Is Joe Biden the best US President since LBJ?

[Flats the Flounder]

Obama was better than Biden, honestly

Biden is more effective and much better on foreign policy

They're similar on foreign policy, I'll grant you that Biden is better at working with Congress than Obama was. It's mainly on domestic/economic policies where I think Obama did better.

I don't think they're that similar honestly. Compare how Biden handled Russia's invasion of Ukraine to how Obama handled Crimea in 2014. Also, in general Biden's foreign policy has been more coherent, and in general less flawed than Obama's was.

Frankly, I don't think any president has had a good foreign policy record since maybe Clinton. Biden did handle Ukraine well, but he's also handled Afghanistan and Israel-Palestine poorly in my opinion. Obama also had some foreign policy successes. The Iran deal and Cuba thaw were I think genuinely good policies that were marred by the Trump administration, and of course, the killing of Osama bin Laden was a major triumph.

In terms of Domestic/Economic Policy, I agree Obama had a deeper hole to dig the country out of economically, and to his credit he did keep it from getting worse, but the recovery was, until his 2nd term, weak and in general was very uneven. 

Biden's has been pretty uneven too. Inflation is still really high even in 2024, and although unemployment is low, real weekly earnings have declined generally. https://www.factcheck.org/2024/01/bidens-numbers-january-2024-update/

I do think given the majorities he had in 2009-10, he could've accomplished more than he did, whereas if Biden had anything close to Supermajorities in 2021-22, we'd have a modern New Deal or Great Society today.

The fact that Obama didn't achieve as much with a larger Congress I think was more down to his weakness in dealing with Congress, which I admit is a weak point for him compared to Biden. But for someone who hadn't even finished a single term in the Senate, it's pretty damn impressive what he did manage to pass. He managed to pass comprehensive health care reform, something that had been the white whale for multiple presidents before him, and it's lasted. Of course, I would have preferred universal healthcare, but what I think he managed to do the most he could in a pre-Occupy political climate.

I want to make it clear before I say this that I think Obama and Biden are good presidents, but I don't find Biden's achievements quite as impressive considering that when he took office, the political climate was much more welcoming to progressive policies than when Obama was in charge. Because of that, along with the tacit pressure put on Congress to cooperate with the president during a national crisis, I think stuff like the American Rescue Plan could have really been passed by any Democratic president. 

[Ferguson97]

the modern left's love affair with this asshole is always funny to me

I don't think it should really be a surprise that the left likes the Civil Rights and Great Society president.

[dead0man]

the modern left's love affair with this asshole is always funny to me

I don't think it should really be a surprise that the left likes the Civil Rights and Great Society president.

if that was his only actions you'd have an excellent point, but you know there is more to him than that.  Lefties of the time knew. For some reason, hundreds of thousands of dead brown men, women and children doesn't matter to modern lefties because you don't have any problem hand waving those deaths away.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

the modern left's love affair with this asshole is always funny to me

I don't think it should really be a surprise that the left likes the Civil Rights and Great Society president.

if that was his only actions you'd have an excellent point, but you know there is more to him than that.  Lefties of the time knew. For some reason, hundreds of thousands of dead brown men, women and children doesn't matter to modern lefties because you don't have any problem hand waving those deaths away.

I'm sure you would have loved living in the 1960s given that until the Tet Offensive 80-85%  of Americans supported the Vietnam War.

[dead0man]

the modern left's love affair with this asshole is always funny to me

I don't think it should really be a surprise that the left likes the Civil Rights and Great Society president.

if that was his only actions you'd have an excellent point, but you know there is more to him than that.  Lefties of the time knew. For some reason, hundreds of thousands of dead brown men, women and children doesn't matter to modern lefties because you don't have any problem hand waving those deaths away.

I'm sure you would have loved living in the 1960s given that until the Tet Offensive 80-85%  of Americans supported the Vietnam War.

what about my post makes you think I would have supported the Vietnam War?  And I'm smart enough to know I'd greatly miss all the art, medicine, science and consumer good that has been created in the last 60 years, so I have zero desire to go back in time.  Gross.  That's for the ignorant and the dumb.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

the modern left's love affair with this asshole is always funny to me

I don't think it should really be a surprise that the left likes the Civil Rights and Great Society president.

if that was his only actions you'd have an excellent point, but you know there is more to him than that.  Lefties of the time knew. For some reason, hundreds of thousands of dead brown men, women and children doesn't matter to modern lefties because you don't have any problem hand waving those deaths away.

I'm sure you would have loved living in the 1960s given that until the Tet Offensive 80-85%  of Americans supported the Vietnam War.

what about my post makes you think I would have supported the Vietnam War?  And I'm smart enough to know I'd greatly miss all the art, medicine, science and consumer good that has been created in the last 60 years, so I have zero desire to go back in time.  Gross.  That's for the ignorant and the dumb.

I was being sarcastic.

Sorry, I thought you would have realized.

[VBM]

Ronald Reagan gets that honor and he’s better than LBJ too

You should be a stand up comedian.

Many Americans agree with him

A quarter of Americans believe the Sun revolves around the Earth.

[LBJer]

the modern left's love affair with this asshole is always funny to me

I don't think it should really be a surprise that the left likes the Civil Rights and Great Society president.

if that was his only actions you'd have an excellent point, but you know there is more to him than that.  Lefties of the time knew. For some reason, hundreds of thousands of dead brown men, women and children doesn't matter to modern lefties because you don't have any problem hand waving those deaths away.

Straw man.  It's not a matter of "waving those deaths away."  It's a matter of putting Vietnam into historical context and also of acknowledging that it is not the sum total of LBJ's record--that he did other things that were of comparable, and arguably greater, importance.

By using your type of reasoning, I could accuse you of being morally bankrupt for waving civil rights away and treating it as unimportant.

[Sir Mohamed]

Obama was better than Biden, honestly

Biden is more effective and much better on foreign policy

They're similar on foreign policy, I'll grant you that Biden is better at working with Congress than Obama was. It's mainly on domestic/economic policies where I think Obama did better.

Biden has a more coherant foreign policy and acts more decisive than Obama. Particulary on Russia and the PRC.

Biden also has been more effective to maneuver bills through congress than Obama, despite narrower majorities in his first years in office (although Biden was lucky to have a more ideologically united caucus than Obama as there were still a lot of Blue Dogs back in 2009/10). Also seems to me Biden and his team learned their lessons from the Obama years as to how to treat GOP obstruction.

[dead0man]

the modern left's love affair with this asshole is always funny to me

I don't think it should really be a surprise that the left likes the Civil Rights and Great Society president.

if that was his only actions you'd have an excellent point, but you know there is more to him than that.  Lefties of the time knew. For some reason, hundreds of thousands of dead brown men, women and children doesn't matter to modern lefties because you don't have any problem hand waving those deaths away.

Straw man.  It's not a matter of "waving those deaths away."  It's a matter of putting Vietnam into historical context and also of acknowledging that it is not the sum total of LBJ's record--that he did other things that were of comparable, and arguably greater, importance.

By using your type of reasoning, I could accuse you of being morally bankrupt for waving civil rights away and treating it as unimportant.

he passed legislation that was inevitable, that he only passed for votes, not for some grand desire to help the down trodden and since it's passage, the people it was designed to help have done WAY worse than they were doing before.  If that outweighs a million dead to you, well, to me that's not a good look, but I understand it's quite normal with the modern left...hence my first post.  Your grandparents knew LBJ sucked, that's why if nominated he will not run.

And where do you put taking a dump during meetings, wandering around naked and pissing whenever he felt like it into historical context?  Sounds more like Trump (if he didn't have small "hands") than an important civil rights leader.

[LBJer]

the modern left's love affair with this asshole is always funny to me

I don't think it should really be a surprise that the left likes the Civil Rights and Great Society president.

if that was his only actions you'd have an excellent point, but you know there is more to him than that.  Lefties of the time knew. For some reason, hundreds of thousands of dead brown men, women and children doesn't matter to modern lefties because you don't have any problem hand waving those deaths away.

Straw man.  It's not a matter of "waving those deaths away."  It's a matter of putting Vietnam into historical context and also of acknowledging that it is not the sum total of LBJ's record--that he did other things that were of comparable, and arguably greater, importance.

By using your type of reasoning, I could accuse you of being morally bankrupt for waving civil rights away and treating it as unimportant.

he passed legislation that was inevitable, that he only passed for votes, not for some grand desire to help the down trodden and since it's passage, the people it was designed to help have done WAY worse than they were doing before.  If that outweighs a million dead to you, well, to me that's not a good look, but I understand it's quite normal with the modern left...hence my first post.  Your grandparents knew LBJ sucked, that's why if nominated he will not run.

And where do you put taking a dump during meetings, wandering around naked and pissing whenever he felt like it into historical context?  Sounds more like Trump (if he didn't have small "hands") than an important civil rights leader.

It's far from obvious that the legislation was "inevitable."  And the evidence strongly suggests that no, he didn't pass it just for votes.  And wars that have cost more than a million dead have been waged with far less moral justification that a war for civil rights would have been. 

And I strongly doubt that most African Americans and other minorities would say they're worse off today than before LBJ's presidency.

And "taking a dump during meetings" and such is neither here nor there.

[SWE]

The premise that LBJ only passed civil rights legislation for electoral expediency is pretty absurd given by all accounts he expected to pay a serious electoral penalty for it. And calling his administration's civil rights achievements inevitable is beyond delusional. Vietnam was evil and indefensible but we don't need to rewrite history on something unrelated to make LBJ look like an even bigger bastard than he actually was, an accurate retelling of history makes him look bad enough without needing to deny his indisputable and substantial redeeming qualities

[LBJer]

The premise that LBJ only passed civil rights legislation for electoral expediency is pretty absurd given by all accounts he expected to pay a serious electoral penalty for it. And calling his administration's civil rights achievements inevitable is beyond delusional. Vietnam was evil and indefensible but we don't need to rewrite history on something unrelated to make LBJ look like an even bigger bastard than he actually was, an accurate retelling of history makes him look bad enough without needing to deny his indisputable and substantial redeeming qualities

U.S. combat involvement in Vietnam wasn't "evil."  It was definitely enormously destructive and tragic, but it grew out of a mindset that most Americans at the time sincerely subscribed to.  In that sense, it was predictable. 

[Del Tachi]

If Biden loses, which seems likely, he'll be remembered as Carter-tier, at best.

[politicallefty]

If Biden loses, which seems likely, he'll be remembered as Carter-tier, at best.

And if he wins? And if he wins while holding the Senate and winning back the House?

[PSOL]

He’s the Democratic Herbert Hoover with better electoral chances

[ultraviolet]

Clinton then Biden