while you were worried about two gays getting married....

[WalterMitty]

....the median household income in the us declined from $47,599 in 2000 to $46,326 in 2005....a difference of $1,273.

average household income declined in 30 states during that period.

wages will continue to decline until we get a handle on the health care crisis.


i know these issues arent nearly as important as mitt romney's latest stance on abortion....

[Keystone Phil]

i know these issues arent nearly as important as mitt romney's latest stance on abortion....

You're right. We shouldn't care about Romney's latest stance. It should be universally accepted that he is a fake so we don't have to discuss it anymore. I'm sure your point is that the media shouldn't be paying attention to that. However, if your point is that it is wrong to discuss the abortion issue in general because it is "not important" then I'm going to have to disagree.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

The right isn't going to win on abortion. Get over it.

[Citizen James]

2 questions.

1. Is that adjusted for inflation or not adjusted for inflation?

2. Do you have a cite for these statistics.

As we are talking about a median number, such a drop is fairly dramatic - even if it is adjusted for inflation (and far worse if it is not).

Walter, I fear you may be one of the few remaining members of an endangered  species - the fiscal conservative.   Hang in there - I believe that America will eventually regain it's senses and moral rudder.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It's a Bush economy. What do you expect? For those of us old enough to remember his father's Presidency, different George Bush, same sh**tty economy.

[Conan]

Why don't we have an independent post this or a someone from a party who didn't create the situation or cares about it. Then we can see some credibility of how a person actually cares about the subject.

[Gabu]

Why don't we have an independent post this or a someone from a party who didn't create the situation or cares about it. Then we can see some credibility of how a person actually cares about the subject.

Perhaps if you saw people as people instead of as party labels, you would recognize that WalterMitty is not exactly your average Republican.

[WalterMitty]

2 questions.

1. Is that adjusted for inflation or not adjusted for inflation?

2. Do you have a cite for these statistics.

As we are talking about a median number, such a drop is fairly dramatic - even if it is adjusted for inflation (and far worse if it is not).

Walter, I fear you may be one of the few remaining members of an endangered  species - the fiscal conservative.   Hang in there - I believe that America will eventually regain it's senses and moral rudder.

http://www.aflcio.com/issues/factsstats/factsstats.cfm

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Why does anyone still get emo about abortion?

[Lincoln Republican]

Walter, don't be so hard on Mitt. 

He was the best Guv you ever had.

After 6 years of Deval you'll wish you had Mitt back.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Take it from someone who worked for Mitt at one point: Weld and Cellucci were far better Governors than Mitt was.  They knew how to compromise with the legislature to get stuff done.

Mitt just fought with the legislature and spend his time in Washington D.C., crusading for a gay marriage amendment.

[SPC]

Clearly our health care system needs to be fixed, but more government action isn't the solution. Before you try to defend your argument with red herrings, non sequiturs, and ad hominem attacks, listen to my argument:

There are a few main reasons why our health care system is broken:

1) We don't have tort reform. Because patients have the advantage of being able to sue for virtually anything with no economic loss to them, doctors must go through every unnecesary procedure to make sure the 0.00001% chance that they screw up doesn't happen. These procedures add to your medical bills every time you visit.

2) Patents. Because drug companies are able to reapply for patents with ease, our drug costs rise. This is of course bad for the patient, but if the unfair monopoly benefits the drug companies, who cares, right?

3) Government intervention. Because of government's Medicare and Medicaid programs, patients don't have to pay as much for a check-up. This leads to more people getting check-ups when it isn't of dire importance, meaning that he people who actually need to go to the doctor have to wait in line behind these people.

[Smash255]

Clearly our health care system needs to be fixed, but more government action isn't the solution. Before you try to defend your argument with red herrings, non sequiturs, and ad hominem attacks, listen to my argument:

There are a few main reasons why our health care system is broken:

1) We don't have tort reform. Because patients have the advantage of being able to sue for virtually anything with no economic loss to them, doctors must go through every unnecesary procedure to make sure the 0.00001% chance that they screw up doesn't happen. These procedures add to your medical bills every time you visit.

2) Patents. Because drug companies are able to reapply for patents with ease, our drug costs rise. This is of course bad for the patient, but if the unfair monopoly benefits the drug companies, who cares, right?

3) Government intervention. Because of government's Medicare and Medicaid programs, patients don't have to pay as much for a check-up. This leads to more people getting check-ups when it isn't of dire importance, meaning that he people who actually need to go to the doctor have to wait in line behind these people.

1.  According to a 2004 Congressional budget Office Report malpractice costs make up 2% of total healthcare costs, and a reducting of 50% would reduce the cost by 0.5%


2.  Without Medicare and Medicaid the system would be in even worse shape, granted Bush's little escapade didn't help matters.  Where government intervention has hurt is making importing drugs from Canada illegal and making the negotiating of prices illegal.

3.  The way the system is set up being a for profit industry is the biggest problems.  Decisions on not based on how it can benefit the most people, they are made on how it can help the corporate fat cat.  Its profit and profit only, and they will squeeze out ever penny possible to get there.  if maximize profit means more people with no insurance, not being able to afford it, less coverage, et so be it, they make more profit.  That is what is wrong with our health care system.

[Speed of Sound]

Ummm....why do you think all of these bad things are happening, Walter? Everytime a gay guy gets it on, God drops the median US household income.

[opebo]

What the hell does the 'health care crisis' have to do with the drop in median income?  True, both are terribly damaging to the working class, and both are caused by de-unionization and lack of State redistribution or Keyensian policies generally, but the health care crisis does not itself cause the drop in the median income.

[WalterMitty]

What the hell does the 'health care crisis' have to do with the drop in median income?  True, both are terribly damaging to the working class, and both are caused by de-unionization and lack of State redistribution or Keyensian policies generally, but the health care crisis does not itself cause the drop in the median income.

uhhh opebo, dont act silly.

the more an employer has to pay in health benefits, less money is available for wages.

you know as well as anyone, that the number one concern of a corporation is to show a profit to its shareholders.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

What the hell does the 'health care crisis' have to do with the drop in median income?

The "health care crisis" has contributed significantly to the complete collapse of the U.S. automotive manufacturing industry.  They are continuously slashing jobs and closing plants because they're constantly fighting a losing battle against healthcare costs.

Well...that, and really sh**tty car models.

[Sam Spade]

http://www.aflcio.com/issues/factsstats/factsstats.cfm

There is a certain amount of irony in this post.

[Sam Spade]

To actually post some relevant thoughts on this thread, I think it is important to point out that 2000 is not a good data point with which to begin the analysis, since it is right before a recession.

The Census Bureau provided a nice graph in 2005 of Median household income since 1965 (the middle of a long boom period) that provides a better look at today's numbers in the larger scale which has been reprinted on Wikipedia.

[Conan]

Why don't we have an independent post this or a someone from a party who didn't create the situation or cares about it. Then we can see some credibility of how a person actually cares about the subject.

Perhaps if you saw people as people instead of as party labels, you would recognize that WalterMitty is not exactly your average Republican.

It doesn't matter if you can't take the person seriously. It's like a slave owner trying to be an abolitionist. My other comparison was a little to controversial.

[??????????]

http://www.aflcio.com/issues/factsstats/factsstats.cfm

There is a certain amount of irony in this post.

Haha

[opebo]

What the hell does the 'health care crisis' have to do with the drop in median income?  True, both are terribly damaging to the working class, and both are caused by de-unionization and lack of State redistribution or Keyensian policies generally, but the health care crisis does not itself cause the drop in the median income.

uhhh opebo, dont act silly.

the more an employer has to pay in health benefits, less money is available for wages.

you know as well as anyone, that the number one concern of a corporation is to show a profit to its shareholders.

Pshaw, Mitty.  All they have to do is stop paying health benefits - problem solved.  What's to stop them once the union is gone?

What the hell does the 'health care crisis' have to do with the drop in median income?

The "health care crisis" has contributed significantly to the complete collapse of the U.S. automotive manufacturing industry.  They are continuously slashing jobs and closing plants because they're constantly fighting a losing battle against healthcare costs.

Well...that, and really sh**tty car models.

No, you're wrong.  The 'complete collapse' of the industry you mention was caused by right-wing political actions.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

The "health care crisis" has contributed significantly to the complete collapse of the U.S. automotive manufacturing industry.  They are continuously slashing jobs and closing plants because they're constantly fighting a losing battle against healthcare costs.

Well...that, and really sh**tty car models.

No, you're wrong.  The 'complete collapse' of the industry you mention was caused by right-wing political actions.
[/quote]

Zuh?  Overseas car manufacturers do not have the same burden for covering health care costs of current and past employees, which gives them a massive competitive advantage.

I know you want to be partisan and rah-rah-Democrat-boom-bah, but, seriously, come on.

[Conan]

The "health care crisis" has contributed significantly to the complete collapse of the U.S. automotive manufacturing industry.  They are continuously slashing jobs and closing plants because they're constantly fighting a losing battle against healthcare costs.

Well...that, and really sh**tty car models.

No, you're wrong.  The 'complete collapse' of the industry you mention was caused by right-wing political actions.

Zuh?  Overseas car manufacturers do not have the same burden for covering health care costs of current and past employees, which gives them a massive competitive advantage.

I know you want to be partisan and rah-rah-Democrat-boom-bah, but, seriously, come on.
[/quote]
It is because of all the benefits they give out. Healthcare is one of them. However, I'd have to disagree with you about the cars. Over the past two years, they started from making their cars bland and then everyone was like you're not selling because these cars have no style. So then they made some really great looking and performing cars, but it turns out people just don't want those either.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I'm certainly still more worried about what would happen if gay marriage was legalized then if you had health care.  But I am more worried about UHC being reality than gay marriage