Mass Protests in Cuba

[CumbrianLefty]

https://twitter.com/YoungLabourUK/status/1415995244781395975

Can we ditch the Labour elite and promote Young Labour.

It already happened and it resulted in the Tories winning their largest victory since 1987 and Labour suffering their worst defeat since 1935

There were certain other reasons too.

But off topic......

[(no subject)]

British voters showed they don’t want Old Labour style socialism.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

https://twitter.com/YoungLabourUK/status/1415995244781395975

Can we ditch the Labour elite and promote Young Labour.

It already happened and it resulted in the Tories winning their largest victory since 1987 and Labour suffering their worst defeat since 1935

This is 2021, not 1987.

It's not like the old Labour elite can win elections too.

Secondly, you have to invest in the future, it will take multiple elections to re-invent your brand. Politics is rotten to the bone, and you know why... because politicians only care about the elections of tomorrow, not in what is right.

British voters showed they don’t want Old Labour style socialism.

And neither do they want Labour style third way neoliberalism.

You know the drill...

For one century long, it will be Tory up and Tory there... but I do not participate in trying to get as close to the center or the opposition, and not be dare and voice support for things that are meaningful. I want change, and at this point Labour is not the vote for change (even if Tories are the incumbents now).

You have to create and get new ideas, you have to build a new brand with grassroots support. If they can't do that, perhaps Labour has no reason to exist...

If trying to get as close to the center and trying to get as close to the Tories to convince more & more centrist voters is the strategy, it means you can just vote Tory. If i want more of that, i could just vote for the original, i mean.

I don't care at the moment... I mean at this point, they could just disband... they're better off without some opposition.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

British voters showed they don’t want Old Labour style socialism.

"Old Labour style" is an...interesting way of describing Corbyn's leadership.

Regardless, I really don't understand why you're so reluctant to let "Re: Mass Protests in Cuba" be a thread about mass protests in Cuba.

[Continential]

British voters showed they don’t want Old Labour style socialism.

And neither do they want Labour style third way neoliberalism.

Jolly Slugg from what I've seen is a Australian right winger.

[Continential]

I don't care at the moment... I mean at this point, they could just disband... they're better off without some opposition.

What makes you think that there wouldn't be opposition considering that some other party will fill the void of Labour if it dissolved like the LibDems or Greens or some new party?

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

British voters showed they don’t want Old Labour style socialism.

"Old Labour style" is an...interesting way of describing Corbyn's leadership.

Regardless, I really don't understand why you're so reluctant to let "Re: Mass Protests in Cuba" be a thread about mass protests in Cuba.

We need some police brutality against the people who keep derailing the thread

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I don't care at the moment... I mean at this point, they could just disband... they're better off without some opposition.

What makes you think that there wouldn't be opposition considering that some other party will fill the void of Labour if it dissolved like the LibDems or Greens or some new party?

I didn't mean that, i just meant UK is probably at this point better off without Labour if they refuse to be a "leftist" voice. I doubt LibDem would fill the gap. The Greens might though long-term but they cannot win either.

EDIT: if we want to continue the discussion, perhaps do it elsewhere because I just see this is a Cuba thread?

[Velasco]

Any relevant updates? Can you discuss Cuba, please?

Tbh, this forum sucks. Right now I would feel grateful if someone was reporting novelties,  for I'm lacking the time or feeling too tired to read news from different sources. But here I only read  nonsense about UK Labour or the Grand Mufti. What a,shame

[2952-0-0]

New protests have broken out. It comes after worsening power blackouts and food shortages.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/cuba-hundreds-take-streets-rare-protests-economic-crisis-deepens-rcna143871

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-18/cuban-protesters-take-to-streets-as-lights-go-out-across-island

I'm not at all surprised. The shortages have become so bad that the Cuban government requested milk powder from the World Food Program. Requesting foreign aid is proof that they are aware they don't have the power to intentionally starve the people like in North Korea.

Another indicator that the shortages are reaching a critical point: the beach resorts owned by the Cuban military, which are frequented by Canadian and Russian tourists during the tourism season, usually are well supplied with food - even if the food isn't particularly good. But many Canadians who returned from vacations to Cuba this winter complain that the shortages are affecting the resorts as well. That suggests a breakdown in even that money-earning sector.

Back in 2021, the Cuban leadership immediately called on all Party members to go on the street and prove their loyalty to the revolution. But there haven't been such calls this time, even if there was the usual repression. I wonder what happens next. I'm not betting on a regime change, and I would still be surprised if it occurred, but you can't rule it out.

Because this is a US politics forum, I think if Biden were to win Florida, it would be because of events in Cuba and a statesmanlike response.

[GeneralMacArthur]

I came into this thread hoping to find out what's going on in Cuba and instead it's a bunch of babble about Fatah and the British Labour Party.  Wtf?

Anyone want to fill me in on the Cuba story?  Haven't been paying attention.

[PSOL]

The Cubans need to seriously understand that socialism cannot be done in one country and having the same economic structure when none of the other nations have the same ones, regardless of sanctions, is ultra-left nonsense. Cuba has no colonies to patch up a flailing economy and their economic system makes avoiding blame impossible thanks to government control of most of the economy. In the conventional capitalist world; people blame the workers, managers, HR, CEOs, corporations, and then President and government but rarely shareholders in that order. The policy decisions of Guevara and the Cuban left broadly, at least in spirit, were correct as is a necessary policy to ensure that revolutionaries are promoted in governments in Latin America and not reformists like in Peru.

It is disappointing that the CPC has failed across the board in providing the necessary decisions to ensure high living standards, its disappointing that they allow NGOs and religious fundies at the direct control of the United States to continue being a problem, it’s disappointing that they haven’t followed Vietnam’s example of success by having a much more open culture that is all about making fun at their enemies first and allowing free speech to not be threatening to a major extent, it’s disappointing that they did not have a heart to heart in trying to ensure that their allies in Latin America don’t act like dumbasses and that they have the humility to learn from them.

Any pre-revolutionary event will be hijacked by the United States. If such a thing occurs I support them cracking down hard and learning from the successes of when the PLA saved China in 1989. However they need to then ensure that such a thing never happens again by promoting a good standard of living and not the legalistic nightmare that’s often the case with the Chinese model.

[dead0man]

wow

"Cuba has been disappointing in presenting it's version of a left wing economic system and the people are starving, but I sure hope they drop the hammer hard an anyone that tries to stop that."

That is a very disturbing view you have and share with leftists the world over and throughout history.

[CumbrianLefty]

I came into this thread hoping to find out what's going on in Cuba and instead it's a bunch of babble about Fatah and the British Labour Party.  Wtf?

Anyone want to fill me in on the Cuba story?  Haven't been paying attention.

Those posts are from mid 2021, the thread has just been updated with actual Cuban news

[lfromnj]

https://havanatimes.org/features/the-year-when-the-most-cubans-left-for-the-united-states/

In 2022 2.4% of Cuba's population has left for America. Clearly just proof of American ethnic cleansing of a whole country.

[PSOL]

wow

"Cuba has been disappointing in presenting it's version of a left wing economic system and the people are starving, but I sure hope they drop the hammer hard an anyone that tries to stop that."

That is a very disturbing view you have and share with leftists the world over and throughout history.

It can always get worse and it did in most of the ex-communist world.

If that’s all you got from my post you are a fool.

https://havanatimes.org/features/the-year-when-the-most-cubans-left-for-the-united-states/

In 2022 2.4% of Cuba's population has left for America. Clearly just proof of American ethnic cleansing of a whole country.

Most of it is US policy, yes.

[Estrella]

It can always get worse and it did in most of the ex-communist world.

Oh look, another sheltered Westerner mourning bloodthirsty totalitarian regimes that align with his ideological larping and therefore were axiomatically good. Easy to do when you don't have to live with their consequences.

Check your privilege, sweetie.

[PSOL]

It can always get worse and it did in most of the ex-communist world.

Oh look, another sheltered Westerner mourning bloodthirsty totalitarian regimes that align with his ideological larping and therefore were axiomatically good. Easy to do when you don't have to live with their consequences.

Check your privilege, sweetie.

[Beet]

So apparently, Cuba is in an economic crisis that traces back to the Trump administration putting them on a 'State Sponsors of Terror' list in January 2021 as one of their last acts in office, which massively increased the sanctions on them. Biden, e.g., Trump 2.0, has continued to keep the sanctions. This came at a sensitive time for the local government, which was trying to do market reforms to improve the economy. But since no one will sell to a 'State Sponsor of Terror', market reforms only lead to massive inflation, whereas attempting to keep subsidies means shortages. Hence the country is emptying out & massive discontent.

If the Cuban government is overthrown, Trump and Biden can really take credit for it. Ironic as one of the arguments for lifting sanctions during the Obama administration was that '50 years of sanctions didn't work', but Trump/Biden may have just proved they weren't strong enough. It would be a rare case of sanctions working. Otoh, the new gov't would know who their 'Daddy' is that they would never cross the U.S. again.

[PSOL]

Nah, most of it is because Cuba has no allies at all and they failed to bring about allies due to revisionism and failure at making alliances. Parties that imitated the CPC line failed to succeed anywhere in Latin America and were sectarian in refusing to engage with forces that knew what must be done to take power.

[Coldstream]

Would be wonderful for Raul Castro to live long enough to see his regime collapse. I doubt it somehow.

[GoTfan]

Would be wonderful for Raul Castro to live long enough to see his regime collapse. I doubt it somehow.

I have been hoping for that regime to collapse for some time now.

[CumbrianLefty]

Would be wonderful for Raul Castro to live long enough to see his regime collapse. I doubt it somehow.

It has only lasted 65 years thus far, after all.

[An American Tail: Fubart Goes West]

Would be wonderful for Raul Castro to live long enough to see his regime collapse. I doubt it somehow.

I thought he died several years ago, after Fidel. TIL he’s still around.

[dead0man]

wow

"Cuba has been disappointing in presenting it's version of a left wing economic system and the people are starving, but I sure hope they drop the hammer hard an anyone that tries to stop that."

That is a very disturbing view you have and share with leftists the world over and throughout history.

It can always get worse and it did in most of the ex-communist world.

If that’s all you got from my post you are a fool.

maybe, I don't know.  But I'll try again if you want.

Thinking Vietnam's recovery was due to having a much more open culture that is all about making fun at their enemies first and allowing free speech to not be threatening to a major extent seems foolish to me.  Do you not credit any of the reforms away from socialism/communism and towards a more open market as part of the recovery?

Believing the massacres in the PRC "saved" it in 1998 is gross.  Proudly saying that you hope the Cubans follows these actions if hungry college students start to agitate against the state is also horrible.  Maybe it's not worse than supporting Jan 6th, I don't now, but damn it's certainly playing the same game.  Were you not already banned for something?  I get the Tankie clique confused.