Rashida Tlaib goes after Biden again: "We aren't going to forget in November are we?"

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

I'm not entirely sure how anyone expected her to react differently, frankly.

Biden and the Democrats misunderstand her base. They (wrongly) believe Joe Biden is complicit in genocide. The problem with that is you can't "lesser evil" it away like most policy issues. People aren't going to vote for the person who would commit genocide even if its less than their opponent, and most would rather vote 3rd party or stay home at all. Instead of trying to paint Trump as worse on the issue, the Biden campaign needs to assure these voters that they aren't or doing anything remotely close to genocide. 

Basically this. The only thing acceptable would likely be a public repudiation of current Israeli policy in Gaza coupled with some kind of "consequence", which frankly, wouldn't be that much of a stretch at this point.

[Landslide Lyndon]

What's your point?

I think it's obvious to anyone but the most oblivious.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Can you also point to where she "openly endorsed Hamas?" I think that would have been bigger news had it occurred.

Refusing to condemn Hamas's crimes is pretty much the definition of support. Not even Omar went there.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

She is palestinian-american. What do you expect, that she'll endorse the mass killings on her own people.

Tlaib is the only elected person on a national level in the USA at this point with a heart, and she has my full support!

Are you really in Belgium like your avatar?

You are a moderator. You can trace my IP address.

I’m not accusing you of being dishonest and I leave the IP address tracing to other moderators. I was asking in case you were an American voter who uses a Belgium avatar because of some affinity with the country instead of a Belgian because you were sharing which U.S. elected officials you support.

I never have been in the USA. I've never been in an english-speaking country for over 24 hours. Only  a one day trip to London.

And yes i'm in Belgium. And yes Tlaib is one of my idols or one of the elected officials in the U.S. i respect a lot (even if i cannot vote or influence for her, i'm still allowed to "idolize" her).

The U.S. is the country i follow the most "closely" at this point next to Belgium, since it's hard to ignore and it has an election system that is more interesting to follow from an outsider perspective compared to several other bigger nations. And it's also hard to ignore, since even here it's all what the media talks about sometimes. You definitely have a lot more coverage here compared to other country's politics, even more than France and Netherlands.

And it helps that i'm proficient in the english language too, and that I have my own strong political opinions / interest in politics.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

She is for DSA, not for the DNC....

I´m  surprised why AIPAC hasn´t recruited and funded any black democrat to primary her.

Supporting genocide of Palestinians isn't a winning issue in the Democratic primary.

Even AIPAC knows that.

The ads that AIPAC runs aren't about Israel.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/17/aipac-campaign-ads-israel-00158567

AIPAC support pro Israel candidates. These candidates usually also have other strenghs and their opposition usually also have other weakneses.

Well, House members are supposed to representate their district, be the voice of them and
their interest to the country.
Tlaib kind of does that by representive Dearborn interests, but there are more areas in the district. Inkster, west Detroit, Southfield, etc. Her district is 45% black accoding to DRA.
Now, Tlaib's stances on domestic issues appealing to a good part of the black and white democrat electorate there. That´s her main appeal. The way to confront her on that would be running someonw with "experience getting democrat goals done".
Kinniebrew isn´t a bad fit like Dolan, but he isn´t a strong candidate. He can´t run on any record agaisnt Tlaib. I can see him trying to make himself better know for 2026, and get some ties for the next primary...

If across the country, Democrats get to choose between two otherwise identical candidates, but one supports genocide of the Palestinians and the latter opposes genocide of the Palestinians, the former would be blown completely out of the water.

Yeah, but this is a moot point since no one is committing genocide against the Palestinians.  This is simply an objective fact.  Words have meaning.  If you want to argue some individuals on the Israeli side have committed war crimes (and I would argue this is the case), there’s definitely room for discussion there.  And I’ve long argued Israel has been (and is continuing to) commit crimes against humanity in the West Bank.  However, genocide is a clearly defined term for good reason and there simply is no reasonable argument that Israel’s actions in Gaza are a genocide. 

That is the lowest of low bars to clear.  It doesn’t mean Israel didn’t commit war crimes or even crimes against humanity.  It simply means they aren’t committing genocide there, no more and no less.  If the ICJ claims that they are committing genocide, then that will be an act of anti-Israel virtue signaling for propaganda purposes by the ICJ and one with no true basis in reality.  Like, the ICJ tried to add teeth to its attack on Israeli sovereignty when it ordered them to withdraw from Rafah by invoking genocide definition language while describing conditions there in their demand.  So instead of talking in a reality-based way about the situation in Rafah and forcing the “Israel has never done anything wrong” crowd to address the horrible conditions there, the ICJ made it easy to hand waive away as not worth taking seriously due to the ridiculously inaccurate and dishonest use of genocide language.

To be clear, Israel should withdraw from Rafah immediately and unconditionally (provided it can do so while making clear that it used the ICJ order as toilet paper) and really shouldn’t have gone in until Hamas was cleared out of the rest of Gaza and both Deif and the Sinwar brothers had been dealt with)

I honestly don’t know why folks on the anti-Israel side are so obsessed with the word “genocide.”  It is unambiguously a wildly inaccurate claim and always shifts the debate from the litany of legitimate criticisms one can make of both Israeli conduct during the ongoing Gaza campaign and Israeli treatment of Palestinians in general.  I get that it has become buzzword propaganda, but it perfectly sets up pro-Israel hardliners to avoid an of the actual issues with Israel’s conduct and policies. 

For example, instead of talking about how horrible yesterday’s bombing in Rafah was, a person who was so inclined could easily deflect and opt not to acknowledge the airstrike/footage of the aftermath at all in favor of derailing the conversation by converting it into a debate over whether Israel is committing genocide in Gaza (which it very much is not).  But I digress…

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Warning: I just had to nuke a long quote chain due to some rather ugly Islamophobic bigotry.  I am the last person on atlas who could be accused of being a Tlaib apologist and I share the anger/frustration with both her rabid anti-Semitism and performative nonsense to help Trump.  However, these sentiments can be expressed without resorting to Islamophobic bigotry. I’m not going to have a high tolerance for this sort of thing, so everyone would be advised to step back and take a deep breath.  You’ve been warned.

[AtorBoltox]

The 'genocide' accusation is not simply a good-faith misuse of terminology. It's part of a concerted attempt to trivialize the Holocaust and draw an equivalency between Israel and Nazi Germany. The goal of recasting Israelis as the 'new Nazis' is to win global acquiescence for the destruction of Israel. Who after all would want to defend a country that's 'genocidal'?

[Landslide Lyndon]

The 'genocide' accusation is not simply a good-faith misuse of terminology. It's part of a concerted attempt to trivialize the Holocaust and draw an equivalency between Israel and Nazi Germany. The goal of recasting Israelis as the 'new Nazis' is to win global acquiescence for the destruction of Israel. Who after all would want to defend a country that's 'genocidal'?

Unfortunately I believe that's the case with most people who use the term. Accusing Israel of committing war crimes is equally grievous but apparently it lacks the historic connotations these so-called humanists desire.

[Sir Mohamed]

The 'genocide' accusation is not simply a good-faith misuse of terminology. It's part of a concerted attempt to trivialize the Holocaust and draw an equivalency between Israel and Nazi Germany. The goal of recasting Israelis as the 'new Nazis' is to win global acquiescence for the destruction of Israel. Who after all would want to defend a country that's 'genocidal'?

I think this has been said before, but if indeed that was genocide, Israel would just have destroyed the entire place with pretty much no exception. That's not the case, even though they have the military capabilities to do so. Also ask yourself what would happen if Hamas had the military capabilities (or Iran for that matter).

Of course that's no apology for Israel conducting a number of strikes and operations that are over the top. That's not the academic definition of genocide though. And if it is, the term is pretty much meaningless.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

The 'genocide' accusation is not simply a good-faith misuse of terminology. It's part of a concerted attempt to trivialize the Holocaust and draw an equivalency between Israel and Nazi Germany. The goal of recasting Israelis as the 'new Nazis' is to win global acquiescence for the destruction of Israel. Who after all would want to defend a country that's 'genocidal'?

This is nonsense, while I don't fully agree with the genocide accusation it's clear that the Israel government does want to cleanse the Gaza strip of its Palestinian population and has made it a clear policy goal. Only pressure from the US has prevented such a disaster from going through but it's clear what the Isralei public as well as the government wants to achieve. Apologists like you attempt to obfuscate this reality by smearing anyone critical of Israel and its conduct as a anti-semite and hamas member.

the genocidal accusation stems from the fact that the current Isralei Goverment includes a national security minister who have advocated and taken part in ethnic cleansing and has launched a war in Gaza that comes filled with a long-list of documented war crimes and attempts to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian population. The destruction of Israel is a delusional fever dream that apologists such as yourselves attempt to use to justify the wholesale slaughter the Netanyahu regime has engaged in.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

The 'genocide' accusation is not simply a good-faith misuse of terminology. It's part of a concerted attempt to trivialize the Holocaust and draw an equivalency between Israel and Nazi Germany. The goal of recasting Israelis as the 'new Nazis' is to win global acquiescence for the destruction of Israel. Who after all would want to defend a country that's 'genocidal'?

This is nonsense, while I don't fully agree with the genocide accusation it's clear that the Israel government does want to cleanse the Gaza strip of its Palestinian population and has made it a clear policy goal. Only pressure from the US has prevented such a disaster from going through but it's clear what the Isralei public as well as the government wants to achieve. Apologists like you attempt to obfuscate this reality by smearing anyone critical of Israel and its conduct as a anti-semite and hamas member.

the genocidal accusation stems from the fact that the current Isralei Goverment includes a national security minister who have advocated and taken part in ethnic cleansing and has launched a war in Gaza that comes filled with a long-list of documented war crimes and attempts to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian population. The destruction of Israel is a delusional fever dream that apologists such as yourselves attempt to use to justify the wholesale slaughter the Netanyahu regime has engaged in.

The crux of the disagreement is that to many, ethnic cleansing and war crimes are necessary but not sufficient conditions for a genocide.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

The 'genocide' accusation is not simply a good-faith misuse of terminology. It's part of a concerted attempt to trivialize the Holocaust and draw an equivalency between Israel and Nazi Germany. The goal of recasting Israelis as the 'new Nazis' is to win global acquiescence for the destruction of Israel. Who after all would want to defend a country that's 'genocidal'?

This is nonsense, while I don't fully agree with the genocide accusation it's clear that the Israel government does want to cleanse the Gaza strip of its Palestinian population and has made it a clear policy goal. Only pressure from the US has prevented such a disaster from going through but it's clear what the Isralei public as well as the government wants to achieve. Apologists like you attempt to obfuscate this reality by smearing anyone critical of Israel and its conduct as a anti-semite and hamas member.

the genocidal accusation stems from the fact that the current Isralei Goverment includes a national security minister who have advocated and taken part in ethnic cleansing and has launched a war in Gaza that comes filled with a long-list of documented war crimes and attempts to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian population. The destruction of Israel is a delusional fever dream that apologists such as yourselves attempt to use to justify the wholesale slaughter the Netanyahu regime has engaged in.

The crux of the disagreement is that to many, ethnic cleansing and war crimes are necessary but not sufficient conditions for a genocide.

They are distinct in a legalistic sense which is why I don't fully agree wth the genocide accusations; but the idea that the reason the genocide accusation has become popular among the western left is because how horrific the action by Israeli are and not some sort of deranged plot to destroy the Israel State and lay the groundwork of supporting that plan. Thinking so like AtorBox did is hysterical conspiratorlism.
Let me remind all of you that the current Israeli National Security minister is a man who celebrates palestianian toddlers being burned alive, yet people insist on pretending that's an unremarkable fact nobody should care about.

[DrScholl]

Warning: I just had to nuke a long quote chain due to some rather ugly Islamophobic bigotry.  I am the last person on atlas who could be accused of being a Tlaib apologist and I share the anger/frustration with both her rabid anti-Semitism and performative nonsense to help Trump.  However, these sentiments can be expressed without resorting to Islamophobic bigotry. I’m not going to have a high tolerance for this sort of thing, so everyone would be advised to step back and take a deep breath.  You’ve been warned.

Can you please not misrepresent my point? I never made any reference to Tlaib's religion. My statement was based on her statements and actions. There is a difference.

[Lief 🗽]

The anti-Israel activists were accusing Israel of genocide before 10/7. The very existence of the state of Israel is “genocide” in their eyes. Of course these are the same people that said people who ate in restaurants or called for people to go back to working in offices in 2021 were committing genocide, so they have a tenuous grasp of the word regardless of the topic.

[MyLifeIsYours]

The anti-Israel activists were accusing Israel of genocide before 10/7. The very existence of the state of Israel is “genocide” in their eyes. Of course these are the same people that said people who ate in restaurants or called for people to go back to working in offices in 2021 were committing genocide, so they have a tenuous grasp of the word regardless of the topic.

Strawman that describes very little of thr pro-Palestinian movement barring a random 20 year old on social media.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Warning: I just had to nuke a long quote chain due to some rather ugly Islamophobic bigotry.  I am the last person on atlas who could be accused of being a Tlaib apologist and I share the anger/frustration with both her rabid anti-Semitism and performative nonsense to help Trump.  However, these sentiments can be expressed without resorting to Islamophobic bigotry. I’m not going to have a high tolerance for this sort of thing, so everyone would be advised to step back and take a deep breath.  You’ve been warned.

Can you please not misrepresent my point? I never made any reference to Tlaib's religion. My statement was based on her statements and actions. There is a difference.

You’re right, you didn’t mention her religion explicitly.  You just called her “a suicide bomber waiting to happen”

[Ancestral Republican]

The anti-Israel activists were accusing Israel of genocide before 10/7. The very existence of the state of Israel is “genocide” in their eyes. Of course these are the same people that said people who ate in restaurants or called for people to go back to working in offices in 2021 were committing genocide, so they have a tenuous grasp of the word regardless of the topic.

Strawman that describes very little of thr pro-Palestinian movement barring a random 20 year old on social media.

That sounded really good in Lief's head before he typed it out, lol.

[lfromnj]

Warning: I just had to nuke a long quote chain due to some rather ugly Islamophobic bigotry.  I am the last person on atlas who could be accused of being a Tlaib apologist and I share the anger/frustration with both her rabid anti-Semitism and performative nonsense to help Trump.  However, these sentiments can be expressed without resorting to Islamophobic bigotry. I’m not going to have a high tolerance for this sort of thing, so everyone would be advised to step back and take a deep breath.  You’ve been warned.

Can you please not misrepresent my point? I never made any reference to Tlaib's religion. My statement was based on her statements and actions. There is a difference.

You’re right, you didn’t mention her religion explicitly.  You just called her “a suicide bomber waiting to happen”

Technically speaking, didn't the secular commies she spoke with also do suicide bombings?

[Frodo]

Neither will we if Trump wins thanks to scum like her... 

[lfromnj]

The anti-Israel activists were accusing Israel of genocide before 10/7. The very existence of the state of Israel is “genocide” in their eyes. Of course these are the same people that said people who ate in restaurants or called for people to go back to working in offices in 2021 were committing genocide, so they have a tenuous grasp of the word regardless of the topic.

Strawman that describes very little of thr pro-Palestinian movement barring a random 20 year old on social media.

Then why are there so many student protesters still wearing N95 masks?

[Ancestral Republican]

The anti-Israel activists were accusing Israel of genocide before 10/7. The very existence of the state of Israel is “genocide” in their eyes. Of course these are the same people that said people who ate in restaurants or called for people to go back to working in offices in 2021 were committing genocide, so they have a tenuous grasp of the word regardless of the topic.

Strawman that describes very little of thr pro-Palestinian movement barring a random 20 year old on social media.

Then why are there so many student protesters still wearing N95 masks?

Lfromnj-tier argument tbh.

[DK_Mo82]

What's the American equivalent of withdrawing the whip? Is there one? It's been well over a decade since I've bothered with Congressional procedure, so I've forgotten a lot of the little technicalities. In most countries there would be no need to ask, but Americans are so odd about anything to do with parties and groups.

It’s simply not available as congressional nominees are determined by primaries .

That's a candidate selection issue which is different. I meant expelling or suspending from the caucus, as this would definitely cross the threshold for that literally anywhere else.

Prob stripping of all congressional comittee assignments, is what you are looking for, it is very rare, it happened to Santos, and Traficant way back when; even if they kick out of the caucus, member is still listen Democrat by the Congress clerk unless representative herself asks to be redesignated

[DK_Mo82]

Anyway, USA is weak party system, such that Tlaib has no necesity of loyalty to Biden like a Liberal would have for Trudeau in Canada, or for Starmer or Sunakk in UK.  Heck we can even mention Phil Scott here, VT Governor, outright endorsed Biden in 2020 albeit on election day itself.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

I don't agree with her, but she's within her rights to say it and I understand the sentiment.

Decades of choosing the 'lesser evil' is growing wearisome on people.

In a better, more politically aware society this might result in a greater emphasis on local politics and organizations - since checking out is certainly not an option.

Sadly, I know that's what a lot of people will do.

[Beet]

She's literally Palestinian-American. I don't necessarily endorse all her views, but I'm not sure what people want from her. "Yes, I'm going to endorse a guy who is committing genocide of my ancestral people?" If Biden came to your house and killed your family members, and then asked you for your vote, would you look at that as anything but literal insanity? Biden had the power to end this whole situation a long time ago, Tlaib never has it for one day. Go ahead, strip her of her committees, the power that her constituents who elected her gave her. Atlas has lost its sense over this issue. Goodness gracious.