Opinion of Luiz Ignacio Lula de Silva

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Big fan of his domestic policies and am thankful for him defeating Bolsonarismo. Titanium FF.

[MR DARK BRANDON]

Good domestically, not good foreign policy wise

On balance FF

[Flats the Flounder]

Good domestically, not good foreign policy wise

On balance FF

Most leftists in LatAm have pretty bad foreign policy stances, it's not like we can blame them exactly though, considering how they've been treated historically by the US.

Voted FF for his environmental stance mainly, especially compared to Bolsonaro

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Holocaust denier, HP. Probably still better for Brazil and the environment than his fascist alternative, and the best way of dealing with someone like him is reminding them how thoroughly irrelevant they are on the global stage.

[wnwnwn]

Holocaust denier, HP. Probably still better for Brazil and the environment than his fascist alternative, and the best way of dealing with someone like him is reminding them how thoroughly irrelevant they are on the global stage.

One can criticize holocaust inversion, but that's still a different thing than deniying it.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Holocaust denier, HP. Probably still better for Brazil and the environment than his fascist alternative, and the best way of dealing with someone like him is reminding them how thoroughly irrelevant they are on the global stage.

One can criticize holocaust inversion, but that's still a different thing than deniying it.

Lula's specific comments go much further than routine Holocaust inversion, drawing a direct comparison between the facts of the two and stating that there has been nothing as bad in human history besides those two. Ergo, he's either claiming that Israel has killed 13 million people (deranged blood libel) or that only five figures of Jews died in the Holocaust.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Holocaust denier, HP. Probably still better for Brazil and the environment than his fascist alternative, and the best way of dealing with someone like him is reminding them how thoroughly irrelevant they are on the global stage.

One can criticize holocaust inversion, but that's still a different thing than deniying it.

Lula's specific comments go much further than routine Holocaust inversion, drawing a direct comparison between the facts of the two and stating that there has been nothing as bad in human history besides those two. Ergo, he's either claiming that Israel has killed 13 million people (deranged blood libel) or that only five figures of Jews died in the Holocaust.

Let's not forget that it denigrates or downplays every other genocide too. It's like Lula took conventional Holocaust exceptionalism and went "this is great, but how can I make it as offensive to Jews as it already is to groups targeted in historical genocides besides Jews?" It's astonishing how well-formulated what he said was to insult almost every single currently or formerly oppressed people group on the planet except Palestinians, including many that are present in Brazil and turned out in droves to vote for him.

Didn't vote. I like him a lot in most ways, but this series of remarks really was far beyond the pale.

[Vice President Christian Man]

I'm glad he beat Bolsonaro and domestically he's a massive FF, but on foreign policy he seems to have some bad instincts on certain issues, although it's tougher to blame him given that Brazil is not aligned with the West. Still a "FF" but a soft one.

[TML]

On domestic policy, he's a clear FF, but on foreign policy, he has some views that are clearly not very bright (for example, his suggestion that Ukraine cede some of its Russian-occupied territories in order to end the war - which is clearly a non-starter with the current Ukrainian administration).

[Hindsight was 2020]

I want to like him but his godawful FP comments like the already mentioned Holocaust comments or saying Ukraine is equally to blame for the war with Russia make it impossible

[S019]

HP, but way better than Bolsonaro

[Aurelius2]

Bad for the reasons already stated and also for being a pinko. Additionally, I shall jaichind-post for once: his taxation policies tanked my MELI stock this week.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Holocaust denier, HP. Probably still better for Brazil and the environment than his fascist alternative, and the best way of dealing with someone like him is reminding them how thoroughly irrelevant they are on the global stage.

One can criticize holocaust inversion, but that's still a different thing than deniying it.

Lula's specific comments go much further than routine Holocaust inversion, drawing a direct comparison between the facts of the two and stating that there has been nothing as bad in human history besides those two. Ergo, he's either claiming that Israel has killed 13 million people (deranged blood libel) or that only five figures of Jews died in the Holocaust.

Let's not forget that it denigrates or downplays every other genocide too. It's like Lula took conventional Holocaust exceptionalism and went "this is great, but how can I make it as offensive to Jews as it already is to groups targeted in historical genocides besides Jews?" It's astonishing how well-formulated what he said was to insult almost every single currently or formerly oppressed people group on the planet except Palestinians, including many that are present in Brazil and turned out in droves to vote for him.

Didn't vote. I like him a lot in most ways, but this series of remarks really was far beyond the pale.

To quote a Brazilian Atlas poster (not RedVelvet, to be clear):

Comparisons to Holocaust have many problems, but Lula didn't invent them. The Israeli government compares its enemies to nazis. Israeli authorities had already used at UN the star used by the jews during the Holocaust. Many anti-west dictators are usually compared to Hitler by western media and politicians and nobody complains.

I don't think we should carve an exception out for Israel. Them thinking themselves to be the exception not limited by any rules is what helped make the current mess and they need to be taught that they are bound by normal rules.
I don't like the speech too much but it's hardly scandalous to me.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Far better than Bolsanaro, but an absolute vile anti-Semite, so HP

[Lumine]

Overrated, corrupt, and with a godawful foreign policy that makes Mexico look positively sane.

Being better than Bolsonaro is such a low bar to clear that I don't think he deserves much praise for it, much as it was a relief that he did vanquish the man.

[wnwnwn]

Elements of whackjobbery will always be inherent in the third world, because these officials ultimately reflect the feelings and emotions of their constituents.

Just sayin'

Anti-western-imperialism social-conservative anti-racist leftists are an important group to most left wing coalitions in the region. Any left wing politician that wants to win a presidential race in the region has to somehow appeal to them.

[buritobr]

FF

Third best president Brazil ever had.
Good domestic policies.
Correct view on Gaza.
His statement last year about "Russia and Ukraine are equally guilty" was bad. I admit. Russia is guilty. But we should remember that 2/3 of the mankind leave in a country which is not sanctioning Russia.

Brazil is not a part of the west, and so, it should not behave as if it was. And we consider that the "west" is really the "north".

[Antonio the Sixth]

Huge FF for what he's done for Brazil, but needs to shut up forever about any foreign policy issue beyond the confines of Latin America.

[Red Velvet]

Meanwhile, Brazilian Progressives are like:

“I wish Domestic Policy Lula was the same badass from International Policy Lula”

Love him for standing up against Israel actions and every International position he holds, but we wish he had same energy standing up against the Big Center crooks in congress instead of the moderate conciliatory stuff, opening up our wallets whenever these elected devils pressure for more money and power.

The opposite of this forum.

[MyLifeIsYours]

Generally positive from his past tenure to much of his foreign policy concerning global conflicts.

[wnwnwn]

Meanwhile, Brazilian Progressives are like:

“I wish Domestic Policy Lula was the same badass from International Policy Lula”

Love him for standing up against Israel actions and every International position he holds, but we wish he had same energy standing up against the Big Center crooks in congress instead of the moderate conciliatory stuff, opening up our wallets whenever these elected devils pressure for more money and power.

The opposite of this forum.

This forum is full of Cold War Liberals (me included, up to a point).

[buritobr]

Elements of whackjobbery will always be inherent in the third world, because these officials ultimately reflect the feelings and emotions of their constituents.

Just sayin'

Anti-western-imperialism social-conservative anti-racist leftists are an important group to most left wing coalitions in the region. Any left wing politician that wants to win a presidential race in the region has to somehow appeal to them.

There are no social conservatives in Lula's coalition. PT candidates for executive branches say that they don't support the legalization of abortion and cannabis when they are asked, in order to not loose some important votes. But the anti-PT candidates are the ones who use the anti-abortion as a campaign issue. Collor 1989, Serra 2010 and Bolsonaro 2018&2022 did it.
As I mentioned in another thread, Latin America has different polarization in comparison to Eastern Europe, Middle East and Asia. Here, the social progressives are on the same side of the ones who support a more active public sector in the economy and a more independent foreign policy. The social conservatives are on the same side of the ones who support laissez-faire and automatic aligment with the US.
Peru is one of a few exceptions, in which there is an important social conservative left, as we could see in the election of Pedro Castilo.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Titanium HP.

[Red Velvet]

Elements of whackjobbery will always be inherent in the third world, because these officials ultimately reflect the feelings and emotions of their constituents.

Just sayin'

Anti-western-imperialism social-conservative anti-racist leftists are an important group to most left wing coalitions in the region. Any left wing politician that wants to win a presidential race in the region has to somehow appeal to them.

There are no social conservatives in Lula's coalition. PT candidates for executive branches say that they don't support the legalization of abortion and cannabis when they are asked, in order to not loose some important votes. But the anti-PT candidates are the ones who use the anti-abortion as a campaign issue. Collor 1989, Serra 2010 and Bolsonaro 2018&2022 did it.
As I mentioned in another thread, Latin America has different polarization in comparison to Eastern Europe, Middle East and Asia. Here, the social progressives are on the same side of the ones who support a more active public sector in the economy and a more independent foreign policy. The social conservatives are on the same side of the ones who support laissez-faire and automatic aligment with the US.
Peru is one of a few exceptions, in which there is an important social conservative left, as we could see in the election of Pedro Castilo.

It varies from country to country tbh. LatAm is not a monolith.

Peru is way more socially conservative than the average LatAm country, so that’s why the Left in there has to be somewhat socially conservative in order to exist and have relevance.

Argentina otoh is one of the most socially progressive ones, so the Left often talks very openly about similar issues that exist in Western countries, such as abortion for example, with pro-choice people going to streets and WINNING on the issue.

Brazil is neither a Peru or an Argentina imo, but somewhere in-between. Not nearly as socially conservative as Peru but also not as progressive as Argentina. And Brazilian Left naturally reflects that.

I fully agree Lula’s coalition is mostly progressive (not unanimously though) but I would question you about social progressiveness being a main priority for everyone.

Abortion or Weed Legalization are issues the executive doesn’t even dare to position because it understands that it can be widely despised by a majority of population, including people in their electorate.

Lula’s supreme court ministers were nominated based on who Lula trusts and who were openly NEUTRAL on these social issues, not being the Identity Politics types that progressives were hoping for.

But yeah, that “Social Conservative” parameter is very subjective for Latin America and not really fitting on a broader sense, I believe the poster you’re responding has this impression because they’re from Peru and their Left is by nature more conservative than ours (even if I wouldn’t call us exactly progressives either).

Like, if Peru Left is “Conservative” and Argentina Left is “Progressive”, best way to describe Brazil Left is as “Ashamed Progressives”.

The high-educated Base would surely love for the parties to be progressive as hell but they know that pragmatically that is impossible because of the average of where the population is. So often the left parties can cater to some conservative positions as well.

[Reactionary Libertarian]

Horrible communist. Disgraceful that Biden was supporting him and his campaign, when Bolsonaro was the pro-US option.