Why was Chase Oliver's result so lackluster?

[Crumpets]

0.47% as of the latest returns - worst result for them since 2008, if I remember correctly. Where did the Libertarian voters go, and why did Oliver lose so many?

[RI]

A fair number probably went to RFK instead.

[riverwalk7]

Voted Jorgenson 2020 - Trump 2024 myself.

[CheapDollarEra?]

Oliver is too much of a bleeding heart libertarian for the party and the dems talking about price control was toxic for them so they voted TRUMP.
Also, Trump's years are seen as a dovish (even if that's just luck).

[TWTown]

Open Source Intelligence was talking about it in the third party thread but most of the National Committee were actively rooting for Trump and cut support to Oliver. Unfortunately the Mises Group wanted Trump to win and had no interest in what state the party would be in after the election

[Voice of low info America]

Mostly back home to the Republican Party. The racist ones went to the Democratic Party.

[BaldEagle1991]

There’s a faction conflict within the Libertarian Party. The more moderate wing and the Maises Caucus (far right faction).

Chase Oliver is part of the former and Trump speaking to the latter at their convention,  a lot of them went to Trump.

[Aurelius2]

- internal conflict in the LP
- Trump increasingly normalized among reluctant center-rightists
- many 2016 NeverTrumpers are full-on partisan Dems now
- RFK took over the "generic protest vote" mantle in many states
- certain longtime libertarian planks, like immigration liberalization, drug legalization, and criminal justice reform, seem outright comical to many soft right-libertarian types in light of the past few years
- Trump promised to put a libertarian in his cabinet (doubt he follows through)

[Mr. Smith]

Jill Stein struck a chord on the one issue neither of the Duopoly cared for dealing with all the way, Gaza.

What did Oliver offer on the matter at all?

[Rhode Islander First, American Second]

America isn’t ready for a gay president.

[Joe Biden 2028]

The only reason people people ever vote for the libertarian party (or third parties in general) is to say FU to one of the main parties. Or an FU to society at large.

This time it was more acceptable to vote for Trump. So Trump won the FU voters this time around.

[Open Source Intelligence]

The national leadership is controlled by another wing of the party that hate him and actively sabotaged him. The current leadership are the Mises Caucus which are effectively a successor to Ron Paul Libertarianism. Ron Paul states he's a lifetime Libertarian because he holds a lifetime membership, but after his 1988 presidential run on the ballot he's always been a Republican. Mises took control in 2022 National Convention and there's some evidence out there they received financial backing from people like Steve Bannon.

Oliver is from what is called the libertarian left. Reason he became a Libertarian was he was anti-war, voted for Obama in 2008, and Obama took office and Democrats magically stopped caring about being anti-war. The existence of people like Oliver in the party is infuriating to people like the Mises Caucus. He's also gay which there's a handful of politically active people in the party that are gay, and the more culturally conservative political types don't care for that at all.

Come 2024 National Convention, Mises were all gung-ho about Dave Smith for President (National Chair Angela McArdle herself said in a text message from 2023 meant to be private that became public that the only time Mises was excited to do anything for the party was Dave Smith for President. Smith chose not to run late (allegedly Spike Cohen and Justin Amash both stepped aside for Smith so he could run), a very pro-Trump recently before and Mises Board member Michael Rectenwald was parachuted in as Mises Plan B, and Oliver wound up defeating Rectenwald but not getting a majority. Mises then tried to nominate None of the Above, meaning there would be no nationally-nominated presidential candidate, but Oliver defeated that. Everyone of note in the party that backed Rectenwald later became a Kennedy or Trump supporter.

In the aftermath of Oliver getting the nomination, the party leadership openly backed Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Donald Trump financially and rhetorically. The Libertarian Party in Colorado was going to nominate Robert Kennedy Jr. on their line. National Secretary and Colorado Libertarian Caryn Ann Harlos turned in the paperwork saying Chase Oliver was the Libertarian nominee. This made the Chair there who was a Mises person/Kennedy supporter furious. They took this to the Secretary of State in Colorado who said this could not be overturned. And this past weekend the Libertarian National Committee (2 of the now 3 remaining officers are not Mises, but Mises controls all the regional reps except for the Upper Midwest-based region, not sure if there are any others) voted to remove Harlos as National Secretary. The irony is Harlos was removed as National Secretary in mid-2021 (she has a very bristly personality as well as being the biggest proponent of bullsh*tting proceedings through the use of Robert's Rules of Order), and this became a cause celebre for Mises at the 2022 Convention they swept control to reinstate Harlos as National Secretary.

Mises succeeded here. I think at least some of them are working for the Republican Party to systematically destroy the Libertarian Party so that people such as myself that aren't Democrats but hate the post-Trump Republican Party have nowhere else to go and are then forced to choose either Trump or Harris. Gary Johnson's two presidential runs and Jo Jorgensen was the 1st, 2nd, and 4th most successful presidential runs the party ever had. Such things are crimes against democracy in my opinion, but neither the Republicans or the Democrats and what covert influence they have on Green Party and other left-wing organizations are never going to make it such. All you're left with is investigating the finances and if money laundering is going on. For people in the party, next convention is in Justin Amash's hometown of Grand Rapids, Michigan, in 2026.

[TheElectoralBoobyPrize]

Voted Jorgenson 2020 - Trump 2024 myself.

Jorgenson 2020-Harris 2024 here (because lockdowns were my #1 issue in 2020 and democracy was my #1 issue in 2024).

[Open Source Intelligence]

The national leadership is controlled by another wing of the party that hate him and actively sabotaged him. The current leadership are the Mises Caucus which are effectively a successor to Ron Paul Libertarianism. Ron Paul states he's a lifetime Libertarian because he holds a lifetime membership, but after his 1988 presidential run on the ballot he's always been a Republican. Mises took control in 2022 National Convention and there's some evidence out there they received financial backing from people like Steve Bannon.

Oliver is from what is called the libertarian left. Reason he became a Libertarian was he was anti-war, voted for Obama in 2008, and Obama took office and Democrats magically stopped caring about being anti-war. The existence of people like Oliver in the party is infuriating to people like the Mises Caucus. He's also gay which there's a handful of politically active people in the party that are gay, and the more culturally conservative political types don't care for that at all.

Come 2024 National Convention, Mises were all gung-ho about Dave Smith for President (National Chair Angela McArdle herself said in a text message from 2023 meant to be private that became public that the only time Mises was excited to do anything for the party was Dave Smith for President. Smith chose not to run late (allegedly Spike Cohen and Justin Amash both stepped aside for Smith so he could run), a very pro-Trump recently before and Mises Board member Michael Rectenwald was parachuted in as Mises Plan B, and Oliver wound up defeating Rectenwald but not getting a majority. Mises then tried to nominate None of the Above, meaning there would be no nationally-nominated presidential candidate, but Oliver defeated that. Everyone of note in the party that backed Rectenwald later became a Kennedy or Trump supporter.

In the aftermath of Oliver getting the nomination, the party leadership openly backed Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Donald Trump financially and rhetorically. The Libertarian Party in Colorado was going to nominate Robert Kennedy Jr. on their line. National Secretary and Colorado Libertarian Caryn Ann Harlos turned in the paperwork saying Chase Oliver was the Libertarian nominee. This made the Chair there who was a Mises person/Kennedy supporter furious. They took this to the Secretary of State in Colorado who said this could not be overturned. And this past weekend the Libertarian National Committee (2 of the now 3 remaining officers are not Mises, but Mises controls all the regional reps except for the Upper Midwest-based region, not sure if there are any others) voted to remove Harlos as National Secretary. The irony is Harlos was removed as National Secretary in mid-2021 (she has a very bristly personality as well as being the biggest proponent of bullsh*tting proceedings through the use of Robert's Rules of Order), and this became a cause celebre for Mises at the 2022 Convention they swept control to reinstate Harlos as National Secretary.

Mises succeeded here. I think at least some of them are working for the Republican Party to systematically destroy the Libertarian Party so that people such as myself that aren't Democrats but hate the post-Trump Republican Party have nowhere else to go and are then forced to choose either Trump or Harris. Gary Johnson's two presidential runs and Jo Jorgensen was the 1st, 2nd, and 4th most successful presidential runs the party ever had. Such things are crimes against democracy in my opinion, but neither the Republicans or the Democrats and what covert influence they have on Green Party and other left-wing organizations are never going to make it such. All you're left with is investigating the finances and if money laundering is going on. For people in the party, next convention is in Justin Amash's hometown of Grand Rapids, Michigan, in 2026.

To provide some backup for this:

https://twitter.com/LibertySentries/status/1860517788969812254
Hannah is Hannah Goldman, Colorado LP Chair where they tried to put RFK Jr. on the ballot for the party. She also had signed a pre-National Convention letter calling for the party to nominate Kennedy. Kennedy got the support of about 2% of the delegates in the 1st round.

There's no Libertarian or libertarian nominated to the Cabinet by Trump, so Angela, her backers and Mises to not say they got played for dumbasses are saying RFK Jr. is that libertarian. The original stated hopes were Vivek, Mike Lee, and Massie.

The notion of Ross Ulbricht getting a pardon being something the official party should accept selling out for, I don't understand why I should give a sh*t in comparison to literally everything else going on in the country.

[Aurelius2]

- Trump promised to put a libertarian in his cabinet (doubt he follows through)

Figured he wouldn't. And they're now claiming wannabe-tyrant RFK is the libertarian. Psychosis.

[Arizona Iced Tea]

- Trump promised to put a libertarian in his cabinet (doubt he follows through)

Figured he wouldn't. And they're now claiming wannabe-tyrant RFK is the libertarian. Psychosis.

If you watched his LNC speech, the deal was IF he recieved the Libertarian nomination. Instead they booed him and chose to get their 0.5% instead of wanting that offer.

[Aurelius2]

- Trump promised to put a libertarian in his cabinet (doubt he follows through)

Figured he wouldn't. And they're now claiming wannabe-tyrant RFK is the libertarian. Psychosis.

If you watched his LNC speech, the deal was IF he recieved the Libertarian nomination. Instead they booed him and chose to get their 0.5% instead of wanting that offer.

That is not what he said. Not that it matters because he's an egotist for whom words are mere tools, but it is what it is. I never actually expected him to follow through on this, to be clear.

Not like my vote would have changed the outcome, now I just gotta cross my finger and hope that the deportations go well and the Caesarist crap doesn't.

[Open Source Intelligence]

- Trump promised to put a libertarian in his cabinet (doubt he follows through)

Figured he wouldn't. And they're now claiming wannabe-tyrant RFK is the libertarian. Psychosis.

If you watched his LNC speech, the deal was IF he recieved the Libertarian nomination. Instead they booed him and chose to get their 0.5% instead of wanting that offer.

Here's a link to the video because it's been making the rounds the past couple days.

Verbatim quote from Donald Trump at the video at the link:

http://x.com/werlibertarians/status/1860415681939812862

That is why I am committing to you tonight that I will put a libertarian in my cabinet and also libertarians in senior posts.

Lying liar that lies lied to Angela and she was dumb enough to accept. That's the incompetence take. The malice take is her and others have been working for the Republicans all along. (And if they weren't, if you assume they were, would you do anything differently?) Give this presidency a year and either she'll out herself as a Republican plant or she's going to be out of politics rest of her life due to being a naïve dumbass.

I'll also share this story from Fort Wayne politics. Lebamoff was Mayor 1972 through 1975.

Years ago, the story goes, on winning the election Ivan Lebamoff was in the process of forming his cabinet. One young lawyer had been told by Ivan, or so that young lawyer recalled, that he would become city attorney if he worked hard enough in the campaign: back then, as now, the position means to all sorts of fees and payments and a sure route to prosperity for the firm of the chosen attorney. The young attorney’s calls to the mayor went unanswered. The young attorney became anxious. He expected a meeting with Mayor Lebamoff. Finally, after a dozen calls the attorney reached the mayor’s personal secretary. Ivan overheard the conversation, it is recounted, and simply muttered, “tell him I lied.” Hope springs eternal in each candidate’s camp where workers spend hours on phones in the hope their work or contribution will buy them a job or “access.” The candidate becomes a tease who encourages hope, but never quite utters a clear promise, except Ivan, or so we are told.

[CentristRepublican]

To provide some backup for this:

https://twitter.com/LibertySentries/status/1860517788969812254
Hannah is Hannah Goldman, Colorado LP Chair where they tried to put RFK Jr. on the ballot for the party. She also had signed a pre-National Convention letter calling for the party to nominate Kennedy. Kennedy got the support of about 2% of the delegates in the 1st round.

There's no Libertarian or libertarian nominated to the Cabinet by Trump, so Angela, her backers and Mises to not say they got played for dumbasses are saying RFK Jr. is that libertarian. The original stated hopes were Vivek, Mike Lee, and Massie.

The notion of Ross Ulbricht getting a pardon being something the official party should accept selling out for, I don't understand why I should give a sh*t in comparison to literally everything else going on in the country.

Perhaps the biggest red flag here is the National Chair of the Libertarian Party using DISCORD to discuss the party's political strategy  

[Zenobiyl]

Open Source Intelligence was talking about it in the third party thread but most of the National Committee were actively rooting for Trump and cut support to Oliver. Unfortunately the Mises Group wanted Trump to win and had no interest in what state the party would be in after the election

This was perfectly demonstrated  by the fact that almost 40% of the libertarian convention delegates voted to nuke their ballot access by nominating ‘none of the above’ for president.

[CentristRepublican]

- Trump promised to put a libertarian in his cabinet (doubt he follows through)

Figured he wouldn't. And they're now claiming wannabe-tyrant RFK is the libertarian. Psychosis.

If you watched his LNC speech, the deal was IF he recieved the Libertarian nomination. Instead they booed him and chose to get their 0.5% instead of wanting that offer.

Here's a link to the video because it's been making the rounds the past couple days.

Verbatim quote from Donald Trump at the video at the link:

http://x.com/werlibertarians/status/1860415681939812862

That is why I am committing to you tonight that I will put a libertarian in my cabinet and also libertarians in senior posts.

Lying liar that lies lied to Angela and she was dumb enough to accept. That's the incompetence take. The malice take is her and others have been working for the Republicans all along. (And if they weren't, if you assume they were, would you do anything differently?) Give this presidency a year and either she'll out herself as a Republican plant or she's going to be out of politics rest of her life due to being a naïve dumbass.

I'll also share this story from Fort Wayne politics. Lebamoff was Mayor 1972 through 1975.

Years ago, the story goes, on winning the election Ivan Lebamoff was in the process of forming his cabinet. One young lawyer had been told by Ivan, or so that young lawyer recalled, that he would become city attorney if he worked hard enough in the campaign: back then, as now, the position means to all sorts of fees and payments and a sure route to prosperity for the firm of the chosen attorney. The young attorney’s calls to the mayor went unanswered. The young attorney became anxious. He expected a meeting with Mayor Lebamoff. Finally, after a dozen calls the attorney reached the mayor’s personal secretary. Ivan overheard the conversation, it is recounted, and simply muttered, “tell him I lied.” Hope springs eternal in each candidate’s camp where workers spend hours on phones in the hope their work or contribution will buy them a job or “access.” The candidate becomes a tease who encourages hope, but never quite utters a clear promise, except Ivan, or so we are told.

Politicians lie. Never take one at their word. News at 11.

The fact that this really is news to the national chair of the Libertarian Parties - if we accept the premise that she acted in good faith and not as an R hack - then it's clear that the party needs new, smarter and more competent, leadership.

[Open Source Intelligence]

Open Source Intelligence was talking about it in the third party thread but most of the National Committee were actively rooting for Trump and cut support to Oliver. Unfortunately the Mises Group wanted Trump to win and had no interest in what state the party would be in after the election

This was perfectly demonstrated  by the fact that almost 40% of the libertarian convention delegates voted to nuke their ballot access by nominating ‘none of the above’ for president.

If we had an active national party fighting for Chase, we would've had ballot access in Illinois and Tennessee at minimum. We probably still don't get on New York State and I don't know about D.C. Illinois is a high bar because Illinois is a corrupt state politically and Eric Redpath who is a longtime activist in the party as concerns ballot access and funding ballot access drives for the party across the country, the new owner of Ballot Access News as Richard Winger hits retirement, and was elected the National Treasurer (against Mises Caucus's wishes) at the 2024 National Convention, is from Illinois and was involved early, but still didn't get over the hump.

Tennessee in contrast is an incredibly low bar, to get on the ballot as an Independent you need 275 signatures. That that didn't happen was a Tennessee Libertarian State Party that didn't lift a finger to do anything when you consider that for the purposes of our National Convention in the summer, it says Tennessee has 292 national party members that pay dues to the national party. That's not even counting any other random voter in Tennessee could sign a petition form.

[Open Source Intelligence]

- Trump promised to put a libertarian in his cabinet (doubt he follows through)

Figured he wouldn't. And they're now claiming wannabe-tyrant RFK is the libertarian. Psychosis.

If you watched his LNC speech, the deal was IF he recieved the Libertarian nomination. Instead they booed him and chose to get their 0.5% instead of wanting that offer.

Here's a link to the video because it's been making the rounds the past couple days.

Verbatim quote from Donald Trump at the video at the link:

http://x.com/werlibertarians/status/1860415681939812862

That is why I am committing to you tonight that I will put a libertarian in my cabinet and also libertarians in senior posts.

Lying liar that lies lied to Angela and she was dumb enough to accept. That's the incompetence take. The malice take is her and others have been working for the Republicans all along. (And if they weren't, if you assume they were, would you do anything differently?) Give this presidency a year and either she'll out herself as a Republican plant or she's going to be out of politics rest of her life due to being a naïve dumbass.

I'll also share this story from Fort Wayne politics. Lebamoff was Mayor 1972 through 1975.

Years ago, the story goes, on winning the election Ivan Lebamoff was in the process of forming his cabinet. One young lawyer had been told by Ivan, or so that young lawyer recalled, that he would become city attorney if he worked hard enough in the campaign: back then, as now, the position means to all sorts of fees and payments and a sure route to prosperity for the firm of the chosen attorney. The young attorney’s calls to the mayor went unanswered. The young attorney became anxious. He expected a meeting with Mayor Lebamoff. Finally, after a dozen calls the attorney reached the mayor’s personal secretary. Ivan overheard the conversation, it is recounted, and simply muttered, “tell him I lied.” Hope springs eternal in each candidate’s camp where workers spend hours on phones in the hope their work or contribution will buy them a job or “access.” The candidate becomes a tease who encourages hope, but never quite utters a clear promise, except Ivan, or so we are told.

Politicians lie. Never take one at their word. News at 11.

Angela McArdle missed that class obviously. However, I think this is more malice than incompetence. They needed an excuse to tell the membership on what they wanted to do anyway, and that was their excuse.