Democrats: did you feel worse after 2016 or 2024?

[Tekken_Guy]

Democrats (or anti-Trumpers in general): did you feel worse after 2016 or 2024?

[Crumpets]

2016 by far and away. I don't know if I have an exact reason why, but my expectations were much different for both. I was fully prepared for a Trump victory this time, and I wasn't at all in 2016.

[Eraserhead]

2024 by far. Everyone knows exactly what Trump is at this point and they still voted for him. He even won the popular vote.

After 2016, I at least had another Sanders candidacy to look forward to. I also disliked Clinton more than Harris.  

[ProgressiveModerate]

2024 but mainly because in 2016 I was like 10 and didn't have as much attachment to politics.

[Badger]

2024 by far. Everyone knows exactly what Trump is at this point and they still voted for him. He even won the popular vote.

After 2016, I at least had another Sanders candidacy to look forward to. I also disliked Clinton more than Harris.  

All of this except I didn't care about another Sanders candidacy. I will add to this point, though, that Trump has clearly made it a priority to use the executive branch to exact mentions on his personal and political enemies much more than so than he did 8 years ago.

[BaldEagle1991]

2024 by far. Everyone knows exactly what Trump is at this point and they still voted for him. He even won the popular vote.  

This.

Also at least in 2016 there were some bright spots like seeing the Democrats holding well among Latinos and gaining among white suburbanites and white college grads.

2024 felt like the Democrats lost every group except black women.

[Frodo]

2024, because Trump won an even larger electoral college victory than he did last time, he won the popular vote by about 2.5 million, and we lost ground among minorities -and this despite everything that has transpired since he came down that Trump Tower escalator in June 2015.  

[Progressive Pessimist]

Worse in 2016: The Democratic Party was in a worse position going forward, Trump won on a technicality, and up until maybe Comeygate it was very difficult to see Trump pulling off a win. And that reflected poorly on my opinion of the American public.

For 2024: I'm on Prozac now for one thing, my opinion of the American public remains low, him winning was more expected, the Democratic Party at least is well-positioned in certain states and with future national candidates. What makes it worse is that Trump has less accountability than ever and is more empowered and retributive.

Both were still similarly devastating though, it's just thst 2016 might have been 5% more of a reaction.

[Reactionary Libertarian]

2024 was objectively a much worse loss. But 2016 is more shocking.

[Rhode Islander First, American Second]

2016 felt like a fluke. 2024 is far more disheartening - realizing that we ARE going back.

[Blazers93]

2016. I was blindsided by that one. This time sucks sure but I expected Trump to win and made peace with it to an extent

[Epaminondas]

2016, because Democratic party actively sabotaged the only candidate who could have channeled widespread discontent, and shot themselves in the foot by crowning a mediocre candidate. I dare anyone to sincerely argue that Hillary was the better choice in 2016 now.

2024 was no real surprise: Dems were saddled by Harris due to Biden's mental frailty in 2020, and what fraction of Americans wants a snobbish Californian lawyer as US president?

We're still in the aftermath of Sanders being robbed in 2016, so no real shock.
The real reward for 2016 is brewing.

[Rhode Islander First, American Second]

2016, because Democratic party actively sabotaged the only candidate who could have channeled widespread discontent, and shot themselves in the foot by crowning a mediocre candidate. I dare anyone to sincerely argue that Hillary was the better choice in 2016 now.

2024 was no real surprise: Dems were saddled by Harris due to Biden's mental frailty in 2020, and what fraction of Americans wants a snobbish Californian lawyer as US president?

We're still in the aftermath of Sanders being robbed in 2016, so no real shock.
The real reward for 2016 is brewing.

The situation we find ourselves in now is a direct consequence of the Bernie movement

[I love MAGA, don’t send me to the camps]

2024.

[bagelman]

2024 by far. The fact I saw it coming just made it much worse, and didn't really make it better after it happened. In 2016 I didn't really care about Hillary losing, to the point I would've considered Trump if I lived in a safe blue state (I would've regretted it). Part of me hoped that Democrats would get over themselves and nominate someone more reasonable in 2020, and by now we'd look back at Trump and laugh. I certainty didn't think Trump would be able to make such a huge number of judicial picks in a single term.

Ever since Biden made the incredibly selfish decision to stay in and prevent a primary, I've been hoping that some Deus ex Machina would happen, and I allowed the Selzer poll to pull the wool over my eyes.

We are going back, and I'm not ready for 4 years of a Trump administration that is looking to be more right wing than previously. His cabinet picks are clearly pointing to worse things in store than his first term.

2016, because Democratic party actively sabotaged the only candidate who could have channeled widespread discontent, and shot themselves in the foot by crowning a mediocre candidate. I dare anyone to sincerely argue that Hillary was the better choice in 2016 now.

2024 was no real surprise: Dems were saddled by Harris due to Biden's mental frailty in 2020, and what fraction of Americans wants a snobbish Californian lawyer as US president?

We're still in the aftermath of Sanders being robbed in 2016, so no real shock.
The real reward for 2016 is brewing.

The situation we find ourselves in now is a direct consequence of the Bernie movement

[Pericles]

I think it's easier to accept that the public had settled on making the wrong decision, rather than it almost being that the terrible outcome happened by accident. 2016 was so close and would have gone the other way if not for Hillary's horrendous luck of Comey's terrible breach of protocol.

It is easier to just move to acceptance when it is harder to think of how it easily could or should have gone differently. Of course Harris could have won, but there is no sense that this was a fluke.

[ottermax]

I initially didn't think I'd care about Trump winning in 2024, but as the results have sunk in it is a very depressing result. The swings towards him in EVERY single state, no clear bright spots for Democrats at all (maybe metro Atlanta?), and especially in the aftermath the media's obsession with trans rights as the explanation for the loss when there is so much more evidence that cost of living and immigration drove the result.

After 2016 there was a concerted effort to try and understand why the working class abandoned the Democratic party and it felt like the party and the media wanted to understand this and not just accept the racism and bigotry. This time around it just feels like the right has won - trans rights feel like we've stepped back an entire decade, the talk on immigration feels stupid (there's clear reforms to be made but instead of talking about any of these issues we are jumping straight to mass deportations without any investment in cleaning up the refugee and asylum system, offering reform, or dealing with DACA), and on the economy the discussion just feels plain stupid and nobody is discussing corporate power or the accumulation of wealth by the ultrarich at all. The right has won by actually shifting the overton window and this disturbs me greatly as Trump only won by a 1.6% margin, and talking about bathrooms or women's sports just is not substantive at all for the vast majority of Americans.

[Epaminondas]

2024 wasn't even surprising: the polls were fairly accurate, the passion for Kamala Harris was nonexistent, and the reputation of the Democratic party was at its lowest point since 2004.

The situation we find ourselves in now is a direct consequence of the Bernie movement

The "Bernie movement" you belittle existed beyond him, it was anger at rampant unbridled neoliberalism and the lack of a positive future vision for the country. Incrementalism never appeals to those who struggle; it needs to be couched in in a larger narrative.

Clinton backers chose to ignore the angry youth interested in major change, lest it might harm their pocketbook. So 8 years later, young voters mostly stopped voting or turned to Trump, who at least promised some sort of shakeup.

The 2016 Dem primaries were not the triumph of reason over naivety, they were the triumph of selfishness over optimism in US politics.

[Bush did 311]

2024 is worse. I could see a silver lining to 2016 potentially shifting the party in a better direction but there's nothing like that this time. Things are just gonna get worse for the foreseeable future and that's the end of it.

[Samof94]

Worse in 2016: The Democratic Party was in a worse position going forward, Trump won on a technicality, and up until maybe Comeygate it was very difficult to see Trump pulling off a win. And that reflected poorly on my opinion of the American public.

For 2024: I'm on Prozac now for one thing, my opinion of the American public remains low, him winning was more expected, the Democratic Party at least is well-positioned in certain states and with future national candidates. What makes it worse is that Trump has less accountability than ever and is more empowered and retributive.

Both were still similarly devastating though, it's just thst 2016 might have been 5% more of a reaction.

One positive of 2024 over 2016, weirdly enough, is that the Senate had a lot of  split ticket voting and several states Trump won had D Senators win.
Likewise, the 2024 Dems have more Dem states this time(at the state level), like Michigan for instance.
This is why I voted 2016.
2024 is basically Trump's 2004.

[Steve from Lambeth]

Kamala Harris, October 2024: "We are not going back!"


bagelman, November 2024:

We are going back

[wbrocks67]

2024 wasn't even surprising: the polls were fairly accurate, the passion for Kamala Harris was nonexistent, and the reputation of the Democratic party was at its lowest point since 2004.

The situation we find ourselves in now is a direct consequence of the Bernie movement

The "Bernie movement" you belittle existed beyond him, it was anger at rampant unbridled neoliberalism and the lack of a positive future vision for the country. Incrementalism never appeals to those who struggle; it needs to be couched in in a larger narrative.

Clinton backers chose to ignore the angry youth interested in major change, lest it might harm their pocketbook. So 8 years later, young voters mostly stopped voting or turned to Trump, who at least promised some sort of shakeup.

The 2016 Dem primaries were not the triumph of reason over naivety, they were the triumph of selfishness over optimism in US politics.

Once again, this is completely and verifiably false. Not sure why some people feel the need to push this narrative.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

2024 is darker but much easier to accept.

[GAinDC]

I felt worse in 2016 because I genuinely was not expecting it. Also, I know it could have been a lot worse this year if Biden had stayed in, so I’m also grateful we avoided a catastrophe.

I’m in no way giving up on America, but I’m a lot more resigned to just letting the next four years play out. I believe in democracy, and Trump is what most Americans voted for, so it’s not my place to be some sort of disrupter.

Defeat also leads to growth, so I’m excited to see new leaders in the Democratic Party step up. We’ve been running on Obama fumes for years, so we probably needed this loss to force us to change.

[dw93]

I was angry in the immediate aftermath of 2016 while I was disappointed and scared in the immediate aftermath of 2024. I don't know which was worse.