Lara Trump promises legal ballot harvesting to be part of new RNC strategy

[Agafin]

“Unfortunately, we don’t have one day of voting, we don’t have paper ballots, we don’t have voter ID everywhere. So we have to play the hand that we’re dealt,” Trump said, noting the importance of early voting and mail-in voting where possible. “That way, we have votes banked as we head into Election Day, and we’re not playing catch up on Nov. 5 with the Democrats.”

“We need to be doing legal ballot harvesting — something that has never been done by the RNC, but I can promise you will be a huge part of what we’re planning to do,” she added. “And then come Election Day, and you’ll see that, I think, it’s not just about having poll watchers. It’s about having trained poll watchers and lawyers at locations around the country as necessary. And these are people who will be trained and able to physically count how many ballots are coming in. And how many ballots are going out.”

This is quite actually quite smart of her though it remains to be seen if she can actually make it work.

At ant rate, ballot harvesting is an extremely shady practice (one of the only parts of Trump's crusade against the US electoral system which is right in my opinion) but the only way to get it to stop is by republicans getting even better at it than democrats. The same thing is true with democrats but with with parties reversed.

[MasterJedi]

Too bad the money that would go to this and down ballot races is all going to Trump and his legal bills so it won’t happen.

[DrScholl]

Ballot harvesting is not shady unless you don't follow the rules (like setting up illegal drop boxes for vote collection like Republicans have done). Overall it sounds like the strategy is to challenge every vote not for Trump and make voting more difficult.

[Agafin]

Ballot harvesting is not shady unless you don't follow the rules (like setting up illegal drop boxes for vote collection like Republicans have done). Overall it sounds like the strategy is to challenge every vote not for Trump and make voting more difficult.

I could post a thousand links showing the contrary but this one should suffice:
7 Elections Reversed After Ballot Harvesting Scandals

It IS shady and just way too easy to abuse. But anyway, you are not going to agree so I really hope the RNC strategy involves republicans collecting ballots at churches, landlords/bosses blackmailing their tenants/workers for their votes, and canvassers coercing or bribing the homeless/addicts/mentally unstable to vote their way (very real examples that actually happened at a large enough scale to swing elections per the article) all leading to Trump winning by a narrow margin. Maybe that'll actually get dems to reconsider.

[DrScholl]

Ballot harvesting is not shady unless you don't follow the rules (like setting up illegal drop boxes for vote collection like Republicans have done). Overall it sounds like the strategy is to challenge every vote not for Trump and make voting more difficult.

I could post a thousand links showing the contrary but this one should suffice:
7 Elections Reversed After Ballot Harvesting Scandals

It IS shady and just way too easy to abuse. But anyway, you are not going to agree so I really hope the RNC strategy involves republicans collecting ballots at churches, landlords/bosses blackmailing their tenants/workers for their votes, and canvassers coercing or bribing the homeless/addicts/mentally unstable to vote their way (very real examples that actually happened at a large enough scale to swing elections per the article) all leading to Trump winning by a narrow margin. Maybe that'll actually get dems to reconsider.

All those examples are election fraud. I'm talking about allowing an authorized party to return signed and sealed ballots with a voter signature plus an authorized return agent stipulated on the envelope.

You complain that ballot harvesting is a problem, yet you say that you hope Trump wins by fraud. You aren't joking. Some of you all have lost your rabid ass minds.

[Agafin]

Ballot harvesting is not shady unless you don't follow the rules (like setting up illegal drop boxes for vote collection like Republicans have done). Overall it sounds like the strategy is to challenge every vote not for Trump and make voting more difficult.

I could post a thousand links showing the contrary but this one should suffice:
7 Elections Reversed After Ballot Harvesting Scandals

It IS shady and just way too easy to abuse. But anyway, you are not going to agree so I really hope the RNC strategy involves republicans collecting ballots at churches, landlords/bosses blackmailing their tenants/workers for their votes, and canvassers coercing or bribing the homeless/addicts/mentally unstable to vote their way (very real examples that actually happened at a large enough scale to swing elections per the article) all leading to Trump winning by a narrow margin. Maybe that'll actually get dems to reconsider.

All those examples are election fraud. I'm talking about allowing an authorized party to return signed and sealed ballots with a voter signature plus an authorized return agent stipulated on the envelope.

You complain that ballot harvesting is a problem, yet you say that you hope Trump wins by fraud. You aren't joking. Some of you all have lost your rabid ass minds.

The bolded is exactly what opponents of ballot harvesting (like myself) are against. Why would that ever be necessary? The only possible exception I could see is in the case of a disabled person who might genuinely have difficult returning his envelope. But in that case, it would be fine to allow such a person with an excuse designate someone (and only one!) to return the envelope for him. However making the number of envelopes someone can collect ("harvest") to be pretty much unlimited is NEVER justified.

And yes, those examples are indeed fraud. They wouldn't have been possible (not to that scale at least) if it wasn't for ballot harvesting, which is why it was banned in those states (which mostly happen to be red states).

[Lief 🗽]

Political parties always help their voters vote. How is picking up and dropping off someone’s ballot functionally any different from picking them up and driving them to the polls?

[ProudModerate2]

... “And then come Election Day, and you’ll see that, I think, it’s not just about having poll watchers. It’s about having trained poll watchers and lawyers at locations around the country as necessary. And these are people who will be trained and able to physically count how many ballots are coming in. And how many ballots are going out.”

What about this part of the comments by Psycho Lara?
"Trained poll watchers at locations." Sounds like Brown Shirt Nazis standing around, and their whole purpose there is to intimidate people who just want to vote in peace.

[Fuzzy Bear]

... “And then come Election Day, and you’ll see that, I think, it’s not just about having poll watchers. It’s about having trained poll watchers and lawyers at locations around the country as necessary. And these are people who will be trained and able to physically count how many ballots are coming in. And how many ballots are going out.”

What about this part of the comments by Psycho Lara?
"Trained poll watchers at locations." Sounds like Brown Shirt Nazis standing around, and their whole purpose there is to intimidate people who just want to vote in peace.

Have you ever been a poll watcher?

[ProudModerate2]

... “And then come Election Day, and you’ll see that, I think, it’s not just about having poll watchers. It’s about having trained poll watchers and lawyers at locations around the country as necessary. And these are people who will be trained and able to physically count how many ballots are coming in. And how many ballots are going out.”

What about this part of the comments by Psycho Lara?
"Trained poll watchers at locations." Sounds like Brown Shirt Nazis standing around, and their whole purpose there is to intimidate people who just want to vote in peace.

Have you ever been a poll watcher?

I assure you, there are never poll watchers counting people going in and out of a polling location.
That is intimidation, and all based on wacked-out, conspiracy lunacy.

[Fuzzy Bear]

... “And then come Election Day, and you’ll see that, I think, it’s not just about having poll watchers. It’s about having trained poll watchers and lawyers at locations around the country as necessary. And these are people who will be trained and able to physically count how many ballots are coming in. And how many ballots are going out.”

What about this part of the comments by Psycho Lara?
"Trained poll watchers at locations." Sounds like Brown Shirt Nazis standing around, and their whole purpose there is to intimidate people who just want to vote in peace.

Have you ever been a poll watcher?

I assure you, there are never poll watchers counting people going in and out of a polling location.
That is intimidation, and all based on wacked-out, conspiracy lunacy.

But you never objected to THIS intimidation by "Poll Watchers" from Black Panthers in Philadelphia on behalf of Obama:

Two members of the New Black Panther Party, Minister King Samir Shabazz, and Jerry Jackson, stood in front of the entrance to the polling station in uniforms that have been described as military or paramilitary.[5][6] Minister King Samir Shabazz carried a billy club, and is reported to have pointed it at voters while both men shouted racial slurs,[7] including phrases such as "white devil" and "you're about to be ruled by the black man, cracker."[8]

In response to this controversy, the New Black Panther Party suspended its Philadelphia chapter and repudiated Minister King Shabazz in a posting at its website.[18] The party stated that Shabazz made "an honest error" by bringing a billy club to the polling station and that because of his doing so he had been suspended from the New Black Panther Party until January 2010.[19]

In December 2010, the Civil Rights Commission released a report concluding that their investigations had uncovered "numerous specific examples of open hostility and opposition" within the Department of Justice to pursuing cases in which whites were the victims. The report accused the Department of Justice of failing to cooperate with investigations into its reason for dropping the case, stating "While the department has issued general statements that it enforces the laws without regard to race, these assurances do not confirm, deny or explain the specific allegations of misconduct […] Unfortunately, the department has thus far refused to address many of these specific claims or to provide the type of information that would allow the commission to properly review the decision making relating to the NBPP lawsuit."[33][34]

Either the above is not "poll watching", or it's the most recent example of what you fear actually happened.  Not by the Orange Cheetoh.  Not by Christian Nationalists.  But by the New Black Panther Party on behalf of Barack Obama.

Do you condemn these folks as the Brown Shirts you were just ranting about?  That's a simple question, because you raised the issue.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I assure you, there are never poll watchers counting people going in and out of a polling location.
That is intimidation, and all based on wacked-out, conspiracy lunacy.

That happens all the time.  Parties appoint Poll Watchers and Poll Challengers to note the turnout, bring about enforcement of election laws and rules when one side abuses them, and report irregularities in progress for possible legal remedies.  When machines break down; it's TRAINED poll watchers that know this is a big deal that place the call in that get extra voting hours when an emergency happens, and ensures that all on line at closing time at a polling place are allowed to cast their ballot. 

Poll Challengers are there to put an on-site challenge to a potentially fraudulent voter.  This isn't something new; it goes back to the 1970s and before that in NY.  And I know; I was part of that scene once.  Poll Watchers who are trained know that if there is a challenge to a voter's legitimacy, that they are afforded the opportunity to cast a Provisional Ballot and not just be turned away; that's the "training" part.  And, yes, Poll Challengers have a right, on-site, to challenge signatures.  Poll watchers and challengers have the right to obtain information and pass on information as to how many voters actually voted in person on election day.  They have the right and the ability to seek enforcement of regulations against undue electioneering (let alone intimidation) on the grounds of a polling place.

These tasks require training.  Some states (like NY) have a Democrat and a Republican occupying every position there is at the Boards of Elections, but some state have one party serving as supervisor of elections.  This is where Poll Watchers and Poll Challengers come in.  And even in NY with poll workers from each major party, the dominant party often had the most boisterous poll workers and lawful pushback is required for simple fairness.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Ballot harvesting is not shady unless you don't follow the rules (like setting up illegal drop boxes for vote collection like Republicans have done). Overall it sounds like the strategy is to challenge every vote not for Trump and make voting more difficult.

I could post a thousand links showing the contrary but this one should suffice:
7 Elections Reversed After Ballot Harvesting Scandals

It IS shady and just way too easy to abuse. But anyway, you are not going to agree so I really hope the RNC strategy involves republicans collecting ballots at churches, landlords/bosses blackmailing their tenants/workers for their votes, and canvassers coercing or bribing the homeless/addicts/mentally unstable to vote their way (very real examples that actually happened at a large enough scale to swing elections per the article) all leading to Trump winning by a narrow margin. Maybe that'll actually get dems to reconsider.

All those examples are election fraud. I'm talking about allowing an authorized party to return signed and sealed ballots with a voter signature plus an authorized return agent stipulated on the envelope.

You complain that ballot harvesting is a problem, yet you say that you hope Trump wins by fraud. You aren't joking. Some of you all have lost your rabid ass minds.

Ballot Harvesting is a Bad Idea whose time has come.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

... “And then come Election Day, and you’ll see that, I think, it’s not just about having poll watchers. It’s about having trained poll watchers and lawyers at locations around the country as necessary. And these are people who will be trained and able to physically count how many ballots are coming in. And how many ballots are going out.”

What about this part of the comments by Psycho Lara?
"Trained poll watchers at locations." Sounds like Brown Shirt Nazis standing around, and their whole purpose there is to intimidate people who just want to vote in peace.

Have you ever been a poll watcher?

I assure you, there are never poll watchers counting people going in and out of a polling location.
That is intimidation, and all based on wacked-out, conspiracy lunacy.

Nothing is more intimidating than some elderly grandmothers in red white and blue tshirts showing up!

[Ferguson97]

Ballot Harvesting is a Bad Idea whose time has come.

Why?

[Del Tachi]

... “And then come Election Day, and you’ll see that, I think, it’s not just about having poll watchers. It’s about having trained poll watchers and lawyers at locations around the country as necessary. And these are people who will be trained and able to physically count how many ballots are coming in. And how many ballots are going out.”

What about this part of the comments by Psycho Lara?
"Trained poll watchers at locations." Sounds like Brown Shirt Nazis standing around, and their whole purpose there is to intimidate people who just want to vote in peace.

Have you ever been a poll watcher?

I assure you, there are never poll watchers counting people going in and out of a polling location.
That is intimidation, and all based on wacked-out, conspiracy lunacy.

The ability for partisans to observe the casting and counting of ballots is a very basic democratic principle.

[Del Tachi]

Ballot Harvesting is a Bad Idea whose time has come.

Why?

Ballot harvesting is bad because the groups that engage in ballot harvesting are partisan.  Voting in sacrosanct.  A fair ballot is one conducted in private, free from undue influence.  There is simply too much room for intimidation when people are allowed to cast/collect ballots outside of the public’s eye.

[Ferguson97]

Ballot Harvesting is a Bad Idea whose time has come.

Why?

Ballot harvesting is bad because the groups that engage in ballot harvesting are partisan.  Voting in sacrosanct.  A fair ballot is one conducted in private, free from undue influence.  There is simply too much room for intimidation when people are allowed to cast/collect ballots outside of the public’s eye.

No one has their ballot harvested against their will. If they're not comfortable with it, they don't have to do it.

[Del Tachi]

Ballot Harvesting is a Bad Idea whose time has come.

Why?

Ballot harvesting is bad because the groups that engage in ballot harvesting are partisan.  Voting in sacrosanct.  A fair ballot is one conducted in private, free from undue influence.  There is simply too much room for intimidation when people are allowed to cast/collect ballots outside of the public’s eye.

No one has their ballot harvested against their will. If they're not comfortable with it, they don't have to do it.

In theory, yes.  But this response is the rhetorical equivalent of covering your ears and yelling “na na na” in an attempt to ignore reality.

In the real world, it’s described as ballot harvesting for a reason.  The idea is that there’s this abundance of Democrat votes out there waiting to be got.  It just so happens that the location of this wealth corresponds to the segment of the electorate most open to suggestion:  the elderly, ESL speakers, the poor, etc.  Interpret this as you want.   

[Ferguson97]

Ballot Harvesting is a Bad Idea whose time has come.

Why?

Ballot harvesting is bad because the groups that engage in ballot harvesting are partisan.  Voting in sacrosanct.  A fair ballot is one conducted in private, free from undue influence.  There is simply too much room for intimidation when people are allowed to cast/collect ballots outside of the public’s eye.

No one has their ballot harvested against their will. If they're not comfortable with it, they don't have to do it.

In theory, yes.  But this response is the rhetorical equivalent of covering your ears and yelling “na na na” in an attempt to ignore reality.

In the real world, it’s described as ballot harvesting for a reason.  The idea is that there’s this abundance of Democrat votes out there waiting to be got.  It just so happens that the location of this wealth corresponds to the segment of the electorate most open to suggestion:  the elderly, ESL speakers, the poor, etc.  Interpret this as you want.   

If you have any evidence that this practice results in heavy intimidation of these groups to fill in the bubble for Democrats, then you are more than welcome to present it. But until that happens, you're just speculating.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I assure you, there are never poll watchers counting people going in and out of a polling location.
That is intimidation, and all based on wacked-out, conspiracy lunacy.

That happens all the time.  Parties appoint Poll Watchers and Poll Challengers to note the turnout, bring about enforcement of election laws and rules when one side abuses them, and report irregularities in progress for possible legal remedies.  When machines break down; it's TRAINED poll watchers that know this is a big deal that place the call in that get extra voting hours when an emergency happens, and ensures that all on line at closing time at a polling place are allowed to cast their ballot. 

Poll Challengers are there to put an on-site challenge to a potentially fraudulent voter.  This isn't something new; it goes back to the 1970s and before that in NY.  And I know; I was part of that scene once.  Poll Watchers who are trained know that if there is a challenge to a voter's legitimacy, that they are afforded the opportunity to cast a Provisional Ballot and not just be turned away; that's the "training" part.  And, yes, Poll Challengers have a right, on-site, to challenge signatures.  Poll watchers and challengers have the right to obtain information and pass on information as to how many voters actually voted in person on election day.  They have the right and the ability to seek enforcement of regulations against undue electioneering (let alone intimidation) on the grounds of a polling place.

These tasks require training.  Some states (like NY) have a Democrat and a Republican occupying every position there is at the Boards of Elections, but some state have one party serving as supervisor of elections.  This is where Poll Watchers and Poll Challengers come in.  And even in NY with poll workers from each major party, the dominant party often had the most boisterous poll workers and lawful pushback is required for simple fairness.

Fuzzy is on point here.

While the exact details vary by state, US States allow observers at voting locations, and such observers ought to be trained to know what their job is, and what powers, restrictions, and responsibilities they have.

This is objectively a good thing. It's part of how we keep our elections honest, and part of why we know Trump's claims about the 2020 election were lies. The role of observer can  be abused, but legitimate political observers are a widespread and integral part of how America votes.

Whether observers trained by the MAGA National Committee would do their duty honestly remains to be seen. (If I had to bet, my money would be on: most of the money for the program gets siphoned off to Trumpworld, and the end result is to deploy small numbers of people who don't know what they're doing, and then go on to prove that, loudly and at length.)

[7,052,770]

There's an abundance of Democratic, Republican, and 3rd Party votes out there "waiting to be got." In a perfect world, we would be like Australia and require 100% voter turnout and run our elections entirely based on persuasion, but in the meantime, each party should do everything it can to get all the votes they can possibly get.

[Mr. Matt]

Hmm, I thought after 2020 a bunch of red states would have passed laws restricting ballot harvesting, thus biting this initiative in the butt, but really only a few have: link

NJ restricts the number of ballots you can collect to 3, and that was a pretty recent change, but there wasn't a right-wing impetus to that change.

[Badger]

... “And then come Election Day, and you’ll see that, I think, it’s not just about having poll watchers. It’s about having trained poll watchers and lawyers at locations around the country as necessary. And these are people who will be trained and able to physically count how many ballots are coming in. And how many ballots are going out.”

What about this part of the comments by Psycho Lara?
"Trained poll watchers at locations." Sounds like Brown Shirt Nazis standing around, and their whole purpose there is to intimidate people who just want to vote in peace.

Have you ever been a poll watcher?

I assure you, there are never poll watchers counting people going in and out of a polling location.
That is intimidation, and all based on wacked-out, conspiracy lunacy.

But you never objected to THIS intimidation by "Poll Watchers" from Black Panthers in Philadelphia on behalf of Obama:

Two members of the New Black Panther Party, Minister King Samir Shabazz, and Jerry Jackson, stood in front of the entrance to the polling station in uniforms that have been described as military or paramilitary.[5][6] Minister King Samir Shabazz carried a billy club, and is reported to have pointed it at voters while both men shouted racial slurs,[7] including phrases such as "white devil" and "you're about to be ruled by the black man, cracker."[8]

In response to this controversy, the New Black Panther Party suspended its Philadelphia chapter and repudiated Minister King Shabazz in a posting at its website.[18] The party stated that Shabazz made "an honest error" by bringing a billy club to the polling station and that because of his doing so he had been suspended from the New Black Panther Party until January 2010.[19]

In December 2010, the Civil Rights Commission released a report concluding that their investigations had uncovered "numerous specific examples of open hostility and opposition" within the Department of Justice to pursuing cases in which whites were the victims. The report accused the Department of Justice of failing to cooperate with investigations into its reason for dropping the case, stating "While the department has issued general statements that it enforces the laws without regard to race, these assurances do not confirm, deny or explain the specific allegations of misconduct […] Unfortunately, the department has thus far refused to address many of these specific claims or to provide the type of information that would allow the commission to properly review the decision making relating to the NBPP lawsuit."[33][34]

Either the above is not "poll watching", or it's the most recent example of what you fear actually happened.  Not by the Orange Cheetoh.  Not by Christian Nationalists.  But by the New Black Panther Party on behalf of Barack Obama.

Do you condemn these folks as the Brown Shirts you were just ranting about?  That's a simple question, because you raised the issue.

Lolololol! Not only did pretty much every single red Avatar or other leftist on the site and in the real world condemn this, but the fact you're going back 16 full years to try to find the only recorded instance of black on white voter intimidation probably in our country's history is beyond pathetic.

 State and local governments and Republican organizations engaging in ballot fraud and intimidation on a regular basis for decades- fuzzy shrugs. One group of jackasses engage in arguably illegal behavior - which again neither I nor any other Progressive under the sun disagrees with - and the old white racist Boomer is scarred for life and truly believes voter intimidation is a both sides issue between the races. LOL LOL

[Badger]

Ballot harvesting is not shady unless you don't follow the rules (like setting up illegal drop boxes for vote collection like Republicans have done). Overall it sounds like the strategy is to challenge every vote not for Trump and make voting more difficult.

I could post a thousand links showing the contrary but this one should suffice:
7 Elections Reversed After Ballot Harvesting Scandals

It IS shady and just way too easy to abuse. But anyway, you are not going to agree so I really hope the RNC strategy involves republicans collecting ballots at churches, landlords/bosses blackmailing their tenants/workers for their votes, and canvassers coercing or bribing the homeless/addicts/mentally unstable to vote their way (very real examples that actually happened at a large enough scale to swing elections per the article) all leading to Trump winning by a narrow margin. Maybe that'll actually get dems to reconsider.

All those examples are election fraud. I'm talking about allowing an authorized party to return signed and sealed ballots with a voter signature plus an authorized return agent stipulated on the envelope.

You complain that ballot harvesting is a problem, yet you say that you hope Trump wins by fraud. You aren't joking. Some of you all have lost your rabid ass minds.

Ballot Harvesting is a Bad Idea whose time has come.

The only apparent difference from your opposition less than a year ago being that now Republicans have embraced the idea. How morally consistent of you!