Trump told Orban he will abandon Ukraine and Europe as a whole if re-elected

[The Free North]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

It's such a shame that Reagan's corpse can't rise from the grave and smack all you Putin simps in the head.

A European

To be fair, if Reagan were alive today I have my doubts he would treat Putin's Russia the way he did the USSR.

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

I think eastern Ukraine is a lost cause but western Ukraine can still be preserved.

[Arizona Iced Tea]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

I think eastern Ukraine is a lost cause but western Ukraine can still be preserved.

Putin will never let Ukraine join NATO in any shape way or form. He might not want to cease western Ukraine the same way as Crimea or the Donbas though.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine

Think you might be missing someone.

[Progressive Pessimist]

If only Americans were capable of understanding what risking much of Europe would mean for us.

[Fuzzy Bear]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Hitler. Resources spent in Czechoslovakia can be better used ensuring Hitler doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Chamberlain and Daladier failed to prevent Germany from taking over Czechoslovakia but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

The two situations are not identical.

We have an interest in checking naked aggression.  I have heard the arguments, some from reasonable and honest posters like KaiserDave, and some like flat-out hacks like Hindsight was 2020.  I fail to see why seeking a negotiated peace is not the solution for Ukraine when people are demanding a Cease Fire in Gaza.  If I believed we could drive Russia from every inch of Ukraine, and take back Crimea to boot, that would be one thing, but that's not likely to happen, even if we go "all in".

[Hindsight was 2020]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Hitler. Resources spent in Czechoslovakia can be better used ensuring Hitler doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Chamberlain and Daladier failed to prevent Germany from taking over Czechoslovakia but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

The two situations are not identical.

We have an interest in checking naked aggression.  I have heard the arguments, some from reasonable and honest posters like KaiserDave, and some like flat-out hacks like Hindsight was 2020.  I fail to see why seeking a negotiated peace is not the solution for Ukraine when people are demanding a Cease Fire in Gaza.  If I believed we could drive Russia from every inch of Ukraine, and take back Crimea to boot, that would be one thing, but that's not likely to happen, even if we go "all in".

Not comparable situations for one Israel isn’t trying to formally annex Gaza (yet at least god knows with Bibi) also the calls for a ceasefire put the onus on Israel (aggressor) while in Ukraine you guys are advocating positions of victim blaming and awarding the aggressor (Russia).

[Liminal Trans Girl]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

I think eastern Ukraine is a lost cause but western Ukraine can still be preserved.

Putin will never let Ukraine join NATO in any shape way or form. He might not want to cease western Ukraine the same way as Crimea or the Donbas though.

Okay Neville

[Yoda]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

After Ukraine falls, you'll use that same argument not to help the next country Putin invades.

I would hope we start enrolling them in NATO asap. Russia would never touch a NATO country because it would be a suicide mission.

If Putin ever did attack a NATO country you Putin simps will simply switch to saying, "Well we can't get involved b/c that would risk nuclear war." You bunch are nothing if not predictable.

[T'Chenka]

If Putin ever did attack a NATO country you Putin simps will simply switch to saying, "Well we can't get involved b/c that would risk nuclear war." You bunch are nothing if not predictable.

The one thing that frustrates me to an insane degree these days is the majority of left and center-left people laying out their positions in good faith and then MOSTLY sticking to them for the most part through thick or thin (which shows that they actually believe in them ideologically / morally) and then Republicans just constantly flip-flopping on their positions because a lot of them are being presented in bad faith to hide uglier / less palatable actual beliefs underneath.

This happens ALL THE TIME and a lot of people realize it. Certainly, the mainstream media that covers this stuff has realized it by now. Yet, we all play this stupid game where we pretend that Republicans should be taken seriously and that they are being honest until proven otherwise. It's bulls__t. The GOP and their staunch supporters have consistently demonstrated that a lot of the time, they don't really believe in what they advocate for, and they aren't being 100% honest. SO TREAT THEM AS SUCH. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. If they truly believe in something, give them the opportunity to prove it, sure.

"The Republicans have equally valid points too and we should hear them out" shouldn't fly anymore until they can demonstrate that they deserve to be treated in that way.

[Fuzzy Bear]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Hitler. Resources spent in Czechoslovakia can be better used ensuring Hitler doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Chamberlain and Daladier failed to prevent Germany from taking over Czechoslovakia but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

The two situations are not identical.

We have an interest in checking naked aggression.  I have heard the arguments, some from reasonable and honest posters like KaiserDave, and some like flat-out hacks like Hindsight was 2020.  I fail to see why seeking a negotiated peace is not the solution for Ukraine when people are demanding a Cease Fire in Gaza.  If I believed we could drive Russia from every inch of Ukraine, and take back Crimea to boot, that would be one thing, but that's not likely to happen, even if we go "all in".

Not comparable situations for one Israel isn’t trying to formally annex Gaza (yet at least god knows with Bibi) also the calls for a ceasefire put the onus on Israel (aggressor) while in Ukraine you guys are advocating positions of victim blaming and awarding the aggressor (Russia).

I don't blame Ukraine for the current war, and I do believe that it's in our interest to respond to such aggression.  Putin's invasion cancelled out whatever virtue his arguments regarding NATO expansion, Western sponsorship of the coup that ousted a lawfully elected Ukrainian President, etc. may have had.  There's no excuse for the invasion.

But there's no reason not to seek a negotiated peace.  Unless, of course, we wish to make this conflict into WWIII.  We may well be able to win WWIII.  What kind of peace would there be afterward?  That's a fair question.  And the longer we wait to seek a negotiated peace, the stronger Russia's position would be.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Maybe it was just a form of locker room talk?

[Inmate Trump]

This is insane.

If Trump is reelected America will abandon its current allies, and become allies with Russia. Republican voters are already there, as evidenced by Arizona Iced Tea’s terrible comments here.

If this was the 1930s and 40s these people would be backing Hitler.

[Hindsight was 2020]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Hitler. Resources spent in Czechoslovakia can be better used ensuring Hitler doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Chamberlain and Daladier failed to prevent Germany from taking over Czechoslovakia but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

The two situations are not identical.

We have an interest in checking naked aggression.  I have heard the arguments, some from reasonable and honest posters like KaiserDave, and some like flat-out hacks like Hindsight was 2020.  I fail to see why seeking a negotiated peace is not the solution for Ukraine when people are demanding a Cease Fire in Gaza.  If I believed we could drive Russia from every inch of Ukraine, and take back Crimea to boot, that would be one thing, but that's not likely to happen, even if we go "all in".

Not comparable situations for one Israel isn’t trying to formally annex Gaza (yet at least god knows with Bibi) also the calls for a ceasefire put the onus on Israel (aggressor) while in Ukraine you guys are advocating positions of victim blaming and awarding the aggressor (Russia).

I don't blame Ukraine for the current war, and I do believe that it's in our interest to respond to such aggression.  Putin's invasion cancelled out whatever virtue his arguments regarding NATO expansion, Western sponsorship of the coup that ousted a lawfully elected Ukrainian President, etc. may have had.  There's no excuse for the invasion.

But there's no reason not to seek a negotiated peace.  Unless, of course, we wish to make this conflict into WWIII.  We may well be able to win WWIII.  What kind of peace would there be afterward?  That's a fair question.  And the longer we wait to seek a negotiated peace, the stronger Russia's position would be.

Again why do people like you who go on and on about a negotiated peace duck the fact Russia current demands for any agreement is Ukrainian capitulation? I’ve constantly raised the fact that Russia is currently demanding that Ukraine hand over major cities they control to Russia, the mass resignation of the current Ukrainian government and a 200k hard cap on their military size, only for these facts to get ducked for this continued call for peace like Ukraine is the unreasonable party that needs to be brought to the table?!

[MasterJedi]

This is insane.

If Trump is reelected America will abandon its current allies, and become allies with Russia. Republican voters are already there, as evidenced by Arizona Iced Tea’s terrible comments here.

If this was the 1930s and 40s these people would be backing Hitler.

Good ole Judas, no wonder why all the holy roller fake Christians love him as their God King so much. America First means “America Alone Falls”.

[It’s so Joever]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Hitler. Resources spent in Czechoslovakia can be better used ensuring Hitler doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Chamberlain and Daladier failed to prevent Germany from taking over Czechoslovakia but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

The two situations are not identical.

We have an interest in checking naked aggression.  I have heard the arguments, some from reasonable and honest posters like KaiserDave, and some like flat-out hacks like Hindsight was 2020.  I fail to see why seeking a negotiated peace is not the solution for Ukraine when people are demanding a Cease Fire in Gaza.  If I believed we could drive Russia from every inch of Ukraine, and take back Crimea to boot, that would be one thing, but that's not likely to happen, even if we go "all in".

Not comparable situations for one Israel isn’t trying to formally annex Gaza (yet at least god knows with Bibi) also the calls for a ceasefire put the onus on Israel (aggressor) while in Ukraine you guys are advocating positions of victim blaming and awarding the aggressor (Russia).

I don't blame Ukraine for the current war, and I do believe that it's in our interest to respond to such aggression.  Putin's invasion cancelled out whatever virtue his arguments regarding NATO expansion, Western sponsorship of the coup that ousted a lawfully elected Ukrainian President, etc. may have had.  There's no excuse for the invasion.

But there's no reason not to seek a negotiated peace.  Unless, of course, we wish to make this conflict into WWIII.  We may well be able to win WWIII.  What kind of peace would there be afterward?  That's a fair question.  And the longer we wait to seek a negotiated peace, the stronger Russia's position would be.

This can be true in private but publicly going out with this stance in negotiations makes us look weak and tells Russia they can call a bluff for more concessions on this. You have praised Trump for using hardline rhetoric against North Korea early on to get better terms (which didn’t hold btw but that’s another story) Why do you not see how this is similar here?

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Hitler. Resources spent in Czechoslovakia can be better used ensuring Hitler doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Chamberlain and Daladier failed to prevent Germany from taking over Czechoslovakia but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

The two situations are not identical.

We have an interest in checking naked aggression.  I have heard the arguments, some from reasonable and honest posters like KaiserDave, and some like flat-out hacks like Hindsight was 2020.  I fail to see why seeking a negotiated peace is not the solution for Ukraine when people are demanding a Cease Fire in Gaza.  If I believed we could drive Russia from every inch of Ukraine, and take back Crimea to boot, that would be one thing, but that's not likely to happen, even if we go "all in".

Not comparable situations for one Israel isn’t trying to formally annex Gaza (yet at least god knows with Bibi) also the calls for a ceasefire put the onus on Israel (aggressor) while in Ukraine you guys are advocating positions of victim blaming and awarding the aggressor (Russia).

I don't blame Ukraine for the current war, and I do believe that it's in our interest to respond to such aggression.  Putin's invasion cancelled out whatever virtue his arguments regarding NATO expansion, Western sponsorship of the coup that ousted a lawfully elected Ukrainian President, etc. may have had.  There's no excuse for the invasion.

But there's no reason not to seek a negotiated peace.  Unless, of course, we wish to make this conflict into WWIII.  We may well be able to win WWIII.  What kind of peace would there be afterward?  That's a fair question.  And the longer we wait to seek a negotiated peace, the stronger Russia's position would be.

Not necessarily referring to you, but I frequently find myself seeing "WWIII" invoked by people who don't want us sending any supplies or equipment to Ukraine. So I must ask, exactly who are the pro-Ukraine people advocating for nukes? The other question I have is what terms the negotiated peace should look like, because some (Vivek Ramaswamy comes to mind) literally endorsed recognizing Russia's illegal annexation of Ukraine's southeastern oblasts as part of a peace deal - as if they would even consider stopping there and not marching into the rest of Ukraine and then eventually Poland. Putin already showed himself as a thug in 2008 when he (successfully!) invaded Georgia. So in short: any negotiated peace deal that gives Russia license to obtain even more lebensraum will not make Russia weaker.

As for Gaza, millions of Palestinians have been displaced and there is little elsewhere to go. I don't speak for the fringe wackos who want Israel to surrender unconditionally, but a ceasefire is necessary at this point, frankly, just to keep Gaza from turning into a pit of dust and ash when all is said and done. Hamas has no chance of defeating one of the world's greatest militaries, and all the focus on the main objective of the war - that is, thorough removal of Hamas from public life - has been tossed by the wayside with dozens of hundreds of thousands civilian deaths.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

This is insane.

If Trump is reelected America will abandon its current allies, and become allies with Russia. Republican voters are already there, as evidenced by Arizona Iced Tea’s terrible comments here.

If this was the 1930s and 40s these people would be backing Hitler.

I don't think we will partner with Russia, but we will be isolated if MAGA gets their way. In their delusional dream world, we pull out of NATO, close our bases around the world and let our former allies fend for themselves. How MAGA doesn't understand how weak that would make this country is bizarre to me, but I know all they need to hear is Trump telling them it will make us "strong" and that's enough.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Again why do people like you who go on and on about a negotiated peace duck the fact Russia current demands for any agreement is Ukrainian capitulation? I’ve constantly raised the fact that Russia is currently demanding that Ukraine hand over major cities they control to Russia, the mass resignation of the current Ukrainian government and a 200k hard cap on their military size, only for these facts to get ducked for this continued call for peace like Ukraine is the unreasonable party that needs to be brought to the table?!

Because true believers like fuzzy just regurgitate whatever their lord savior Donald says without ever putting their brains in use.

[gerritcole]

Perhaps the GOPs new foreign policy is to ally with Russia against China a la sino soviet split and the cost of that is Eastern Europe

[BlueSwan]

If this was the 1930s and 40s these people would be backing Hitler.

Absolutely. There’s a reason why we regard the MAGA cult as fascist.

[Ferguson97]

Putin will never let Ukraine join NATO in any shape way or form.

Good thing it's not up to him.

[Hindsight was 2020]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Hitler. Resources spent in Czechoslovakia can be better used ensuring Hitler doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Chamberlain and Daladier failed to prevent Germany from taking over Czechoslovakia but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

The two situations are not identical.

We have an interest in checking naked aggression.  I have heard the arguments, some from reasonable and honest posters like KaiserDave, and some like flat-out hacks like Hindsight was 2020.  I fail to see why seeking a negotiated peace is not the solution for Ukraine when people are demanding a Cease Fire in Gaza.  If I believed we could drive Russia from every inch of Ukraine, and take back Crimea to boot, that would be one thing, but that's not likely to happen, even if we go "all in".

Not comparable situations for one Israel isn’t trying to formally annex Gaza (yet at least god knows with Bibi) also the calls for a ceasefire put the onus on Israel (aggressor) while in Ukraine you guys are advocating positions of victim blaming and awarding the aggressor (Russia).

I don't blame Ukraine for the current war, and I do believe that it's in our interest to respond to such aggression.  Putin's invasion cancelled out whatever virtue his arguments regarding NATO expansion, Western sponsorship of the coup that ousted a lawfully elected Ukrainian President, etc. may have had.  There's no excuse for the invasion.

But there's no reason not to seek a negotiated peace.  Unless, of course, we wish to make this conflict into WWIII.  We may well be able to win WWIII.  What kind of peace would there be afterward?  That's a fair question.  And the longer we wait to seek a negotiated peace, the stronger Russia's position would be.

This can be true in private but publicly going out with this stance in negotiations makes us look weak and tells Russia they can call a bluff for more concessions on this. You have praised Trump for using hardline rhetoric against North Korea early on to get better terms (which didn’t hold btw but that’s another story) Why do you not see how this is similar here?

Straight from the devils mouth
https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1767824155108311284

[Sirius_]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

I think eastern Ukraine is a lost cause but western Ukraine can still be preserved.

Putin will never let Ukraine join NATO in any shape way or form. He might not want to cease western Ukraine the same way as Crimea or the Donbas though.

Ukraine was already a legally neutral country before. If it joins NATO it will be entirely due to Russian provocation.

[Yoda]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Hitler. Resources spent in Czechoslovakia can be better used ensuring Hitler doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Chamberlain and Daladier failed to prevent Germany from taking over Czechoslovakia but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

The two situations are not identical.

We have an interest in checking naked aggression.  I have heard the arguments, some from reasonable and honest posters like KaiserDave, and some like flat-out hacks like Hindsight was 2020.  I fail to see why seeking a negotiated peace is not the solution for Ukraine when people are demanding a Cease Fire in Gaza.  If I believed we could drive Russia from every inch of Ukraine, and take back Crimea to boot, that would be one thing, but that's not likely to happen, even if we go "all in".

Not comparable situations for one Israel isn’t trying to formally annex Gaza (yet at least god knows with Bibi) also the calls for a ceasefire put the onus on Israel (aggressor) while in Ukraine you guys are advocating positions of victim blaming and awarding the aggressor (Russia).

I don't blame Ukraine for the current war, and I do believe that it's in our interest to respond to such aggression.  Putin's invasion cancelled out whatever virtue his arguments regarding NATO expansion, Western sponsorship of the coup that ousted a lawfully elected Ukrainian President, etc. may have had.  There's no excuse for the invasion.

But there's no reason not to seek a negotiated peace.  Unless, of course, we wish to make this conflict into WWIII.  We may well be able to win WWIII.  What kind of peace would there be afterward?  That's a fair question.  And the longer we wait to seek a negotiated peace, the stronger Russia's position would be.

This can be true in private but publicly going out with this stance in negotiations makes us look weak and tells Russia they can call a bluff for more concessions on this. You have praised Trump for using hardline rhetoric against North Korea early on to get better terms (which didn’t hold btw but that’s another story) Why do you not see how this is similar here?

Straight from the devils mouth
https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1767824155108311284

B-b-but we were told by Very Serious Smart Blue Avatars that cutting off aid would lead to peace negotiations!

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

Beating Putin in Ukraine is literally the best use of resources to prevent Putin encroaching on the rest of Europe lol. What transparent bad faith logic you guys deal in

Except Putin will not be defeated barring a US invasion which will not happen. Aid will stalemate for a longer time but it will only lead to more death and destruction.

Are you going to sit here and tell me that the Putin simps were wrong!?!? That cutting off aid will only embolden Russia to press their advantage and kill more Ukrainian civilians and kidnap more Ukrainian children? What are you going to tell me next? That donald trump has no respect for democracy or the rule of law?