Opinion of Barack Obama

[Blue3]

I keep saying it, but we need a third choice in these polls... MM (moderate meh).
I'm not voting for that reason.

The 2008 election was important, as was his re-election and ending things on overall positive terms with positive approval.

But so much of his legacy was undone by Trump in literally just 2016-2017. The morale of Obama's 2008 election? Almost completely cancelled-out by Trump's.

So many of his executive orders in his second term (which we all did want him to do after congressional gridlock when the Tea Party took over) were also immediately repealed - many put back in place by Biden, but still, not a lasting legacy, just depends on who's in office and which ones might have become less controversial.

Obama spent nearly all of his political capital on the healthcare law, which was huge, but that was it. And we're still trying to fill in the gaps... from better reigning in pharmaceutical costs, to creating a public option for insurance. Other laws were passed too, such as the stimulus package and the financial reform (though both were in response to the 2008 financial collapse, and the Bush Bank Bailout had already happened there).

Speaking of the collapse... he had the political capital to go much further... mainstream news was debating the feasibility of Bank Nationalization even... and even if Obama decided against that, he should have been more ambitious, maybe even publically more ambitious than was realistic (something he struggled with often, usually starting with what he thought was a good compromise... but then had to compromise from there).

He did end the Iraq War (thought on Bush's timetable, and we went back in due to ISIS), but surged in Afghanistan, and wasn't assertive enough to stand up to the generals and withdraw from Afghanistan with limited progress there. He did do the Iran nuclear deal and begin to normalize relations with Cuba, but again Trump began to undo that pretty quickly. He was also totally wrong on Russia... it was good to try to reset relations, but there needed to be more realism. Also, things like the bombings in Yemen and targeting of even U.S. civilians, which (as I was originally an ardent Obama defender) really do seem more and more like a large taint on his legacy. As well as him not dismantling a lot of the post-9/11 Bush-Cheney surveillance state and indefinite emergency war powers that were authorized. So it ended up being a mixed bag on foreign policy (at least for what lasted beyond him), and a big failure on restoring civic liberties.

I will also say... people often misremember what Obama actually campaigned on. The primaries were all about how Hillary would be too divisive, and how Obama saying how he would be more appealing to Republicans and be a national uniter that got rid of the idea of red states and blue states. He had some liberal ideas, mostly ending the war in Iraq and healthcare reform. For policies, those were what stuck out. He mostly wanted to "heal the nation." Which he did not do, and we all recognize that. At least now Democrats know this, and also are (mostly) ready to get rid of the filibuster, something that was seen as sacred even by Democrats in the first Obama term.

But building on the above... Obama's promise really was about the more general "hope and change." A change from the Bush years. Things can get better and to have hope (after 9/11 and the collective fear the country was in for years, which young adults now don't remember as much, since some of it has gone away and some of it just accepted). Also to have hope after the awful years of 2005-2008, when the Bush presidency really had high-level mistakes and bad luck: Hurricane Katrina in 2005 almost viewed as a nature's 9/11, and then the Iraqi Shia-Sunni Civil War really taking off in 2006 after the destruction of the sacred golden dome mosque. And then the oil price surge in 2005 onwards. And then the housing collapse beginning in 2007. And then the bank failures, stock collapse, deep recession, and basically the biggest economic collapse since the Great Depression in 2008. It was change from the Bush years, and hope that things will get better again. Like I said, the only policy goals that really came up were healthcare and Iraq (before the financial collapse), and secondarily there was talk of "cap and trade" to create a capitalist incentive to reduce carbon (a very "moderate meh" approach to climate change) and to pass Bush's failed push for immigration reform.

The policy was NOT the point of the campaign, the Hope and Change described above was.

Part of that is something that Obama and his campaign continuously avoided and downplayed, but obviously, him becoming the first African-American president would be seen as hope and change for many. Just the morale boost. And he would be a healer and a uniter who could compromise with Republicans and still get stuff down on Iraq and hopefully healthcare. And that he was just a fresh face, a nice guy, not someone you've already seen on the news for decades like John McCain or Hillary Clinton.

Fear of Sarah Palin also shouldn't be underestimated as a factor in 2008, a late factor that (along with the financial collapse) McCain looked incompetent trying to handle (as well as caution with McCain's more pro-war policies). And then all of the bad things associated with the Bush years.

Obama was nowhere close to Sanders in terms of policy campaigning. His campaign painted Hillary as the leftist. Of course, for the big progressive champions, Obama didn't shun their support... he was just friendly and open to listening, saying we'll work on the issues overall, but there were never clear progressive priorities besides ending the Iraq War and doing something on healthcare. I don't think he was deceiving... I think he was naive, and really didn't think of detailed policy solutions, he just wanted to bring Democrats and Republicans together to work on his bullet-point list that he'd simply put on their agenda ("First, get Republicans and Democrats to come up with a large-scale healthcare law that really helps, and they can figure out the details of what that is, let's put out what that Republican governor did in Massachusetts for an example, I just know we need better insurance regulations and insurance markets. Second, I'll ask Republicans and Democrats to work on climate change, this "cap and trade" policy sounds like a good idea that won't rock the boat, let's give them that as an example, and I'm sure they'll come up with a great solution. Third, let's try to bring back what Bush tried to pass on immigration reform, see what made some Democrats and Republicans back out, tweak it, then get it done. Fourth, ... etc.") Iraq was clear, it was just simple... end the war, and withdraw the troops.

And even then, the Ron Paul anti-war movement (the nascent libertarian side of the Tea Party movement, but starting as just the Republicans' antiwar movement with very old principles) inside the GOP was beginning to form, and Bush himself agreed to a withdrawal timetable before Obama became president.

Why am I saying this? A lot of people thought Obama was promising something he really wasn't. Not for people who remember the 2008 election (which also really started in early 2007). His top priorities were to usher in a post-racial and post-partisan politics and culture, and just give us some hope.

As for 2012, it was basically all defense, arguing the great/long recession would soon end and that unemployment would soon go down (which they did, thankfully), opposing what Romney would do if in office, and opposing what the deficit hawk wing of the Tea Party would send to Romney's desk -- overall, his 2012 campaign was much more accepting of reality. Again, I don't think he was being deceptive in 2008, just naive... and keeping policies vague (since they were secondary) just allowed a lot of people to project their own wishes onto what "hope" and "change" could be.

So I think it's unfair to rate Obama on things he never said he wanted to stand for (though it is fair to rate on lack of policy ambition, it's just nonsensical to be disappointed on baseless assumptions that don't remember the actual context of the election). As for his actual legacy, see above. Moderate Meh.

[heatcharger]

I keep saying it, but we need a third choice in these polls... MM (moderate meh).
I'm not voting for that reason.

The 2008 election was important, as was his re-election and ending things on overall positive terms with positive approval.

But so much of his legacy was undone by Trump in literally just 2016-2017. The morale of Obama's 2008 election? Almost completely cancelled-out by Trump's.

So many of his executive orders in his second term (which we all did want him to do after congressional gridlock when the Tea Party took over) were also immediately repealed - many put back in place by Biden, but still, not a lasting legacy, just depends on who's in office and which ones might have become less controversial.

Obama spent nearly all of his political capital on the healthcare law, which was huge, but that was it. And we're still trying to fill in the gaps... from better reigning in pharmaceutical costs, to creating a public option for insurance. Other laws were passed too, such as the stimulus package and the financial reform (though both were in response to the 2008 financial collapse, and the Bush Bank Bailout had already happened there).

Speaking of the collapse... he had the political capital to go much further... mainstream news was debating the feasibility of Bank Nationalization even... and even if Obama decided against that, he should have been more ambitious, maybe even publically more ambitious than was realistic (something he struggled with often, usually starting with what he thought was a good compromise... but then had to compromise from there).

He did end the Iraq War (thought on Bush's timetable, and we went back in due to ISIS), but surged in Afghanistan, and wasn't assertive enough to stand up to the generals and withdraw from Afghanistan with limited progress there. He did do the Iran nuclear deal and begin to normalize relations with Cuba, but again Trump began to undo that pretty quickly. He was also totally wrong on Russia... it was good to try to reset relations, but there needed to be more realism. Also, things like the bombings in Yemen and targeting of even U.S. civilians, which (as I was originally an ardent Obama defender) really do seem more and more like a large taint on his legacy. As well as him not dismantling a lot of the post-9/11 Bush-Cheney surveillance state and indefinite emergency war powers that were authorized. So it ended up being a mixed bag on foreign policy (at least for what lasted beyond him), and a big failure on restoring civic liberties.

I will also say... people often misremember what Obama actually campaigned on. The primaries were all about how Hillary would be too divisive, and how Obama saying how he would be more appealing to Republicans and be a national uniter that got rid of the idea of red states and blue states. He had some liberal ideas, mostly ending the war in Iraq and healthcare reform. For policies, those were what stuck out. He mostly wanted to "heal the nation." Which he did not do, and we all recognize that. At least now Democrats know this, and also are (mostly) ready to get rid of the filibuster, something that was seen as sacred even by Democrats in the first Obama term.

But building on the above... Obama's promise really was about the more general "hope and change." A change from the Bush years. Things can get better and to have hope (after 9/11 and the collective fear the country was in for years, which young adults now don't remember as much, since some of it has gone away and some of it just accepted). Also to have hope after the awful years of 2005-2008, when the Bush presidency really had high-level mistakes and bad luck: Hurricane Katrina in 2005 almost viewed as a nature's 9/11, and then the Iraqi Shia-Sunni Civil War really taking off in 2006 after the destruction of the sacred golden dome mosque. And then the oil price surge in 2005 onwards. And then the housing collapse beginning in 2007. And then the bank failures, stock collapse, deep recession, and basically the biggest economic collapse since the Great Depression in 2008. It was change from the Bush years, and hope that things will get better again. Like I said, the only policy goals that really came up were healthcare and Iraq (before the financial collapse), and secondarily there was talk of "cap and trade" to create a capitalist incentive to reduce carbon (a very "moderate meh" approach to climate change) and to pass Bush's failed push for immigration reform.

The policy was NOT the point of the campaign, the Hope and Change described above was.

Part of that is something that Obama and his campaign continuously avoided and downplayed, but obviously, him becoming the first African-American president would be seen as hope and change for many. Just the morale boost. And he would be a healer and a uniter who could compromise with Republicans and still get stuff down on Iraq and hopefully healthcare. And that he was just a fresh face, a nice guy, not someone you've already seen on the news for decades like John McCain or Hillary Clinton.

Fear of Sarah Palin also shouldn't be underestimated as a factor in 2008, a late factor that (along with the financial collapse) McCain looked incompetent trying to handle (as well as caution with McCain's more pro-war policies). And then all of the bad things associated with the Bush years.

Obama was nowhere close to Sanders in terms of policy campaigning. His campaign painted Hillary as the leftist. Of course, for the big progressive champions, Obama didn't shun their support... he was just friendly and open to listening, saying we'll work on the issues overall, but there were never clear progressive priorities besides ending the Iraq War and doing something on healthcare. I don't think he was deceiving... I think he was naive, and really didn't think of detailed policy solutions, he just wanted to bring Democrats and Republicans together to work on his bullet-point list that he'd simply put on their agenda ("First, get Republicans and Democrats to come up with a large-scale healthcare law that really helps, and they can figure out the details of what that is, let's put out what that Republican governor did in Massachusetts for an example, I just know we need better insurance regulations and insurance markets. Second, I'll ask Republicans and Democrats to work on climate change, this "cap and trade" policy sounds like a good idea that won't rock the boat, let's give them that as an example, and I'm sure they'll come up with a great solution. Third, let's try to bring back what Bush tried to pass on immigration reform, see what made some Democrats and Republicans back out, tweak it, then get it done. Fourth, ... etc.") Iraq was clear, it was just simple... end the war, and withdraw the troops.

And even then, the Ron Paul anti-war movement (the nascent libertarian side of the Tea Party movement, but starting as just the Republicans' antiwar movement with very old principles) inside the GOP was beginning to form, and Bush himself agreed to a withdrawal timetable before Obama became president.

Why am I saying this? A lot of people thought Obama was promising something he really wasn't. Not for people who remember the 2008 election (which also really started in early 2007). His top priorities were to usher in a post-racial and post-partisan politics and culture, and just give us some hope.

As for 2012, it was basically all defense, arguing the great/long recession would soon end and that unemployment would soon go down (which they did, thankfully), opposing what Romney would do if in office, and opposing what the deficit hawk wing of the Tea Party would send to Romney's desk -- overall, his 2012 campaign was much more accepting of reality. Again, I don't think he was being deceptive in 2008, just naive... and keeping policies vague (since they were secondary) just allowed a lot of people to project their own wishes onto what "hope" and "change" could be.

So I think it's unfair to rate Obama on things he never said he wanted to stand for (though it is fair to rate on lack of policy ambition, it's just nonsensical to be disappointed on baseless assumptions that don't remember the actual context of the election). As for his actual legacy, see above. Moderate Meh.

Many good points here.

[JSojourner]

Great. Few better.