starting to sound like the Japanese holdouts still thinking they were fighting WWII.
Trump won. Fighting the last war sounds like a great way to lose the next one.

Advice: next time you think you have an insightful "muh both sides" comment to make, you didn't.

I'll be calling this brain dead piece of crap the worst president of all time, which is the truth, for the next 1,000 days, and reminding his voters that this is what they voted for every time he adds another failure to the list. They don't get to say "FJB", because a Joe Rogan guest told them fluoride is turning kids trans and that's Biden's fault, for four years and then expect decorum.

If you don't enjoy that, put me on ignore.

If this was another Republican with a modicum of talent, respectability and genuine concern for the US and its allies, like Romney or even Haley, I would most likely have stopped caring and logged off for a while. But I'm going to document this idiot and all of the ways he harms American society with his lunatic friends and cabinet picks.

[インターネット掲示板ユーザー Punxsutawney Phil]

The current administration has 36% approval. People wanted it fired. Why did Dems choose a top figure from this massively unpopular admin to be their nominee? Anyone with a prayer of winning would have had to distance themselves from the President massively.

As VP, I don't think Kamala could have distanced herself enough to win, yet she didn't even try...

Silence, Republican (and possible sock)

Let's be honest, is he wrong?

For the next four years, any bad faith troll who voted to re-elect the worst president of all time doesn't get to whine or lecture anybody about the previous administration.

This was his error and will be his reckoning.

You and anyone of that mould are starting to sound like the Japanese holdouts still thinking they were fighting WWII.
Trump won. Fighting the last war sounds like a great way to lose the next one.

Advice: next time you think you have an insightful "muh both sides" comment to make, you didn't.

I'll be calling this brain dead piece of crap the worst president of all time, which is the truth, for the next 1,000 days, and reminding his voters that this is what they voted for every time he adds another failure to the list. They don't get to say "FJB", because a Joe Rogan guest told them fluoride is turning kids trans and that's Biden's fault, for four years and then expect decorum.

If you don't enjoy that, put me on ignore.

Here's my opinion/views/whatever. You have yours as well. To your credit, you have a strong pragmatism streak too, though it doesn't manifest in the same way as mine.
Firstly, the timing and the circumstances matter. Trump winning closed the book on 2024 itself and there's a change of the guard. Ds will need to win Trump voters to win in 2028.
Secondly, it's fine to tell people that voting for Trump was an awful decision, and I in fact agree completely on assigning some responsibility to the average voter who went with him. But making that too central is not wise. Focus on common ground, not differences. That's how you build a coalition.
Thirdly, and lastly, I do not maintain any ignore list and/or make use of the ignore button. All occasions I have used it have been for testing, which has happened on rare occasions, or have otherwise been entirely accidental.

[Crane]

The current administration has 36% approval. People wanted it fired. Why did Dems choose a top figure from this massively unpopular admin to be their nominee? Anyone with a prayer of winning would have had to distance themselves from the President massively.

As VP, I don't think Kamala could have distanced herself enough to win, yet she didn't even try...

Silence, Republican (and possible sock)

Let's be honest, is he wrong?

For the next four years, any bad faith troll who voted to re-elect the worst president of all time doesn't get to whine or lecture anybody about the previous administration.

This was his error and will be his reckoning.

You and anyone of that mould are starting to sound like the Japanese holdouts still thinking they were fighting WWII.
Trump won. Fighting the last war sounds like a great way to lose the next one.

Advice: next time you think you have an insightful "muh both sides" comment to make, you didn't.

I'll be calling this brain dead piece of crap the worst president of all time, which is the truth, for the next 1,000 days, and reminding his voters that this is what they voted for every time he adds another failure to the list. They don't get to say "FJB", because a Joe Rogan guest told them fluoride is turning kids trans and that's Biden's fault, for four years and then expect decorum.

If you don't enjoy that, put me on ignore.

Here's my opinion/views/whatever. You have yours as well. To your credit, you have a strong pragmatism streak too, though it doesn't manifest in the same way as mine.
Firstly, the timing and the circumstances matter. Trump winning closed the book on 2024 itself and there's a change of the guard. Ds will need to win Trump voters to win in 2028.
Secondly, it's fine to tell people that voting for Trump was an awful decision, and I in fact agree completely on assigning some responsibility to the average voter who went with him. But making that too central is not wise. Focus on common ground, not differences. That's how you build a coalition.
Thirdly, and lastly, I do not maintain any ignore list and make use of the ignore button. All occasions I have used it have been for testing, which has happened on rare occasions, or have otherwise been entirely accidental.

I appreciate that's your approach, but I know enough Trump supporters and interact with enough here to know it's a futile effort. Refer to Badger's signature - "“Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.” — Thomas Jefferson"

Most of their views are based on deranged conspiracy theories found online and complete misrepresentations of the state of society.
Because of this, they've been whipped into a constant state of fear that makes them truly hate the subjects of those conspiracy theories. Fear breeds hate and as a result the average Trump voter is completely non-amenable to the very idea of supporting a Democrat. So many can't be reasoned with.

I don't mock or hate Trump voters, but I'm certainly not going to treat them as if they came to that decision from an honest policy analysis. And as for Trump himself? He's getting the same treatment from me as he treated Biden and commanded his followers to do so. Biden won handily in 2020 too, but that didn't stop him from trying to steal the election and treating him as illegitimate from the very start. I'm going to treat Trump as a deranged lunatic who exploited the fear-peddling online podcast sphere to win 49 1/2 percent of the popular vote.

[Roll Roons]

The current administration has 36% approval. People wanted it fired. Why did Dems choose a top figure from this massively unpopular admin to be their nominee? Anyone with a prayer of winning would have had to distance themselves from the President massively.

As VP, I don't think Kamala could have distanced herself enough to win, yet she didn't even try...

Silence, Republican (and possible sock)

Let's be honest, is he wrong?

For the next four years, any bad faith troll who voted to re-elect the worst president of all time doesn't get to whine or lecture anybody about the previous administration.

This was his error and will be his reckoning.

Ok. That doesn’t change the fact that Biden was very unpopular, even with some traditionally Democratic constituencies (Asians and Hispanics) and that a race that was a referendum on his administration was unlikely to go in Democrats’ favor.

[Mr. Smith]

The current administration has 36% approval. People wanted it fired. Why did Dems choose a top figure from this massively unpopular admin to be their nominee? Anyone with a prayer of winning would have had to distance themselves from the President massively.

As VP, I don't think Kamala could have distanced herself enough to win, yet she didn't even try...

Silence, Republican (and possible sock)

Let's be honest, is he wrong?

For the next four years, any bad faith troll who voted to re-elect the worst president of all time doesn't get to whine or lecture anybody about the previous administration.

This was his error and will be his reckoning.

You and anyone of that mould are starting to sound like the Japanese holdouts still thinking they were fighting WWII.
Trump won. Fighting as if the last war never ended sounds like a great way to lose the next one.

It worked for Trump. It worked for his idol, Jackson. It worked for Cleveland. It worked for Reagan. And on some level it worked for Biden and Nixon and Bush Jr.

[Averroës]

They couldn't say no to him (apparently). By the time they did, they "had no choice" (because nothing is to be feared like the messiness of real democracy in action that would have been on full display at a convention).

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

If you apply ‎Allan Lichtman's keys to 1856, Democrats had only 4 keys. Now, his methodology is bunk, but that suggests that 1856 should have been a hard election for the Democrats to win. It turns out that there can be something to primarying a sitting President to win the general election.