Western countries where progressive politics has bright future
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  Western countries where progressive politics has bright future
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Santander
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« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2024, 11:52:23 AM »

Sooner or later this current right wing "wave" - to the extent it exists - will abate, not least because they don't actually have the answers. This is really about the failure of neoliberalism in general, and the super rich hoarding more and more wealth and power for themselves in particular.

Ultimately, only a leftist or progressive (pick the term you like) platform can hope to tackle this.

Social democracy alone offers the foundation upon which the lives of people everywhere can be made dignified, just, and exciting.

A bit arrogant to think the ideology you happen to follow is the only possible correct one, no? It's not like there is a specific policy prescription for "social democracy" in the dictionary, either - people can call themselves the same thing but hold fairly divergent views.
I was just quoting Broadbent, in truth I personally have a great deal of personal doubt about the veracity of any of my convictions, that being said I am more or less convinced I’ve got a good set of ideas.

The other reason I posted that quote is because in my view “social democracy” is a term that carries a lot more meaning than “leftist” or “progressive” which I frown upon.

Got it, thanks for the clarification.
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mileslunn
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« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2024, 05:32:36 PM »

The world has been getting more right wing for the past 50 years -- the longest period of conservative ascendancy since, at the very least, the industrial revolution. While this may come to an end, I fail to see how social democracy will necessarily "win". The populist right doesn't have the answers. So what? No one does. In the meantime, governments will continue to exist.

By what metric has it actually gotten more right-wing? Certainly not on social issues. You were lucky if you were in a place where it was legal to be LGBT for example in 1974, let alone safe.


On economic have definitely moved right.  Maybe not at the height of neo-liberalism like saw in 80s and 90s but generally parties that advocate more activist governments tend to lose more often than not. 

On social issues, it is varied.  On LGBT rights have moved left no doubt but on race relations and immigration I would say opposite.  That being said I also think when minorities are just that and pose no demographic threat, people more tolerant than if seen as being large enough to influence culture.  So perhaps maybe have moved left as in 50s I think most in West didn't want any non-whites whereas now its most okay with them as long as remain a minority.  Canada is the only Western country I can think of where majority would probably be okay with whites becoming a minority.  Opposition to immigration there now is more over high housing prices not changing demographics asides maybe in Quebec.

I also think challenging establishment, academia runs much stronger and not just disagreeing but outright hostility to them.  Being called a Liberal elite 50 years ago wasn't the slur it is today.  Likewise in past you had strong post WWII consensus where all parties largely agreed on major issues and differences were more over details and degree.  Today you have parties doing well and winning that totally want to challenge the consensus.  You can have those on either side, but it is those on right winning, not left.  Sumar, Worker's Party of Belgium, Corbyn, Sanders would be examples on left challenging consensus but all losing.  Sinn Fein if they win and that is big if might be one exception to buck trend. 
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Flats the Flounder
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« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2024, 10:28:27 PM »

The world has been getting more right wing for the past 50 years -- the longest period of conservative ascendancy since, at the very least, the industrial revolution. While this may come to an end, I fail to see how social democracy will necessarily "win". The populist right doesn't have the answers. So what? No one does. In the meantime, governments will continue to exist.

By what metric has it actually gotten more right-wing? Certainly not on social issues. You were lucky if you were in a place where it was legal to be LGBT for example in 1974, let alone safe.


On economic have definitely moved right.  Maybe not at the height of neo-liberalism like saw in 80s and 90s but generally parties that advocate more activist governments tend to lose more often than not. 


Yeah, you do actually have a good point there. Compared to 50 years ago, we have a much more right-wing economic system. That's not to say that couldn't change though, a poll done in June showed 61% of Americans hold left-wing economic views, a huge jump from even a few years ago: https://echeloninsights.com/in-the-news/june-2023-political-quadrants/

On social issues, it is varied.  On LGBT rights have moved left no doubt but on race relations and immigration I would say opposite.  That being said I also think when minorities are just that and pose no demographic threat, people more tolerant than if seen as being large enough to influence culture.  So perhaps maybe have moved left as in 50s I think most in West didn't want any non-whites whereas now its most okay with them as long as remain a minority.  Canada is the only Western country I can think of where majority would probably be okay with whites becoming a minority.  Opposition to immigration there now is more over high housing prices not changing demographics asides maybe in Quebec.


Race relations have definitely moved to the left compared to the 70s. We still have a long way to go on this front obviously, but people 50 years ago were still arguing in favor of segregation in the US. Apartheid was rampant in South Africa, and European powers were still fighting to hold on to their colonies.

I also think challenging establishment, academia runs much stronger and not just disagreeing but outright hostility to them.  Being called a Liberal elite 50 years ago wasn't the slur it is today.  Likewise in past you had strong post WWII consensus where all parties largely agreed on major issues and differences were more over details and degree.  Today you have parties doing well and winning that totally want to challenge the consensus.  You can have those on either side, but it is those on right winning, not left.  Sumar, Worker's Party of Belgium, Corbyn, Sanders would be examples on left challenging consensus but all losing.  Sinn Fein if they win and that is big if might be one exception to buck trend. 

Those figures you listed did lose, but I think they also helped push their respective countries to the left. Sanders definitely did, at least. For what it's worth, I think the Western/Eurocentric framing of this question is also a bit limiting. The 2000s saw a huge boom in left-wing support in Latin America, and despite right-wingers also getting elected in some countries since then, the region definitely is still seeing the effects of the pink tide.
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