Hot take: Obama was a worse president than Joe Biden

[Medal506]

I would say if it weren’t for Covid, Trump probably would have been slightly better than Bush. However, I would say both Bush and Trump were equally as good and both are better than any other 21st century president. Biden would be second best and Obama is by far the worst. He destroyed our country.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Wouldn’t Biden be number 3 given you have Trump and Bush tied for number 1 and number 2

[Goldwater]

I don't think the thread title is a particularly hot take.

[vitoNova]

Obama was the best president of my lifetime.

Voted for him twice.

Just sayin

[dw93]

I agree Biden is a better President than Obama was, but Obama was much better than Bush and Trump.

[RGM2609]

Obama was a horrible president, and Biden has been better by miles. Yet probably history will think of Biden as a forgettable empty suit (or unintentional Quinsling if he loses to Trump this year) and of Obama as this great, historic figure. Just shows how everything is about "vibes", "charisma" and other superficial things rather than concrete policy outcomes these days. Just how Republicans suddenly thought the economy was horrible the day Biden became President after cheering on it a day before.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Obama had everything at the surface level you could want in a President, but he made some major errors in foreign policy and his leadership of the Democratic Party which just about caused its near-extinction at the state level in some parts of the country. Those are some consequences we are still grappling with.

Domestic policy-wise, he was mostly pretty good.

[SWE]

Obama only looks better than Biden from a right-wing hack perspective that prefers a mediocre liberal to a competent one, because from their perspective, the former will do less damage. Same reason basically anyone left of center would prefer Ford over Reagan despite Reagan obviously being a more accomplished president by any metric. But from either a left-wing ideological perspective or an ideologically-neutral "how effective was this president at advancing his agenda" perspective, Biden utterly clears. Bar's not very high in either case - we're comparing him to a particularly mediocre president, but he clears it nonetheless

[Mr. Smith]

Obama only looks better than Biden from a right-wing hack perspective that prefers a mediocre liberal to a competent one, because from their perspective, the former will do less damage. Same reason basically anyone left of center would prefer Ford over Reagan despite Reagan obviously being a more accomplished president by any metric. But from either a left-wing ideological perspective or an ideologically-neutral "how effective was this president at advancing his agenda" perspective, Biden utterly clears. Bar's not very high in either case - we're comparing him to a particularly mediocre president, but he clears it nonetheless

This is becoming increasingly less and less obvious as things go on, and once Trump EO's everything away just like he did to Obama, it's the drawing board again.

He may have the administrative advantage, but he's a terrible figurehead, which is important in convincing the public not to vote to undo, which makes governance far easier.

Also, Obama had a free range McConnell to f*%k over everything, Biden's got an older one, being resisted by Trump.

[Santander]

Also, Obama had a free range McConnell to f*%k over everything, Biden's got an older one, being resisted by Trump.

I prefer my turtles to have humane free range living conditions.

[SWE]

Obama only looks better than Biden from a right-wing hack perspective that prefers a mediocre liberal to a competent one, because from their perspective, the former will do less damage. Same reason basically anyone left of center would prefer Ford over Reagan despite Reagan obviously being a more accomplished president by any metric. But from either a left-wing ideological perspective or an ideologically-neutral "how effective was this president at advancing his agenda" perspective, Biden utterly clears. Bar's not very high in either case - we're comparing him to a particularly mediocre president, but he clears it nonetheless

This is becoming increasingly less and less obvious as things go on, and once Trump EO's everything away just like he did to Obama, it's the drawing board again.

He may have the administrative advantage, but he's a terrible figurehead, which is important in convincing the public not to vote to undo, which makes governance far easier.

Also, Obama had a free range McConnell to f*%k over everything, Biden's got an older one, being resisted by Trump.

It's a closer call than it was a year ago, absolutely, but I'd still say that basically all of my criticisms of Biden are similarly applicable to Obama, other than the fact that Biden's a thousand years old I guess. Biden losing reelection changes the dynamic considerably, which at this point I think is more likely than not, but when I judge these things, I try to imagine it as how I'd rank Biden if he died today, not how I'd rank him based on future events that might not even happen.

[Mr. Smith]

Obama only looks better than Biden from a right-wing hack perspective that prefers a mediocre liberal to a competent one, because from their perspective, the former will do less damage. Same reason basically anyone left of center would prefer Ford over Reagan despite Reagan obviously being a more accomplished president by any metric. But from either a left-wing ideological perspective or an ideologically-neutral "how effective was this president at advancing his agenda" perspective, Biden utterly clears. Bar's not very high in either case - we're comparing him to a particularly mediocre president, but he clears it nonetheless

This is becoming increasingly less and less obvious as things go on, and once Trump EO's everything away just like he did to Obama, it's the drawing board again.

He may have the administrative advantage, but he's a terrible figurehead, which is important in convincing the public not to vote to undo, which makes governance far easier.

Also, Obama had a free range McConnell to f*%k over everything, Biden's got an older one, being resisted by Trump.

It's a closer call than it was a year ago, absolutely, but I'd still say that basically all of my criticisms of Biden are similarly applicable to Obama, other than the fact that Biden's a thousand years old I guess. Biden losing reelection changes the dynamic considerably, which at this point I think is more likely than not, but when I judge these things, I try to imagine it as how I'd rank Biden if he died today, not how I'd rank him based on future events that might not even happen.

Fair enough.

[Reactionary Libertarian]

Obama had everything at the surface level you could want in a President, but he made some major errors in foreign policy and his leadership of the Democratic Party which just about caused its near-extinction at the state level in some parts of the country. Those are some consequences we are still grappling with.

Domestic policy-wise, he was mostly pretty good.

Obama utterly squandered a Democratic supermajority that could’ve been transformative. Meanwhile Biden got a lot done with the tiniest majority a Democratic President has ever had, and got Republicans to cooperate too. Obama is more accomplished on domestic policy only by dint of the huge majorities he had, but if he had Biden’s majority he wouldn’t have gotten anything done.

[VBM]

Please explain how Obama “destroyed” our country

[Roll Roons]

Obama was a horrible party leader.

The fact is that the deaths/health issues of several prominent elderly political figures in the past few years (RBG, Feinstein, McConnell, Don Young) has led to justified concern that Biden may not be able to serve out an entire second term.

I firmly believe that a president who was even 10-15 years younger than Biden (and had actually been elected on their own merits rather than effectively being a DEI hire like Harris) would be crushing Trump right now, but Democrats had no one better than Biden in 2020 because the bench had deteriorated so badly on Obama's watch.

[Roll Roons]

Obama had everything at the surface level you could want in a President, but he made some major errors in foreign policy and his leadership of the Democratic Party which just about caused its near-extinction at the state level in some parts of the country. Those are some consequences we are still grappling with.

Domestic policy-wise, he was mostly pretty good.

Obama utterly squandered a Democratic supermajority that could’ve been transformative. Meanwhile Biden got a lot done with the tiniest majority a Democratic President has ever had, and got Republicans to cooperate too. Obama is more accomplished on domestic policy only by dint of the huge majorities he had, but if he had Biden’s majority he wouldn’t have gotten anything done.

TBF, the Democratic Senate and House caucuses were much more conservative in 2009-2010 than in 2021-2022. If you think Joe Manchin and Josh Gottheimer were a pain, try dealing with Ben Nelson and Dan Boren.

[Reactionary Libertarian]

Obama had everything at the surface level you could want in a President, but he made some major errors in foreign policy and his leadership of the Democratic Party which just about caused its near-extinction at the state level in some parts of the country. Those are some consequences we are still grappling with.

Domestic policy-wise, he was mostly pretty good.

Obama utterly squandered a Democratic supermajority that could’ve been transformative. Meanwhile Biden got a lot done with the tiniest majority a Democratic President has ever had, and got Republicans to cooperate too. Obama is more accomplished on domestic policy only by dint of the huge majorities he had, but if he had Biden’s majority he wouldn’t have gotten anything done.

TBF, the Democratic Senate and House caucuses were much more conservative in 2009-2010 than in 2021-2022. If you think Joe Manchin and Josh Gottheimer were a pain, try dealing with Ben Nelson and Dan Boren.

That’s certainly true, but Obama was also really bad at dealing with them, and with moderate GOPers. Every Democratic President pre-Biden has had a bunch of DINOs in the coalition and managed to deal with them better. Do you think Obama’s would be better at dealing with Manchin were he elected in 2020?

[Comrade Funk]

Nah. The world seems to be crashing around Biden. Now a lot of that isn't his fault, but his handling of a lot of it has been pretty bad. Obama was dealt an awful hand and came out pretty unscathed.

[dw93]

Nah. The world seems to be crashing around Biden. Now a lot of that isn't his fault, but his handling of a lot of it has been pretty bad. Obama was dealt an awful hand and came out pretty unscathed.

Obama only seems unscathed because his Presidency was bookended  by two of the worst Presidents (Bush and Trump) in modern history. If that weren't the case, he'd get far more scrutiny than he currently does. In terms of hand, Obama was dealt an awful hand for sure, but outside of the economy the hand Biden was dealt from Trump was much worse than the one Obama was dealt by Bush.

[Medal506]

Nah. The world seems to be crashing around Biden. Now a lot of that isn't his fault, but his handling of a lot of it has been pretty bad. Obama was dealt an awful hand and came out pretty unscathed.

Obama only seems unscathed because his Presidency was bookended  by two of the worst Presidents (Bush and Trump) in modern history. If that weren't the case, he'd get far more scrutiny than he currently does. In terms of hand, Obama was dealt an awful hand for sure, but outside of the economy the hand Biden was dealt from Trump was much worse than the one Obama was dealt by Bush.

Trump and Bush are both probably the best presidents of the 21st Century as of now. That’s because the only other two are Biden and Obama. Obama being the absolute worst president in the 21st century and Biden being okay

[Beet]

Biden has been Trump 2.0 so it's clear why Republicans would say he's been okay or good. It's not so clear why Democrats would, though. Biden literally has zero substantive domestic legislative achievements. Oh sure, that's been baked in ever since he failed to win any working majority on November 3, 2020, but why should that count in his favor? He was at the top of the ticket, so he has to take responsibility for failing to bring downballot Dems across the finish line.

Not to mention he's going to lose re-election to Trump, which makes him the worst Democrat since Buchanan by that measure alone.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Biden has been Trump 2.0 so it's clear why Republicans would say he's been okay or good. It's not so clear why Democrats would, though. Biden literally has zero substantive domestic legislative achievements. Oh sure, that's been baked in ever since he failed to win any working majority on November 3, 2020, but why should that count in his favor? He was at the top of the ticket, so he has to take responsibility for failing to bring downballot Dems across the finish line.

Obama had filibuster-proof majorities (or close to, anyway) in his first two years and his one substantive accomplishment was a deeply flawed health care reform bill. Also, Biden’s NLRB appointments are a massive improvement over recent Presidents of both parties. Not to mention, reopening the country after the pandemic.

And while he was at the top of the ticket in 2020, at least Biden was better than most of his party in terms of avoiding the nuttier parts of the BLM movement and the Left in general, which hurt Democrats downballot and made Biden’s election closer than it should have been.

I don’t think Biden’s been a particularly good president on either foreign or domestic policy overall, but then again, the bar is incredibly low and so compared to many of his predecessors he looks better—especially if you put aside charisma and ability to charm/interest the political media.