Biden condemns ICC for requesting an arrest warrant for Netanyahu

[T'Chenka]

Biden is wrong here but honestly he's not really in an easy position because supporting it would destroy any negotiating power he has with Netanyahu.

He could just say nothing.

[OSR stands with Israel]

This really pisses me off.

why?

Because Netenyahu should be arrested by the ICC.

No , the ICC is a useless organization that would greatly undermine our foreign policy as a whole . Literally every president since WW2 would be charged by the ICC if we recognized their authority so no doing so would be disastrous for our own interests.

[Not Me, Us]

The US should be helping the ICC bring Netanyahu to justice, not admonishing them for it. Joe Biden is a joke, nothing more than Bibi's lapdog.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I get that he needs to work with Bibi still, but for f***'s sake...

We have a law on the books saying that if the ICC arrested any American official, it would be be considered a declaration of war on the United States.

So this is fully consistent with US policy of believing the ICC should not have any real authority

Nobody cares about that.

All that matters are optics these days, and Biden standing by a Netanyahu, who now has it reinforced that he committed war-crimes, is going to be a disaster.

I think I might finally be moving closer to the replace Biden at the convention (not wirh Harris) and hope for the best...

I still like the guy, and a lot of things aren't his fault. He just doesn't have what is necessary to satisfy the shallow and misinformed needs of the American people in this stupid time.

Trump had pretty good luck during the first three years of his presidency, Biden’s luck is the inverse...except for this year where we might as well have a public health/economic crisis piled on.

[Ferguson97]

This really pisses me off.

why?

Because Netenyahu should be arrested by the ICC.

No , the ICC is a useless organization that would greatly undermine our foreign policy as a whole . Literally every president since WW2 would be charged by the ICC if we recognized their authority so no doing so would be disastrous for our own interests.

I'm not talking about the United States, I'm talking about Israel and Netenyahu.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

This really pisses me off.

why?

Because Netenyahu should be arrested by the ICC.

No , the ICC is a useless organization that would greatly undermine our foreign policy as a whole . Literally every president since WW2 would be charged by the ICC if we recognized their authority so no doing so would be disastrous for our own interests.

Yeah, if this ends up destroying the ICC then so much the better.  I’ve never liked it, even before this.  It’s a joke of an organization that shouldn’t have any authority imo.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This really pisses me off.

why?

Because Netenyahu should be arrested by the ICC.

No , the ICC is a useless organization that would greatly undermine our foreign policy as a whole . Literally every president since WW2 would be charged by the ICC if we recognized their authority so no doing so would be disastrous for our own interests.

Yeah, if this ends up destroying the ICC then so much the better.  I’ve never liked it, even before this.  It’s a joke of an organization that shouldn’t have any authority imo.

How would you propose handling and trying the likes of people like Ratko Mladić, Ante Gotovina, and Elizaphan Ntakirutimana?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Putin, Netanyahu, and the Hamas leadership should all be cooling their heels at that prison in County Durham with Charles Taylor.

[Red Velvet]

Goddamnit Biden.

One minute you say Bibi is garbage, and the next you're defending him from being held accountable for all the sh!t he's been doing?

Make up your mind already instead of this half-assed stuff you've been doing.

Once you guys in the US Left understand that Democrats only pretend to be liberal internationalists for the sake of “prestige” and are as hardcore nationalists as Trump, brains will explode.

Biden has already made up his mind, you and others who just don’t want to accept it.

[Old Man Willow]

He went a bit further than just defending Netanyahu:

“What’s happening is not genocide. We reject that,” Biden said during a speech in the Rose Garden.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/20/biden-gaza-not-genocide-israel-00159020

[Obama24]

He went a bit further than just defending Netanyahu:

“What’s happening is not genocide. We reject that,” Biden said during a speech in the Rose Garden.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/20/biden-gaza-not-genocide-israel-00159020

With every foot in mouth quote he makes on this matter, he loses yet more Muslim and youth votes and brings us one step closer to a second Trump term. He could simply make neutral non-comments or stay silent. But he's damaged perhaps beyond repair his chances with segments of the reliably Democratic voting bloc, and instead of trying to back out of the hole, he just seems to be determined to dig himself deeper.

[KaiserDave]

Sad.

[brucejoel99]

Biden is not going to endorse the attempt by the ICC to create a precedent for universal jurisdiction. He's far too smart for that. One of the many reasons he still has my vote.

How is the ICC abiding by historically precedented prosecutorial jurisdiction over war crimes allegedly committed in (&/or by nationals of) a signatory to the Rome Statute actually an "attempt by the ICC to create a precedent for universal jurisdiction" regardless of where an alleged war crime was committed or of an accused's nationality in relation to the ICC?

[Obama24]

Sad.

Biden continually commenting on this in such a way that pisses off one crowd or the other, to me, is comparable to Trump coming out and repeatedly saying stupid or divisive things during the pandemic.

If Trump had just shut up or at best made hopeful, fireside chat-esque comforting statements, gave speeches that inspired hope or deflected national fear, and went along with whatever the CDC said, and handed out on a mass scale Trump logo'd masks, he'd have comfortably won re-election.

Likewise, Biden I feel is digging a grave for his re-election deeper and deeper every time he speaks on this issue. The damage was done arguably by February, but he's only making it worse by commenting so strongly this late in the election year.

[AtorBoltox]

This really pisses me off.

why?

Because Netenyahu should be arrested by the ICC.

No , the ICC is a useless organization that would greatly undermine our foreign policy as a whole . Literally every president since WW2 would be charged by the ICC if we recognized their authority so no doing so would be disastrous for our own interests.

Yeah, if this ends up destroying the ICC then so much the better.  I’ve never liked it, even before this.  It’s a joke of an organization that shouldn’t have any authority imo.

How would you propose handling and trying the likes of people like Ratko Mladić, Ante Gotovina, and Elizaphan Ntakirutimana?

None of these people were tried by the ICC, so this is a non-sequitur

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Sad.

Biden continually commenting on this in such a way that pisses off one crowd or the other, to me, is comparable to Trump coming out and repeatedly saying stupid or divisive things during the pandemic.

If Trump had just shut up or at best made hopeful, fireside chat-esque comforting statements, gave speeches that inspired hope or deflected national fear, and went along with whatever the CDC said, and handed out on a mass scale Trump logo'd masks, he'd have comfortably won re-election.

Likewise, Biden I feel is digging a grave for his re-election deeper and deeper every time he speaks on this issue. The damage was done arguably by February, but he's only making it worse by commenting so strongly this late in the election year.

Let me take something like that and translate to Trump speak.

"Fauci said we couldn't get vax for China virus this year. But we did anyways because I made America Great Again!"

[Obama24]

Sad.

Biden continually commenting on this in such a way that pisses off one crowd or the other, to me, is comparable to Trump coming out and repeatedly saying stupid or divisive things during the pandemic.

If Trump had just shut up or at best made hopeful, fireside chat-esque comforting statements, gave speeches that inspired hope or deflected national fear, and went along with whatever the CDC said, and handed out on a mass scale Trump logo'd masks, he'd have comfortably won re-election.

Likewise, Biden I feel is digging a grave for his re-election deeper and deeper every time he speaks on this issue. The damage was done arguably by February, but he's only making it worse by commenting so strongly this late in the election year.

Let me take something like that and translate to Trump speak.

"Fauci said we couldn't get vax for China virus this year. But we did anyways because I made America Great Again!"

You mean Biden's comment re genocide in Gaza?

I did a cursory view of Tiktok, regarding his comment. People on there seem pissed. Tiktok tends to swing Gen Z and non-white. Not a good sign.

[HisGrace]

He went a bit further than just defending Netanyahu:

“What’s happening is not genocide. We reject that,” Biden said during a speech in the Rose Garden.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/20/biden-gaza-not-genocide-israel-00159020

Of course everyone mad at Biden for stating the obvious. He's fortunately not willing to spew BS just to meme with the tiktok kids.

[GP270watch]

 Biden should let the international community bring Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas leadership to justice for their crimes against innocent people.

[Obama24]

He went a bit further than just defending Netanyahu:

“What’s happening is not genocide. We reject that,” Biden said during a speech in the Rose Garden.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/20/biden-gaza-not-genocide-israel-00159020

Of course everyone mad at Biden for stating the obvious. He's fortunately not willing to spew BS just to meme with the tiktok kids.

the 'tiktok kids' aka, the youth vote. If turnout is low, and Trump wins a second term, it'll be because he did all he could to piss off 'the tiktok kids' with this issue.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Good.

The ICC has lost the plot.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I’d still have massive jurisdictional issues with jurisdictional issues with this, but if it were just a warrant for Smotrich on the Israeli side, that would be a lot more reasonable imo.  Were Israel a nation that had agreed to be bound by the ICC, I’d also be somewhat less adamantly opposed (although I have always considered the ICC a dumb, useless organization that should be replaced with various individual special tribunals for major crimes like what was done for Nazi German at Nuremberg or for former Yugoslavia).  

Honestly, I try hard to be fair about this stuff.  On thr Hamas side, the more I think about it, I also have issues with the warrant for Haniyeh.  Deif and Yahya Sinwar, no issue there.  However, while Haniyeh is a bad dude and I certainly won’t complain if Israel takes him out, I’m not sure the evidence is actually there that he had sufficient advance knowledge of 10/7 to justify this.  That wasn’t done to insulate him, but as a consequence of the complex inter-organizational factional feuds within Hamas and Yahya Sinwar’s personal hatred for Ismail Haniyeh (by all accounts, Sinwar has always harbored an almost comically intense grudge against Haniyeh for beating him [Sinwar] in the election to lead Hamas and then living in luxury in Qatar rather than sticking around in Gaza like Sinwar and most of the other leading hardliners did*).  

Don’t get me wrong, Haniyeh knew something was coming well in advance, but I’ve yet to see compelling evidence he knew what and honestly, I highly doubt he’s the chief impediment to a ceasefire on the Hamas side.  Sinwar and Deif know nothing will change for them if there is a ceasefire.  They’re marked men for life either way, so they have no reason to back down.  OTOH, there is definitely a universe where Israel settles for the Sinwar brothers, Deif, the remnants of their respective inner circles, and basically dismantling Hamas in Gaza itself while leaving Haniyeh and Mashel alone.

That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if Hamas already made a decision to execute the remaining hostages whom Yahya Sinwar isn’t using as personal human shields and Haniyeh signed off on that, in which case…well…that’s another story.  But in terms of 10/7 itself, I can’t honestly say he belongs in the same tier as folks like Sinwar and Deif based on what I’ve read.

I should also note that Qatar is also not a signatory to the ICC so they don’t have jurisdiction there either as far as I’m concerned.  It’s far less egregious than the nonsense warrants against Netanyahu and especially Gallant (that one was idiotic on so many levels) for various reasons including that Hamas is far worse than Israel (there is no equivalency) and that Hamas is not a government (much less a legitimate and democratically elected one), but fair is fair.  If I had to do 1-3 for each side (with at least one for each side), then I’d have done warrants for Smotrich, Deif, Yahya Sinwar, and either Ziyad Al-Nakhalah of the PIJ, Rawhi Mushtaha of Hamas, or Mohammed Sinwar of Hamas (take your pick).

*Guess which faction has more of its leadership alive and kicking.  Hint: It’s not Sinwar’s, although Al-Arouri’s death was admittedly a massive blow to the pragmatist wing and probably brought Sinwar some degree of very petty satisfaction.  Sinwar seems very much like the kinda guy who inspires a lot of loyalty b/c he will always go to the mat for you no questions asked with everything he’s got if you are part of his “team,” but is hated by everyone else b/c he’s just the most obnoxious, vindictive, and pointlessly petty raging a**hole to everyone he doesn’t think of as part of his “team” yet so “good at his job” (as it were) that folks who aren’t part of his faction like Haniyeh and Al-Arouri held their nose and tolerated the ulcers he periodically caused them through insubordination and semi-rogue operations.  But I digress…

[SnowLabrador]

Biden doesn't care about winning. It's hard for me to come to any other conclusion after this, combined with his signing the ban of TikTok. Literally nobody under 40 is excited to vote for him, and say what you will about Trump, but his base would crawl naked over broken glass to vote for him if they had to.

[Brittain33]

He went a bit further than just defending Netanyahu:

“What’s happening is not genocide. We reject that,” Biden said during a speech in the Rose Garden.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/20/biden-gaza-not-genocide-israel-00159020

With every foot in mouth quote he makes on this matter, he loses yet more Muslim and youth votes and brings us one step closer to a second Trump term. He could simply make neutral non-comments or stay silent. But he's damaged perhaps beyond repair his chances with segments of the reliably Democratic voting bloc, and instead of trying to back out of the hole, he just seems to be determined to dig himself deeper.

I trust Biden knows the politics of this well (accurately rebutting claims of genocide isn’t “foot in mouth” but a clear statement of administration policy) and polls show only a tiny percentage of young Democratic voters are moving against Biden on this issue. Cost of living is a much bigger factor for them AND Biden is with the majority of Americans in rejecting Holocaust appropriation by leftist activists here, e.g. people ludicrously claiming that Gaza was just like the Warsaw Ghetto before Oct. 7 and Israelis were Nazis.

[Obama24]

He went a bit further than just defending Netanyahu:

“What’s happening is not genocide. We reject that,” Biden said during a speech in the Rose Garden.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/20/biden-gaza-not-genocide-israel-00159020

With every foot in mouth quote he makes on this matter, he loses yet more Muslim and youth votes and brings us one step closer to a second Trump term. He could simply make neutral non-comments or stay silent. But he's damaged perhaps beyond repair his chances with segments of the reliably Democratic voting bloc, and instead of trying to back out of the hole, he just seems to be determined to dig himself deeper.

I trust Biden knows the politics of this well (accurately rebutting claims of genocide isn’t “foot in mouth” but a clear statement of administration policy) and polls show only a tiny percentage of young Democratic voters are moving against Biden on this issue. Cost of living is a much bigger factor for them AND Biden is with the majority of Americans in rejecting Holocaust appropriation by leftist activists here, e.g. people ludicrously claiming that Gaza was just like the Warsaw Ghetto before Oct. 7 and Israelis were Nazis.

The electoral college tends to be determined by relatively tiny percentages of voters in a handful of states.