Whether or not Zionism was correct is irrelevant

[VBM]

I personally think that Zionism was a mistake, but we can’t change the past. The fact of the matter is that pretty much every Israeli alive today was born in the Israel/Palestine region, so they have just as much of a right to live there as native Palestinians do. Imo, the anti-Zionism stuff is one of the least convincing arguments from the pro-Palestine crowd for this reason. It’s not much different from arguing that Native Americans would be morally justified in forcibly removing white people from America. If anything, it’s even less convincing since at least Israel actually was the ancient ancestral homeland of the Jews, while Americans obviously don’t have any ancient ancestral ties to America.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I don’t know that most of the “pro-Palestine” crowd wants to forcibly remove Jews from the Holy Land. I would hazard a guess that they do not.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

None of the reasonable plans have Israel giving up any of their pre 1967 territory despite that being significantly more than the UN plan gave them in the Partition of Palestine, which was seen as rather biased towards the Jews.

[VBM]

I don’t know that most of the “pro-Palestine” crowd wants to forcibly remove Jews from the Holy Land. I would hazard a guess that they do not.

Many do use it to justify Palestinian aggression towards Israelis

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

None of the reasonable plans have Israel giving up any of their pre 1967 territory despite that being significantly more than the UN plan gave them in the Partition of Palestine, which was seen as rather biased towards the Jews.

This very much is not about the "Reasonable plans", though.

[Devils30]

I don’t know that most of the “pro-Palestine” crowd wants to forcibly remove Jews from the Holy Land. I would hazard a guess that they do not.

They absolutely want Jews out of there or subjected to living under the whims of Islamist thugs.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

I don’t know that most of the “pro-Palestine” crowd wants to forcibly remove Jews from the Holy Land. I would hazard a guess that they do not.

They absolutely want Jews out of there or subjected to living under the whims of Islamist thugs.

And many of the ones who are causing the biggest problems in the protests/mobs around the world are very explicit that they do not want Jews in their countries either.

[Comrade Funk]

Native Americans, despite everything, were granted citizenship and voting rights. Israel will never do that in the West Bank; all the while messianic ghouls continue to colonize Palestinian land (and receive political/voting rights). Is that relevant?

[Devils30]

Native Americans, despite everything, were granted citizenship and voting rights. Israel will never do that in the West Bank; all the while messianic ghouls continue to colonize Palestinian land (and receive political/voting rights). Is that relevant?

The whole point is that residents of the West Bank are meant to be part of a Palestinian state, not Israel. But they have to recognize Israel’s right to exist in even its 1967-ish borders, a place most Palestinians have honestly not even come close to reaching at the moment.

[wnwnwn]

Mizrahi jews have no other place to go.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I don’t know that most of the “pro-Palestine” crowd wants to forcibly remove Jews from the Holy Land. I would hazard a guess that they do not.

They absolutely want Jews out of there or subjected to living under the whims of Islamist thugs.

It’s important that we stand against anti-Semitic hate and bigotry, lest we let mobs of Islamist thugs take over.


Do you people hear yourselves?!

[VBM]

I don’t know that most of the “pro-Palestine” crowd wants to forcibly remove Jews from the Holy Land. I would hazard a guess that they do not.

They absolutely want Jews out of there or subjected to living under the whims of Islamist thugs.

It’s important that we stand against anti-Semitic hate and bigotry, lest we let mobs of Islamist thugs take over.


Do you people hear yourselves?!

Islamist =\= Muslim. An Islamist is a radical Islam fundamentalist

[OSR stands with Israel]

I don’t know that most of the “pro-Palestine” crowd wants to forcibly remove Jews from the Holy Land. I would hazard a guess that they do not.

They absolutely want Jews out of there or subjected to living under the whims of Islamist thugs.

It’s important that we stand against anti-Semitic hate and bigotry, lest we let mobs of Islamist thugs take over.


Do you people hear yourselves?!

Islamist =\= Muslim. An Islamist is a radical Islam fundamentalist

Yup for example Egypt is Muslim but not Islamist

[Devils30]

I don’t know that most of the “pro-Palestine” crowd wants to forcibly remove Jews from the Holy Land. I would hazard a guess that they do not.

They absolutely want Jews out of there or subjected to living under the whims of Islamist thugs.

It’s important that we stand against anti-Semitic hate and bigotry, lest we let mobs of Islamist thugs take over.


Do you people hear yourselves?!

Islamist =\= Muslim. An Islamist is a radical Islam fundamentalist

Yup for example Egypt is Muslim but not Islamist

Islamist refers to political Islam- the ideology, not the religion. Israel isn't giving up the right of self-determination to live under these people because some leftist clowns on campus tell them to.

[HisGrace]

This is pretty much how I feel about it. In addition to the argument just being wrong (the Jewish ethnicity is indigenous to the Israel/Palestine region, not Europe) virtually no one there now was cognizant in 48 so none of that matters. For the concept of the nation-state to work there has to be an element of "squatter's rights" to it effectively, if you live somewhere long enough it becomes yours. Saying otherwise takes you down some very ugly ethnonationalist roads.

I don’t know that most of the “pro-Palestine” crowd wants to forcibly remove Jews from the Holy Land. I would hazard a guess that they do not.

Hamas and virtually the entire Palestinian leadership does though. Which begs the question of why someone would call themselves "Pro Palestine" in the context of the conflict between Israel and Palestine when they don't agree with that.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

Native Americans, despite everything, were granted citizenship and voting rights. Israel will never do that in the West Bank; all the while messianic ghouls continue to colonize Palestinian land (and receive political/voting rights). Is that relevant?

The whole point is that residents of the West Bank are meant to be part of a Palestinian state, not Israel. But they have to recognize Israel’s right to exist in even its 1967-ish borders, a place most Palestinians have honestly not even come close to reaching at the moment.

Native Americans have been freely able to cross the borders of the US and Canada since the Jay Treaty of 1795. If Palestinians had the same rights as Native Americans today you'd effectively have a one or one-and-a-half state solution that would make the question of recognizing two states totally irrelevant. There is no law demanding that the Cherokee stay on their reservation or that they aren't allowed to purchase land in their ancestral homelands.

Or, for that matter, that they're under any obligation to recognize the legitimacy of America's borders to exercise their rights as American citizens. There are plenty of Native Americans who might dispute America's "right to exist" and yet nobody would ever suggest they should lose their citizenship and rights.

[Indy Texas]

I don’t know that most of the “pro-Palestine” crowd wants to forcibly remove Jews from the Holy Land. I would hazard a guess that they do not.

They tend to rely on one of the following assumptions:

(1) Every Israeli or their parents just got here from present-day Poland, Germany or Austria and should just "go back there." Most of them not only aren't from those places, but their families never lived there to begin with. If you want to "send them back" somewhere, it would be to Iraq or Iran or Morocco or Syria, and then you'd have to have a very uncomfortable conversation about why neither they nor those countries would be okay with that.

(2) The Levant was a utopia of peaceful coexistence prior to Israel ruining everything. There were Jews, Muslims and Christians living there pre-1918 but they weren't peacefully coexisting so much as being so physically, legally and socially separated that they never had any reason to be bothered by each other.

[Open Source Intelligence]

I personally think that the Greek-Turkish conflict in Cyprus in the 1970s was a mistake, but we can’t change the past. The fact of the matter is that a clear majority of Turkish Cypriots alive today were born in Turkish Cyprus, so they have just as much of a right to live there as native Greek Cypriots do. Imo, the anti-Turkish Cyprus stuff is one of the least convincing arguments from the pro-Republic of Cyprus crowd for this reason. It’s not much different from arguing that Native Americans would be morally justified in forcibly removing white people from America.

The fact of the matter is that pretty much every Israeli alive today was born in the Israel/Palestine region, so they have just as much of a right to live there as native Palestinians do.

Was reading up on aliyah last night actually. The number of people born in the Soviet Union now living in Israel is so great that Russian is a working language of sorts in the state behind Hebrew and Arabic with public broadcasting. Using from 1980 onwards as my cutoff date, historical data in a table on the subject of aliyah on Wikipedia says about 1.6 million people immigrated to Israel from abroad. The 2022 estimate for national population is 9.6 million, so if all those people are still alive we're talking 1 out of 6.