The Elections of 2024: You Decide - South African Legislative

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

After a bit of a break due to finals, then being on a short vacation and some other personal things, we're back. I'll be skipping over Lithuania's presidential election since it already has happened but we'll pick up after that.

So, that brings us to South Africa! This'll be interesting for how far off this will likely be from the real results.

System: 400 seats, 200 of which are split between the provinces with regional lists, including independents, and the seats being awarded proportionally. The other 200 are elected in a national proportional list, which are used to level out any disproportional distribution from the regional seats. As this system ends up leveling the seats out to be proportional nationwide, we'll just use one ballot here.

Parties of note (hold seats, are polling above 1%, or have been given attention from media):

African National Congress (ANC): The illegal face of resistance to Apartheid, and the governing party since the end of the Apartheid regime, the ANC is nominally center-left and social democratic, but is seemingly more nebulous as time has gone on. Foreign policy wise, they are more aligned with China and Russia, with the ANC youth wing condemning sanctions against Russia in the wake of the Ukraine invasion and the party itself maintaining neutrality on the Ukraine conflict, while heavily pursuing the South Africa v Israel ICJ case. The ANC has been very heavily criticized for corruption among its members, including at least 4 ministers and 14 officials who were disqualified from the election due to corruption charges. Their base remains very rural and black.
Democratic Alliance (DA): The descendants of the Progressive Party, the main parliamentary opposition to Apartheid in the 70's and 80s, and the main opposition since 1999. The DA is broadly centrist and liberal, though with a varied set of policies including a basic income grant, high social spending, labor deregulation, and opposition to a minimum wage. Internationally they're much more pro-West, vocally backing Ukraine, calling for Putin's arrest, opposing the ICJ case brought against Israel, and calling for a 2-state solution. They're the most vocal critics of alleged corruption in the ANC, calling for 15-year jail sentences for corruption. They're the main party of the anti-ANC, anti-EFF, anti-MK Multi-Party Charter. Their support base is generally more urban and white.
Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF): Founded by the former ANC Youth League President Julius Malema in 2013, the EFF is a hard-left split from the ANC, being vocally communist and black nationalist, supporting expropriation of farmland from white owners without compensation and blaming large companies for poverty. Foreign policy wise they're strong pan-Africanist and anti-west, with Malema previously calling for the overthrow of Botswana's government and opposing foreign bases in Africa, while praising Russia, China, Hamas, and Gaddafi. Although criticizing ANC for corruption, the EFF isn't clean either, with reports showing that hundreds of thousands to millions of SA Rands were funneled from VBS Bank into the EFF and to Malema himself. Malema has said the bank's collapse was a plot to sabotage the EFF. The EFF has been accused of anti-White and anti-Indian racism, and their base is almost entirely black.
Inkatha Freedom Party (IFP): A Zulu-centric conservative party, the IFP is part of the Multi-Party Charter, and supports devolution of power to regional governments, liberal trade policy, relaxed labor laws, and tribal values. Though they do run outside of KwaZulu-Natal, their voters are almost exclusively from the province.
Freedom Front Plus (VF+): Descendants of the pro-Apartheid Conservatives, VF+ has moderated since then and has become a right-wing populist, Afrikaner and Afrikaans-speaker interest party. They support Cape independence, are against affirmative action, and are part of the Multi-Party Charter. For foreign policy, they support a 2 state solution in Israel and Palestine, and called for the ANC to condemn the invasion of Ukraine. As one would expect, their support comes mostly from Afrikaners, though they also have a decent sized contingent of coloured Afrikaans-speaking support.
African Christian Democratic Party (ACDP): As one would expect, the ACDP is a Christian Right party, supporting "biblical principles", including opposition to abortion, LGBT+ rights, "gender ideology", contraception, and pornography. Foreign policy wise they're pro-Israel. Their support is scattered nationwide.
United Democratic Movement (UDM): Founded by the odd coupling of former National Party minister Roelf Meyer (who since has left to join the ANC) and former ANC member and Transkei military coup leader Bantu Holomisa, UDM is vaguely center-left and social democratic, although the language used in their policy proposals sounds more vague and centrist. They have a special emphasis on diversity and individuality, and anti-separatism. They've been in constant decline since founding, and have dropped to only 2 seats in the current legislature.
African Transformation Movement (ATM): A small conservative party, which supports the death penalty, opposes mandatory vaccination, and wants to raise the bar for passing marks in schools. Their "website" linked on their facebook page just goes to an online gambling website, not sure what's up with that.
GOOD: A split from the DA led by former Cape Town mayor Patricia de Lille due to "abusive behavior" from the DA, GOOD is similar to DA policy wise, though perhaps slightly more left leaning, supporting a UBI, devolution of national functions to regional government to save costs and try to cut corruption, and housing construction. Foreign policy wise they call for ceasefires in Ukraine and Palestine, while condemning Hamas and the "inconsistent and dual-morality values shown by western Democracies in Ukraine as opposed to Palestine". Their support mostly comes from the Coloured community in the Western Cape.
National Freedom Party (NFP): A supposedly more left-leaning split from the IFP, looking at their campaign posts on Twitter, they seem single-mindedly focused on "service delivery" this election, which is in response to ballooning electricity costs and limited water supplies, which have been criticized due to the influence of corruption in both.
African Independent Congress (AIC): Founded as a protest against the borders of the states of Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal, the AIC is vaguely center-right but I can't find any actual policy positions. Many of their votes come from confusion due to their placement and name similarity to the ANC. Despite having only R83 (Equivalent to about $4.50) left in the party bank account after a messy legal battle over leadership in late 2018, the party still got 2 seats in 2019.
Congress of the People (COPE): Founded as a split after Jacob Zuma's ascension to be leader of the ANC, COPE started strong, getting 7.5% of the vote and 30 seats in 2009, but factionalism and leadership disputes in 2013 and 2023 (the latter of which has left half the party leadership vacant after resignations, including the party spokesperson) have decimated the party, bringing them down to just 2 seats now. COPE is generally center-left and anti-corruption, and has a surprisingly detailed manifesto, including rural health care expansion, revising eviction laws, and a proposal to build skills training centers in every poor ward in every town and city, teaching things such as plumbing, welding, baking, and carpentry among others. For Israel-Palestine, they support Mexico's 2-state solution that emphasizes cooperation and power-sharing, while decrying war crimes on both sides.
Pan Africanist Congress of Azania (PAC): Founded in 1959 in opposition to the ANC's premise of multiracialism, the PAC is far more black nationalist, though historically has rejected Marxism and communism, unlike parties such as the EFF. Despite this they still talk a bit about class struggle, but in the end it's hard to really figure out what they stand for looking at their half-broken website. Infighting has plagued the party for years as it's hemorrhaged support, eventually falling to a single seat in 2019 and quite possibly the party will fall out of the Assembly in this election.
The Congregation (Al Jama-ah): A muslim interest party, Al Jama-ah is culturally right-wing, opposing corruption and Zionism as expected, and fiscally left-wing, supporting universal healthcare and anti-racialism. They have a singular MP and currently hold the office of mayor in Johannesburg, though that is due to a series of odd circumstances, where the mayor's office has changed hands 7 times in just 2 years.
Spear of the Nation (MK): Named after the former paramilitary wing of the ANC, MK is a split led by Jacob Zuma that's more populist, Zulu-centric, left-wing economically, and right-wing socially. Plagued by infighting and mostly a one-man operation centered around Zuma at this point, MK has attracted some unsavory supporters as well, including the "too radical even for EFF" Andile Mngxitama, leader of Black First Land First, an unapologetically anti-white racist party.. Zuma has since been disqualified by the Constitutional Court from serving as an MP due to a 15 month prison sentence for contempt of court. Zuma has also been accused numerous times of corruption. The party base is almost entirely in KwaZulu-Natal.
ActionSA: A split from the DA, ActionSA claims to be a non-racial, classical liberal party, though they have been extremely vocal in opposition to immigration, leading to allegations of really being a right-wing populist outfit and even being called "EFF-lite in disguise" by DA members. They're a member of the Multi-Party Charter.
RISE Mzansi (RISE): A new party founded by Songezo Zibi, a former newspaper editor, RISE is described by Zibi as "a typical European centrist party.", while others consider it to be more social democratic with neoliberal rhetoric. Their campaign is focused on professionalizing the workforce and fighting corruption, promoting green energy, fighting organized crime, and investment in small business.
Patriotic Alliance (PA): A self proclaimed right wing party, the PA wants life sentences for corruption, random integrity testing for all public servants, deporting "illegal foreigners", a return to the death penalty, a modification to the Broad Based Black Economic Empowerment program to favor all disadvantaged peoples, not just black, and to take large stakes in key industries and pay dividends from these to all citizens in a system similar to Norway's oil industry. Their growing support base is mostly coloured, and they've run into controversy due to many of their founding supporters having ties to organized crime gangs such as the 26ers prison gang.


3 days, as usual.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

ANC by process of elimination

[Dr. MB]

Only one choice

https://twitter.com/osakuphd/status/1792974559441723677?s=46

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

South African elections are like if you're given a choice to eat of a bunch of toxic foods that'll make you varying degrees of sick or a bowl of bland unsweetened oatmeal. Purely by default I'll take the oatmeal: Democratic Alliance.

Although GOOD sounds alright I suppose. COPE sound OK ideologically but the party has been an absolute trainwreck since founding.

[S019]

DA

[Frodo]

Of the major parties with a realistic chance of exercising power after this election: the Democratic Alliance.  Not perfect by any means, but compared with the alternatives...  

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

Considering that I apparently agree with RISE more than any other party I voted for them

Rise Mzansi
7
African National Congress
6
African Transformation Movement
6
Patriotic Alliance
6
Economic Freedom Fighters
4
Inkatha Freedom Party
4
Umkhonto we Sizwe
4
Action SA
3
Freedom Front Plus
3
Democratic Alliance
2


Mzansi first isn't particularly surprising, though DA being so far down is, though admittedly some of my answers might be a bit ignorant of the situation.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Considering that I apparently agree with RISE more than any other party I voted for them

When writing an introduction for every party, it seems pretty obvious which parties you support and which ones you do not. It seems very biased and not really objectively written, in particular what issues you highlight.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

When reading about the parties, there really is not a single good party. All are awful.

Out of the top four, DA is the worst for me personally due to their support for genocide.

Therefore

If i were Afrikaner: VF+ (because support for independence and ceasefire)
If i were black: Lean ANC. (because of ICJ case)
If i were muslim: Al Jama-ah (because of support for Gaza)

ANC probably is the most stable party and the party i would vote for, with the context i have right now, since EFF is a bit too extreme, even for me. But it's likely if South Africa didn't start the ICJ case that i would've gone for EFF anyways. It's def not the "left-wing" i stand for, but it's not like there's much of an alternative or that ANC is better.

Personally, i don't think South Africa in its current form can exist and should evolve towards dissolution and the formation of several independent states, a Zulu state, a Cape State, Afrikaner/Boer states and a Xhosa state.

Voted for VF+ since well i'm more closely related to Afrikaner than anything else, and they deserve to be independent, not because of blacks but more because of the Anglicanized character of South Africa, as well as protecting the Afrikaners language.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

Considering that I apparently agree with RISE more than any other party I voted for them

When writing an introduction for every party, it seems pretty obvious which parties you support and which ones you do not. It seems very biased and not really objectively written, in particular what issues you highlight.

It’s hard to remove bias, I’m aware. I try to stick to the Wikipedia pages or anything on the party websites that jumps out to me.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Considering that I apparently agree with RISE more than any other party I voted for them

When writing an introduction for every party, it seems pretty obvious which parties you support and which ones you do not. It seems very biased and not really objectively written, in particular what issues you highlight.

It’s hard to remove bias, I’m aware. I try to stick to the Wikipedia pages or anything on the party websites that jumps out to me.

Ok, i understand.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

Considering that I apparently agree with RISE more than any other party I voted for them

When writing an introduction for every party, it seems pretty obvious which parties you support and which ones you do not. It seems very biased and not really objectively written, in particular what issues you highlight.

It’s hard to remove bias, I’m aware. I try to stick to the Wikipedia pages or anything on the party websites that jumps out to me.

Ok, i understand.

All good, I do try to remove my own bias if possible but it does seep through a bit with the issues I highlight.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

When reading about the parties, there really is not a single good party. All are awful.

Out of the top four, DA is the worst for me personally due to their support for genocide.

Therefore

If i were Afrikaner: VF+ (because support for independence and ceasefire)
If i were black: Lean ANC. (because of ICJ case)
If i were muslim: Al Jama-ah (because of support for Gaza)

ANC probably is the most stable party and the party i would vote for, with the context i have right now, since EFF is a bit too extreme, even for me. But it's likely if South Africa didn't start the ICJ case that i would've gone for EFF anyways. It's def not the "left-wing" i stand for, but it's not like there's much of an alternative or that ANC is better.

Personally, i don't think South Africa in its current form can exist and should evolve towards dissolution and the formation of several independent states, a Zulu state, a Cape State, Afrikaner/Boer states and a Xhosa state.

Voted for VF+ since well i'm more closely related to Afrikaner than anything else, and they deserve to be independent, not because of blacks but more because of the Anglicanized character of South Africa, as well as protecting the Afrikaners language.

EFF is “a bit too extreme even for me”, but you’re also inclined towards VF+. Is horseshoe theory finally real?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Ugh, DA I guess.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

When reading about the parties, there really is not a single good party. All are awful.

Out of the top four, DA is the worst for me personally due to their support for genocide.

Therefore

If i were Afrikaner: VF+ (because support for independence and ceasefire)
If i were black: Lean ANC. (because of ICJ case)
If i were muslim: Al Jama-ah (because of support for Gaza)

ANC probably is the most stable party and the party i would vote for, with the context i have right now, since EFF is a bit too extreme, even for me. But it's likely if South Africa didn't start the ICJ case that i would've gone for EFF anyways. It's def not the "left-wing" i stand for, but it's not like there's much of an alternative or that ANC is better.

Personally, i don't think South Africa in its current form can exist and should evolve towards dissolution and the formation of several independent states, a Zulu state, a Cape State, Afrikaner/Boer states and a Xhosa state.

Voted for VF+ since well i'm more closely related to Afrikaner than anything else, and they deserve to be independent, not because of blacks but more because of the Anglicanized character of South Africa, as well as protecting the Afrikaners language.

EFF is “a bit too extreme even for me”, but you’re also inclined towards VF+. Is horseshoe theory finally real?

Stupid reply really. Don't even think VF+ is far-right. The only reason i would be supportive of them is because I would agree with Afrikaner nationalism and right of an independent state and because they have a better stance on israel-gaza than DA. I really though would be a left-wing Afrikaner nationalist, not a right wing. But they do not really belong within South Africa, which already is a state that will sooner or later fracture anyways. And I do believe they have a right of self-determination (and so do the other ethnicities within South Africa like the Xhosa and Zulu people). But i would not expect an Anglocentric person to truly understand... since well South Africa is part of the Anglophone cultural influence sphere.

Everyone who doesn't vote DA would be called an extremist anyways... so why do I even bother. The majority of this forum thinks there is only one right ideology. Everyone else is an extremist. If you truly believe that than go ahead. Horseshoe theory basically applies to everyone who doesn't vote DA here.

If you support genocide though you're also an extremist.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

When reading about the parties, there really is not a single good party. All are awful.

Out of the top four, DA is the worst for me personally due to their support for genocide.

Therefore

If i were Afrikaner: VF+ (because support for independence and ceasefire)
If i were black: Lean ANC. (because of ICJ case)
If i were muslim: Al Jama-ah (because of support for Gaza)

ANC probably is the most stable party and the party i would vote for, with the context i have right now, since EFF is a bit too extreme, even for me. But it's likely if South Africa didn't start the ICJ case that i would've gone for EFF anyways. It's def not the "left-wing" i stand for, but it's not like there's much of an alternative or that ANC is better.

Personally, i don't think South Africa in its current form can exist and should evolve towards dissolution and the formation of several independent states, a Zulu state, a Cape State, Afrikaner/Boer states and a Xhosa state.

Voted for VF+ since well i'm more closely related to Afrikaner than anything else, and they deserve to be independent, not because of blacks but more because of the Anglicanized character of South Africa, as well as protecting the Afrikaners language.

EFF is “a bit too extreme even for me”, but you’re also inclined towards VF+. Is horseshoe theory finally real?

Stupid reply really. Don't even think VF+ is far-right. The only reason i would be supportive of them is because I would agree with Afrikaner nationalism and right of an independent state and because they have a better stance on israel-gaza than DA. I really though would be a left-wing Afrikaner nationalist, not a right wing. But they do not really belong within South Africa, which already is a state that will sooner or later fracture anyways. And I do believe they have a right of self-determination. But i would not expect an Anglocentric person to truly understand... since well South Africa is part of the Anglophone cultural influence sphere.

Everyone who doesn't vote DA would be called an extremist anyways... so why do I even bother. The majority of this forum thinks there is only one right ideology. Everyone else is an extremist.

if you truly believe that than go ahead.

I don’t think supporting a white ethnostate in South Africa is very congruent with leftist politics, to put it mildly. I’m sorry for being too Anglocentric to support the noble Afrikaner people in their quest for liberation.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

When reading about the parties, there really is not a single good party. All are awful.

Out of the top four, DA is the worst for me personally due to their support for genocide.

Therefore

If i were Afrikaner: VF+ (because support for independence and ceasefire)
If i were black: Lean ANC. (because of ICJ case)
If i were muslim: Al Jama-ah (because of support for Gaza)

ANC probably is the most stable party and the party i would vote for, with the context i have right now, since EFF is a bit too extreme, even for me. But it's likely if South Africa didn't start the ICJ case that i would've gone for EFF anyways. It's def not the "left-wing" i stand for, but it's not like there's much of an alternative or that ANC is better.

Personally, i don't think South Africa in its current form can exist and should evolve towards dissolution and the formation of several independent states, a Zulu state, a Cape State, Afrikaner/Boer states and a Xhosa state.

Voted for VF+ since well i'm more closely related to Afrikaner than anything else, and they deserve to be independent, not because of blacks but more because of the Anglicanized character of South Africa, as well as protecting the Afrikaners language.

EFF is “a bit too extreme even for me”, but you’re also inclined towards VF+. Is horseshoe theory finally real?

Stupid reply really. Don't even think VF+ is far-right. The only reason i would be supportive of them is because I would agree with Afrikaner nationalism and right of an independent state and because they have a better stance on israel-gaza than DA. I really though would be a left-wing Afrikaner nationalist, not a right wing. But they do not really belong within South Africa, which already is a state that will sooner or later fracture anyways. And I do believe they have a right of self-determination. But i would not expect an Anglocentric person to truly understand... since well South Africa is part of the Anglophone cultural influence sphere.

Everyone who doesn't vote DA would be called an extremist anyways... so why do I even bother. The majority of this forum thinks there is only one right ideology. Everyone else is an extremist.

if you truly believe that than go ahead.

I don’t think supporting a white ethnostate in South Africa is very congruent with leftist politics, to put it mildly. I’m sorry for being too Anglocentric to support the noble Afrikaner people in their quest for liberation.

I said I support an Afrikaner state. I did not say I support a white ethnostate. Very important distinction.

WB specifically mentioned

As one would expect, their support comes mostly from Afrikaners, though they also have a decent sized contingent of coloured Afrikaans-speaking support.

While I don't think white anglophonic dominant areas should be part of that new state.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

When reading about the parties, there really is not a single good party. All are awful.

Out of the top four, DA is the worst for me personally due to their support for genocide.

Therefore

If i were Afrikaner: VF+ (because support for independence and ceasefire)
If i were black: Lean ANC. (because of ICJ case)
If i were muslim: Al Jama-ah (because of support for Gaza)

ANC probably is the most stable party and the party i would vote for, with the context i have right now, since EFF is a bit too extreme, even for me. But it's likely if South Africa didn't start the ICJ case that i would've gone for EFF anyways. It's def not the "left-wing" i stand for, but it's not like there's much of an alternative or that ANC is better.

Personally, i don't think South Africa in its current form can exist and should evolve towards dissolution and the formation of several independent states, a Zulu state, a Cape State, Afrikaner/Boer states and a Xhosa state.

Voted for VF+ since well i'm more closely related to Afrikaner than anything else, and they deserve to be independent, not because of blacks but more because of the Anglicanized character of South Africa, as well as protecting the Afrikaners language.

EFF is “a bit too extreme even for me”, but you’re also inclined towards VF+. Is horseshoe theory finally real?

Stupid reply really. Don't even think VF+ is far-right. The only reason i would be supportive of them is because I would agree with Afrikaner nationalism and right of an independent state and because they have a better stance on israel-gaza than DA. I really though would be a left-wing Afrikaner nationalist, not a right wing. But they do not really belong within South Africa, which already is a state that will sooner or later fracture anyways. And I do believe they have a right of self-determination. But i would not expect an Anglocentric person to truly understand... since well South Africa is part of the Anglophone cultural influence sphere.

Everyone who doesn't vote DA would be called an extremist anyways... so why do I even bother. The majority of this forum thinks there is only one right ideology. Everyone else is an extremist.

if you truly believe that than go ahead.

I don’t think supporting a white ethnostate in South Africa is very congruent with leftist politics, to put it mildly. I’m sorry for being too Anglocentric to support the noble Afrikaner people in their quest for liberation.

Also, i'm a leftist.

I support Ukraine's right of self-determination and reject the invasion of Ukraine by Russia and consider it a violation of its territorial integrity.

I oppose the Israel's practices of illegal occupation, colonization and their illegal settlements in the West Bank, and believe Palestinians have a right to self determination.

I support the Kurds right to a self determination and would support Kurdish independence. I support Hawaii's right of self-determination. I support Tibetan right of self-determination. Xinjiang, Chechnya,

If the Scottish or Catalonians would decide to vote in favour of secession in a referendum, i would also support that. Since I don't think it's my place to say they shouldn't, but I would respect the decision they make in that referendum.

2 centuries ago, our country was in the same kind of position. We fought for independence, and claiming anyone else doesn't deserve independence would mean neither would we or neither would the USA.

As a leftist, i'm against any kind of oppression, i'm against any kind of occupation, imperialism, colonization, warfare. That's why i'm in favour of the right of self-determination for any ethnicity or group of people that is culturally distinctionable. I do that not because I hate cultures, but because I love most cultures in the world. I believe in international cooperation, international diplomacy, not only on a global scale like the UN but also on a more regional scale like the EU. Some kind of South African Union that would stimulate cooperation between a fractured South Africa would be preferrable i believe (and Namibia + Botswana + Eswatini & Lesotho could be included in such regional alliance/cooperation).

It baffles me that so many leftists are against that, in particular given independence and creation of new states was a big part of decolonization process.

Besides i'm consistent about my ideology

In 1914 Vladimir Lenin wrote: "[It] would be wrong to interpret the right to self-determination as meaning anything but the right to existence as a separate state."

Why would an Afrikaner state be an exception to this rule?

Because they're (overwhelming) white? Because some people say they're racist? (which some of them might very well be, but not all) Because they're not English so people in the Anglophone world look down on them (or blame them for the Apartheid State which white Anglophones also share responsability in)?

I am consistent here. I support a Xhosa and/or a Zulu state as well. Even a Cape state.

[parochial boy]

If you are progressive you don’t vote DA. Even if you are white. South Africa is really no different to anywhere else in the world here, if you believe in ideals like equality you don’t vote for racial resentment and anti poor neoliberalism.

In fact, even if you - entirely fairly - want the ANC out; the DA have demonstrated they have neither the ability nor the desire to extend beyond their 20% niche. So if you want the ANc out, you better how the DA get replaced as principal opposition by someone who actually cares about the votes of the people who make up 80% of the country’s population.

God, vote Rise if you need to. Programmatically they are a bit tedious, but rhetorically they are excellent and god knows SA hasn’t had that in a while.

When reading about the parties, there really is not a single good party. All are awful.

Out of the top four, DA is the worst for me personally due to their support for genocide.

Therefore

If i were Afrikaner: VF+ (because support for independence and ceasefire)
If i were black: Lean ANC. (because of ICJ case)
If i were muslim: Al Jama-ah (because of support for Gaza)

ANC probably is the most stable party and the party i would vote for, with the context i have right now, since EFF is a bit too extreme, even for me. But it's likely if South Africa didn't start the ICJ case that i would've gone for EFF anyways. It's def not the "left-wing" i stand for, but it's not like there's much of an alternative or that ANC is better.

Personally, i don't think South Africa in its current form can exist and should evolve towards dissolution and the formation of several independent states, a Zulu state, a Cape State, Afrikaner/Boer states and a Xhosa state.

Voted for VF+ since well i'm more closely related to Afrikaner than anything else, and they deserve to be independent, not because of blacks but more because of the Anglicanized character of South Africa, as well as protecting the Afrikaners language.

EFF is “a bit too extreme even for me”, but you’re also inclined towards VF+. Is horseshoe theory finally real?

Stupid reply really. Don't even think VF+ is far-right. The only reason i would be supportive of them is because I would agree with Afrikaner nationalism and right of an independent state and because they have a better stance on israel-gaza than DA. I really though would be a left-wing Afrikaner nationalist, not a right wing. But they do not really belong within South Africa, which already is a state that will sooner or later fracture anyways. And I do believe they have a right of self-determination. But i would not expect an Anglocentric person to truly understand... since well South Africa is part of the Anglophone cultural influence sphere.

Everyone who doesn't vote DA would be called an extremist anyways... so why do I even bother. The majority of this forum thinks there is only one right ideology. Everyone else is an extremist.

if you truly believe that than go ahead.

I don’t think supporting a white ethnostate in South Africa is very congruent with leftist politics, to put it mildly. I’m sorry for being too Anglocentric to support the noble Afrikaner people in their quest for liberation.

Also, i'm a leftist.

I support Ukraine's right of self-determination and reject the invasion of Ukraine by Russia and consider it a violation of its territorial integrity.

I oppose the Israel's practices of illegal occupation, colonization and their illegal settlements in the West Bank, and believe Palestinians have a right to self determination.

I support the Kurds right to a self determination and would support Kurdish independence. I support Hawaii's right of self-determination. I support Tibetan right of self-determination. Xinjiang, Chechnya,

If the Scottish or Catalonians would decide to vote in favour of secession in a referendum, i would also support that. Since I don't think it's my place to say they shouldn't, but I would respect the decision they make in that referendum.

2 centuries ago, our country was in the same kind of position. We fought for independence, and claiming anyone else doesn't deserve independence would mean neither would we or neither would the USA.

As a leftist, i'm against any kind of oppression, i'm against any kind of occupation, imperialism, colonization, warfare. That's why i'm in favour of the right of self-determination for any ethnicity or group of people that is culturally distinctionable. I do that not because I hate cultures, but because I love most cultures in the world. I believe in international cooperation, international diplomacy, not only on a global scale like the UN but also on a more regional scale like the EU. Some kind of South African Union that would stimulate cooperation between a fractured South Africa would be preferrable i believe (and Namibia + Botswana + Eswatini & Lesotho could be included in such regional alliance/cooperation).

It baffles me that so many leftists are against that, in particular given independence and creation of new states was a big part of decolonization process.

Besides i'm consistent about my ideology

In 1914 Vladimir Lenin wrote: "[It] would be wrong to interpret the right to self-determination as meaning anything but the right to existence as a separate state."

Why would an Afrikaner state be an exception to this rule?

Because they're (overwhelming) white? Because some people say they're racist? (which some of them might very well be, but not all) Because they're not English so people in the Anglophone world look down on them (or blame them for the Apartheid State which white Anglophones also share responsability in)?

I am consistent here. I support a Xhosa and/or a Zulu state as well. Even a Cape state.

Welll here’s the thing, there is bugger all desire for an Afrikaner (even less a Zulu, even less a Xhosa) state. I know Afrikaners, I even know Afrikaner’s who vote FF+. The don’t want to be from a Boerestaat. They want to be South African.

[Horus]

DA/EFF swing voter.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

This is shaping up to be uh… interesting, lol. As I expected DA is way over performing their likely IRL performance while ANC, EFF, and MK are all flopping compared to IRL (EFF less so)

The big surprise to me so far is the VF+ amount.

[wnwnwn]

Inkatha Freedom Party, but only as an strategic vote to confront the EFF.
In a competitive election, the party that confronts the ANC outside of VF+ and EFF.

[Dr. Cynic]

There really are no good choices in this election. The ANC is hopelessly corrupt. DA is far from the social liberal party its ancestral parties were and is in fact increasingly conservative. The EFF are racist fascists that hate all white people. The FFPlus are racist fascists that hate all black people. Then there are all the social conservative parties who, apart from IFP, are all just sucking on DA's tits. All the little vaguely social liberal/social democratic parties have no chance to win and probably won't increase their seats.

There's nothing good about this election. I suppose I'd just decide on GOOD or UDM or something.

[KaiserDave]

Cope!

[morgieb]

Urgh.

All parties basically suck. I feel like a lot of people think DA are generic cuddly liberals and if that was true they'd comfortably have my vote (if a rather unenthusiastic one), but that's kind of not the case, they're pretty much a standard conservative party at this point. VF+, EFF, ActionSA, IFP, MK and Patriotic Alliance are all out and out awful.

GOOD I suppose doesn't sound too bad but they feel like a busted flush. Same story with COPE.

Honestly as corrupt as they are I'd probably lean towards an (extremely) reluctant ANC vote.