Ireland General Discussion

[afleitch]

FTR, I'm enjoying this fireside chat

[afleitch]

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I wouldn't say liberals (of the US type, not the classical liberal type) are self-hating. They are self gratifying; seeking to soothe their conscience through idealistic posturing rather than seek a rational solution. The 'intellectual' liberal left are effective at closing down debate and then indulging itself on a self-defeating, post-communist, anti-American and anti-western ideological binge in which they would rather wallow in cultural relativism and false equivalencies than tackle the reality of society around them (not that it ever is 'around' them; they themselves are literally distant from the problems they claim to understand and the people they claim to represent)

Alot of conservatives hate intellectualism (or arguments grounded in it) because they see the intellectuals as liberals! Theres a mutual distrust. However it runs much deeper than that. Conservative opposition to gay adoption for example is based non on a 'just cause' but a 'just 'cos' rationale. There's nothing out there, at least put out there by great men of their field to suggest there is anything positive or negative (or, better 'beneficial' or 'unbeneficial' about it. But those great men are in themselves 'intellectuals' and not to be trusted (even if they are the only people who know what the hell they are talking about) - so conservatives can often retreat into populist territory. Of course many don't and increasingly more chose not to which is only a bonus.

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From a small 'n' Scottish nationalist looking in, historically 'anti-British' feeling blinded succesive governments for a good forty years, which is unfortunate as things weren't that bad to begin with. You were not an emerging third world nation with white majority rule, you didn't live under the Raj, you had full representation within the Commons and were treated pretty much the same as any other Home Nation.

My papa, my mothers father was of Irish immigrant stock and he would be the first to never make us forget that. But he also fought in WW2 and he could never quite forgive 'The Emergency'; the indifference (verging on the unsympathetic) response by the Irish government during WW2. You were, technically, still a Dominion but unlike distant countries like Canada, Australia, New Zealand who had nothing to gain and everything to loose, rather that 'small nations like Ireland do not and cannot assume a role as defenders of just causes except their own...existence of our own people comes before all other considerations.' What utter sh-t Of course I am aware that there were internal divisions and opposing sides (again) in WW2, two opposing foreign batallions Spanish Civil War and the 40,000 Irish who joined British batallions etc. It's certainly not a charge against the people, but against the government. Thankfully times have moved on and the occasional 'whitewash' over that era in history has been rightfully scrubbed off.

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And it's language, skin colour, religion etc if we want to discrad poltiical correctness and be completely honest. :/

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What is ironic is that, politically the last time Ireland was united was under British Rule/Part of the United Kingdom.

[afleitch]

On a completely unrelated topic and for help elsewhere (specifically an RP)- what is the general Irish view of redheads?

As the question befuddles me greatly, I'll have to pass on this one unfortunately.

My boyfriend likes red-heads..ask him He's not Irish, but he's an O'Brien..close enough.

For the record, 10% of Irish have red hair and 13% of Scots have red hair. The recessive gene is carried by about 40-45% of the Irish and Scottish populations.

[afleitch]

Watching the fall of Bertie Ahern is just so utterly painful and pointless, just go man so we here no more this.

However No-one really cares as very few people in this country really give too much of a damn about our political class, and that includes at elections and the media, who just pretend to but usually end up rolling over and providing senators.

[/cynic]

What are the polls showing?

[afleitch]

Data released from the same TNS mrbi poll (per today's Irish Times) as referenced above on support for the Lisbon Treaty:

In favour	43%
Against	39%
Don't Know	18%

The Government has committed itself to coming up with it's plans regarding the Treaty at the December European Council. I'd expect the psoition to be something akin to a proposal for a second referendum in the latter half of 2009 with some sort of prior EU commitment reaffirming Ireland's sovereignty on taxation matters, neutrality, abortion law and possibly a decision such that each EU state will continue to have a permanent Commissioner.


Also, it looks like MI5 seem to think our leaders are worth listening to for some reason - Irish Independent article.

Or on other words, keep voting until they get the answer they want

[afleitch]

A second no would probably see Mr Sarkozy calling for our heads and we'd find out who our friends in Europe really are as we're prodded towards the door.

Well we vote for each other in Eurovision. Does that count?

[afleitch]

They must be desperate if the only option they can think of is "WE NEEDZ ANOTHER REFERENDUMB!!1111". I'm already preparing for its epochal fail come next Autumn. Especially if the economy stays the way it is (or rather the media going OMG OMG OMG RECESSION OMG) and Cowen maintains his current stellar popularity.

'Right guys, it's failed a second time. We really need to think of what to do next'

'A third referendum?

'My god you're brilliant'

[afleitch]

I for one welcome our new EU/IMF overlords.

Does this mean I like now own 2 meters of the M50? If so I'm so charging a toll

[afleitch]

Sort've related, but sort've not:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOQmuh_YPOk&feature=sub

Name me a politician of any worth who didn't say that about the Irish economy back in 2006

[afleitch]

Irish accents (Southern not 'Nrn') abound in Glasgow yesterday...and they weren't on a holiday. At the bus station the usual Rail-Sail bus dropped people off with suitcases reading jobs supplements. Probably about 10 people but that's got to be a major fear for the Irish given the downturn; it's cheap and quick to head to the UK.

[afleitch]

The poor woman as a Hindu may not have died in a 'state of grace.'

[afleitch]

Another reminder of Ireland's quite disturbing clerical past.

http://www.thejournal.ie/symphysiotomy-survivors-gather-to-recount-stories-of-torture-673113-Nov2012/

The limp is a common ailment in women who have suffered through symphysiotomies, a painful surgical procedure used in maternity hospitals across Ireland in the 20th century. Other problems include chronic back pain and incontinence.

Often performed in the place of the more commonplace Caesarean section, symphysiotomies involved breaking the woman’s pelvis during childbirth. The Survivors of Symphysiotomy (SOS) group claims that the operations were carried out without prior knowledge or consent “mainly for religious reasons, by obstetricians who were opposed to family planning.”

The last operation was carried out in 1984.

[afleitch]

At least Irish voters are not as stupid as Scottish ones where until a few years ago, the Labour candidate could take a dump on your doorstep and still win your vote.

[afleitch]

Oh Ireland. 81%? Talk about making up for lost time

[afleitch]

Why so damn high?

This is Ireland. 50% odds that it'll end up very close anyways.

As Lewis points out there is any referendum in Ireland with few exceptions a big swing to the 'no change' option during the campaign. However, the poll is an excellent sign.

Also can people commenting on this please not refer to ridiculous cliches about the country which barely have any resemblance in fact these days? And no, Wikipedia knowledge is not knowledge.

Calm down you 11th son of a potato farmer you. Jesus, Mary and the saints be praised. Don't you know that 'Ireland In The Head' is a great American tradition? It's what makes people get drunk on St Patrick's Day. It's what make men like Chad Zapowski desperately seek his Irish roots. It's what makes people get pidgin Gaelic tribal tatoos. It's what allows people to make vague cultural and religious appeals to heritage so they justify being assholes (or should that be arse-holes?)

[afleitch]

Are those who oppose same-sex marriage homophobic? 41-59

Well no one want's to have to hand over hush money to the Iona Institute do they

[afleitch]

Little mention from major sources yes, but this particular scandal breaking all over the intertubes

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I’ve been following this over the last few days. Regardless of the causes of death (which may or may not be of concern at present) the fact that these 800 victims were deemed to not be worthy of a proper burial speaks volumes of what the nuns likely thought of them.

[afleitch]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/26/ireland-court-rules-brain-dead-pregnant-womans-life-support-switched-off

Thank f-ck.

[afleitch]

1986 isn't 30 years ago. How is this related to the 30 year rule?

The 'rule' is in transition. Some documents from 20-30 years ago can be released if cleared.

[afleitch]

Might not be the right place here, but can I find it ironic that Veritas Renua's principle is to move away from the domination of 'left-rightpolitics'. What f-cking Ireland have they been living in for the past 90 years.

That's me. I'm done.