Axios: More than half of Americans think the U.S. is in a recession. It's not.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I don't think Americans know what a recession technically is.

[DaleCooper]

Unit the average American can afford a good single family home, then whatever incumbent is in office deserves to lose.

The party that even makes a little bit of progress towards this will be unbeatable for a generation.

Yup, if Biden can spend all his energy forcing everyone to drive an electric car then he can incentive mass housing projects.

No one will do it because the solution will end up forcing a lot of uncomfortable decisions for both parties. Democrats are never going to do the right thing and end low-income housing, or the fake environmental regulations, or make it easier to evict bad tenants/deadbeats. The GOP also has to grapple with the fact that lower housing costs eat into the "investments" of current home-owners who want to double their money on their house within 5 years. That was a big part of Trump's scam economic success. "Look how much your house has increased in value!"

[EastwoodS]

Unit the average American can afford a good single family home, then whatever incumbent is in office deserves to lose.

The party that even makes a little bit of progress towards this will be unbeatable for a generation.

Yup, if Biden can spend all his energy forcing everyone to drive an electric car then he can incentive mass housing projects.

No one will do it because the solution will end up forcing a lot of uncomfortable decisions for both parties. Democrats are never going to do the right thing and end low-income housing, or the fake environmental regulations, or make it easier to evict bad tenants/deadbeats. The GOP also has to grapple with the fact that lower housing costs eat into the "investments" of current home-owners who want to double their money on their house within 5 years. That was a big part of Trump's scam economic success. "Look how much your house has increased in value!"

I have no problem with homes increasing in value per se; I would be all for it if wages increased with the housing inflation. But if you believe your average house should be 400k while the average income hasn’t risen in decades, then you simply aren’t a good person.

[DaleCooper]

Unit the average American can afford a good single family home, then whatever incumbent is in office deserves to lose.

The party that even makes a little bit of progress towards this will be unbeatable for a generation.

Yup, if Biden can spend all his energy forcing everyone to drive an electric car then he can incentive mass housing projects.

No one will do it because the solution will end up forcing a lot of uncomfortable decisions for both parties. Democrats are never going to do the right thing and end low-income housing, or the fake environmental regulations, or make it easier to evict bad tenants/deadbeats. The GOP also has to grapple with the fact that lower housing costs eat into the "investments" of current home-owners who want to double their money on their house within 5 years. That was a big part of Trump's scam economic success. "Look how much your house has increased in value!"

I have no problem with homes increasing in value per se; I would be all for it if wages increased with the housing inflation. But if you believe your average house should be 400k while the average income hasn’t risen in decades, then you simply aren’t a good person.

Right, and that's the issue. They don't want their house to increase in value along with wages, they want their house to make more than most people do in a single year.

[Ferguson97]

ITT:  red avatars calling voters dumbf[inks]ks and then wondering why their attempts at persuasion don't work lmao

The cognitive dissonance is baffling. Too many people (not just on the left, but on the right as well) are far more interested in being right than actually listening to or caring about voters' experiences.

It's a little difficult to address non-existent problems. What would you say to someone who said they wanted it to stop raining, but there's been a drought for weeks? I'm sincerely asking.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Yeah the Home values are going up and they keep offering Sober livings v rent v Section 8 which again goes back to living a Bachelor's life or a Married life. Just like stimulus checks the ones getting married are benefiting from the Section 8. I know this can be a racial statement but if you are married and have kids or if you Latinx you are gonna get a Section 8 voucher

[Sirius_]

If you claim that this perception is entirely based on reality and not narratives, and those who reject the claims of recession are simply insensitive and living in a bubble, you're going to have to explain how that is consistent with the TSA reporting record levels of air travel during the Biden administration. Because I fail to see how that is possible during a real recession where large numbers of people are actually struggling financially.

[Ferguson97]

Unit the average American can afford a good single family home, then whatever incumbent is in office deserves to lose.

The party that even makes a little bit of progress towards this will be unbeatable for a generation.

No, they'll be out of power for a generation, because the only policies that can actually make housing cheaper are extremely unpopular.

People want a magical solution where they can buy low and sell high.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

ITT:  red avatars calling voters dumbf[inks]ks and then wondering why their attempts at persuasion don't work lmao

The cognitive dissonance is baffling. Too many people (not just on the left, but on the right as well) are far more interested in being right than actually listening to or caring about voters' experiences.

It's a little difficult to address non-existent problems. What would you say to someone who said they wanted it to stop raining, but there's been a drought for weeks? I'm sincerely asking.

Unaffordable housing, food and gas gobbling up disposable income, businesses cutting hours and inventory, "well-paying" jobs being cut (layoffs were up in 2022 from 2023, and look likely to be up again this year)... it doesn't matter if 'recession' is the correct term of art, or if investments are doing great. What matters is voters' lived experience. And lived experience economically is worse for many people under Biden than it was under Trump.

Do I think that's Biden's fault? Not really - the President is orders of magnitude away from controlling the economy the way many people seem to think. But as Truman said, "The buck stops here" (at least for Democrats). Nor do I think Trump would fix it - certainly not in any sustainable way. But Trump voters don't care about the long term, about consequences (Republicans despise consequences the way I despise Republicans), about the damage done and being done to our country and our world.  (And that the Democrats are far from where we need to be does them no particular favors. "Better than the GOP" may win elections, but it is inadequate for America's needs.)

[gerritcole]

ITT:  red avatars calling voters dumbf[inks]ks and then wondering why their attempts at persuasion don't work lmao

The cognitive dissonance is baffling. Too many people (not just on the left, but on the right as well) are far more interested in being right than actually listening to or caring about voters' experiences.

It's a little difficult to address non-existent problems. What would you say to someone who said they wanted it to stop raining, but there's been a drought for weeks? I'm sincerely asking.

Probably the most ing out of touch statement, Marie Antoinette here folks telling the poors her pantry is full. Why are you a democrat? Tens of millions of people, including many posters are struggling to get by and you dismiss their claims as nonsense. But then you say orange man bad and muhhh Jan 6 pearl clutching and demand everyone’s votes, parody account

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The problem with stimulus all of it, it leads to inflation, due to fact we aren't paying student loans with our checks. That drives up minimum wage and store products. Due to fact instead of blanket discharge 20K we get 25 yr discharges on our student loans.


The whole student loans departments have shutdown hundreds of employees because borrowers aren't paying back student loans if Trump gets back in it still will be a deficit because Students loans not being paid drives up deficit

So, of course inflation is gonna continue to be a problem because rents are too high and there are sober livings and no one gets on Section 8 unless you have kids or are Latinx

Instead of having projects people are living in sober livings that are a lot cheaper but you don't have your own bedroom you share with roommates or if you have a single room you share a living space. I have been doing this for awhile now. Due to fact rents are too high

[Ferguson97]

Unaffordable housing, food and gas gobbling up disposable income, businesses cutting hours and inventory, "well-paying" jobs being cut (layoffs were up in 2022 from 2023, and look likely to be up again this year)... it doesn't matter if 'recession' is the correct term of art, or if investments are doing great. What matters is voters' lived experience. And lived experience economically is worse for many people under Biden than it was under Trump.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Did I hallucinate when the pandemic ravaged the economy, and we had 14% unemployment under Trump?

Probably the most ing out of touch statement, Marie Antoinette here folks telling the poors her pantry is full. Why are you a democrat? Tens of millions of people, including many posters are struggling to get by and you dismiss their claims as nonsense. But then you say orange man bad and muhhh Jan 6 pearl clutching and demand everyone’s votes, parody account

Why are so many people rating their personal economic situation as good then? Seriously, I'd love for you (either of you) to explain this massive gap in how people rate the economy vs their own personal financial situation to me.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Unaffordable housing, food and gas gobbling up disposable income, businesses cutting hours and inventory, "well-paying" jobs being cut (layoffs were up in 2022 from 2023, and look likely to be up again this year)... it doesn't matter if 'recession' is the correct term of art, or if investments are doing great. What matters is voters' lived experience. And lived experience economically is worse for many people under Biden than it was under Trump.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Did I hallucinate when the pandemic ravaged the economy, and we had 14% unemployment under Trump?

I get where you're coming from, but at the same time, I can see why people might not have that in their everyday thoughts.

There's a difference in perception between "I don't have a good job because there's a pandemic" and "I have a good job now, but still can't afford <stuff> because the prices have gone up so much".  Nobody even wants to remember the pandemic. (Or that COVID is still very real and very bad for you.)

While I'm not going to say he deserves one, I think a lot of people give Trump a pass for what happened during the pandemic, at least economically. It bridged the Trump and Biden administrations, so neither of them exactly "owns" it in the zeitgeist. And even Trump's insane press conferences and massively-murderous handling of it have been mostly washed away by time and "well, it was a pandemic" among too many people. Plus, as always, while there's lot of media coverage about what a terrible person Donald Trump is there seems to be very little mass media coverage of what an incompetent executive Donald Trump is.


When it comes to the sense of the economy, just talk to people. I can't think of a post-pandemic conversation I've had where the topics of food price or gasoline price came up, and someone didn't mention how much more everything cost than it did before the pandemic (or before Biden got elected).  The national average on gas was under $3 for Trump's entire time in office, it climbed above $3 months after  Biden took office, and has never come back down. Something else to keep in mind is that there may be a difference for people between "my current situation" and "how secure do I feel". 

I'm certainly not saying anyone should vote for Donald Trump - he is utterly unfit for public office, and voting for him is an utter abdication of citizenship, decency, and personal responsibility. And, I think the economy is a very, very long way being something the President can control. But at the same time, these are real things that affect how people think - the President owns the economy, even if that's not fair or accurate.

And telling people "the economy is great" when they're going to look at their gas and grocery bills and say, "no, it's not" is a fool's errand.  When it comes to media coverage, mentally translate every mention of the "economy" to "rich people's yacht funds" and you'll have a much better sense for what information is actually being provided.

[Obama24]

Nvidia was worth $300 billion when Biden came into office. Now it's $2 trillion. Clearly, the economy is  booming.

The only problem is that not enough of it is trickling down to the people. Our labor is harvested by AI (such as all posts on Atlas, no doubt) but unless we are shareholders, we see none of the profits.

Yup, it's not trickling down enough. So clearly the lesson should be putting the party that advocated for trickle down economics over the past 40+ years back in power. It's really beyond me how have a fair junk of the electorate apparently doesn't get that.

People have short term memories.

The 1980s was a good short term economic time, and we paid for the 1980s in 2008. But people do not make that correlation.

Similarly, the period from 2014 through 2019 was a good time economically. They do not realize that at least half of that economic period was due to policies put in place from 2009 through 2013, and associate it with Trump.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Nvidia was worth $300 billion when Biden came into office. Now it's $2 trillion. Clearly, the economy is  booming.

The only problem is that not enough of it is trickling down to the people. Our labor is harvested by AI (such as all posts on Atlas, no doubt) but unless we are shareholders, we see none of the profits.

Yup, it's not trickling down enough. So clearly the lesson should be putting the party that advocated for trickle down economics over the past 40+ years back in power. It's really beyond me how have a fair junk of the electorate apparently doesn't get that.

People have short term memories.

The 1980s was a good short term economic time, and we paid for the 1980s in 2008. But people do not make that correlation.

Similarly, the period from 2014 through 2019 was a good time economically. They do not realize that at least half of that economic period was due to policies put in place from 2009 through 2013, and associate it with Trump.

No it wasn't blks and Latinos were in projects the whole Recession thing is due to a shortage of  affordable Housing there aren't enough Section 8 vouchers going around

[jojoju1998]

Unaffordable housing, food and gas gobbling up disposable income, businesses cutting hours and inventory, "well-paying" jobs being cut (layoffs were up in 2022 from 2023, and look likely to be up again this year)... it doesn't matter if 'recession' is the correct term of art, or if investments are doing great. What matters is voters' lived experience. And lived experience economically is worse for many people under Biden than it was under Trump.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Did I hallucinate when the pandemic ravaged the economy, and we had 14% unemployment under Trump?

Probably the most ing out of touch statement, Marie Antoinette here folks telling the poors her pantry is full. Why are you a democrat? Tens of millions of people, including many posters are struggling to get by and you dismiss their claims as nonsense. But then you say orange man bad and muhhh Jan 6 pearl clutching and demand everyone’s votes, parody account

Why are so many people rating their personal economic situation as good then? Seriously, I'd love for you (either of you) to explain this massive gap in how people rate the economy vs their own personal financial situation to me.

Perhaps, ancedtotally, Americans saw 2020 as an aberration. And by June of 2020, the unemployment rate was already starting to go down from it's high.

[GAinDC]

Unaffordable housing, food and gas gobbling up disposable income, businesses cutting hours and inventory, "well-paying" jobs being cut (layoffs were up in 2022 from 2023, and look likely to be up again this year)... it doesn't matter if 'recession' is the correct term of art, or if investments are doing great. What matters is voters' lived experience. And lived experience economically is worse for many people under Biden than it was under Trump.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Did I hallucinate when the pandemic ravaged the economy, and we had 14% unemployment under Trump?

Probably the most ing out of touch statement, Marie Antoinette here folks telling the poors her pantry is full. Why are you a democrat? Tens of millions of people, including many posters are struggling to get by and you dismiss their claims as nonsense. But then you say orange man bad and muhhh Jan 6 pearl clutching and demand everyone’s votes, parody account

Why are so many people rating their personal economic situation as good then? Seriously, I'd love for you (either of you) to explain this massive gap in how people rate the economy vs their own personal financial situation to me.

People always want to give themselves credit but give blame to others

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

As I said before the Recession is caused by non affordable Housing not because a shortage of jobs, property value keeps going up but lack of affordable Housing. Some things I live in a dorm but I live in a sober living, there are many sober livings but they aren't in certain states that's why I left IL. They have them in TX where I am gonna live and here in CA you share a living space with others and pay cheaper rent

If you don't have kids or aren't Latinx you won't get Section 8

[kyc0705]

There is a Trump-friendly PAC currently running an ad that features two GOP-aligned talking points that they clearly feel are intuitive to some degree among the public, enough to run a spot entirely based around them: (1) That the economy is in terrible shape, and (2) Biden's statements that the economy is improving are so unbelievable that it's feasibly a sign he has dementia. That's the entire ad.

Funnily enough, as I live in the Philly market, I also get spots for Bob Casey's campaign, where he talks about shrinkflation. Considering that both ad campaigns begin with discussion of the rising price of groceries, it's often hard to tell for the first few seconds of an ad what direction it's going in.

[Samof94]

Gas, food, and housing is too expensive. Working-Class Americans don't care that billionaires and corporations are doing better than ever, that doesn't benefit them.

Shrinkflation is a word that occasionally comes up.