How to I justify voting for someone complicit in genocide?

[pppolitics]

Every bit of my conscience is screaming NO!

Meanwhile, Atlas is telling me that the alternative is worse.

It seems that, no matter what I do, I will come to regret it.

[TML]

If this is the only issue that matters to you, then I'm not sure if there's anything I can say to change your mind.

If there are other issues that you are willing to take into consideration, then you can evaluate the candidates' positions on those issues and then decide which one is more aligned with you on those issues. (Remember: Exit polls in 2020 showed that Biden & Trump won 4% and 5% of voters who viewed them unfavorably, respectively.)

[Flats the Flounder]

If I'm being honest, do what you think is right, and don't worry about what strangers on an Internet forum will think. At least you'll have stuck with the principles that matter to you instead of going with the crowd.

(This is coming from someone who does think the alternative could be worse)

[pppolitics]

If this is the only issue that matters to you, then I'm not sure if there's anything I can say to change your mind.

If there are other issues that you are willing to take into consideration, then you can evaluate the candidates' positions on those issues and then decide which one is more aligned with you on those issues. (Remember: Exit polls in 2020 showed that Biden & Trump won 4% and 5% of voters who viewed them unfavorably, respectively.)

I am not a single-issue voter, but what has happened recently has been so alienating that other issues seem to fade into the background.

[Fascism Must Be Defeated]

If you're voting in California, don't bother. If you lived somewhere where your vote would change the outcome I would tell you to do something different.

[pppolitics]

If you're voting in California, don't bother. If you lived somewhere where your vote would change the outcome I would tell you to do something different.

What if I said "Nevada"?

[Goldwater]

If you're voting in California, don't bother. If you lived somewhere where your vote would change the outcome I would tell you to do something different.

What if I said "Nevada"?

I mean, that is a swing state which is quite possibly in play for Trump. Whether that matters or not is up to you.

[インターネット掲示板ユーザー Punxsutawney Phil]

Every bit of my conscience is screaming NO!

Meanwhile, Atlas is telling me that the alternative is worse.

It seems that, no matter what I do, I will come to regret it.

Biden has been lobbying for a containing of this conflict.
Meanwhile, the Trump peace plan in 2019...reflects perhaps what Trump would try to achieve. Half-heartedly. Or more specifically, Kushner, who would be in charge of Mideast policy. Do you want Kushner in charge of US foreign policy in the Middle East? Concerning yourself with "moral purity" seems foolish if you're focused on outcomes. If Trump was in charge during this war he might have cheerleaded the pogroms in the West Bank publicly and supported escalation into Lebanon.
Do we want that to be our Middle East approach? You don't like how Biden's handled it, that's okay. But Biden's at least facing pressure from within his own party. Do we really expect pressure on Trump to treat Palestine humanely? Instead, we'll see even more suffering for Palestine. Some GOPers even went to court to push Biden to stop giving money to the Palestinian authority!
Now, Trump himself is rather heterodex and may change things on a whim, but the people around him would likely stop any pro-Palestinian shift. The key to Holy Land policy going into the hands of Jared and extreme hardline anti-Palestinian types - would you really want that? No matter what you do, one of these people will win. Trump may chart a better course, but his presidency ought to produce skepticism that he'd be even on the same level as Biden. Just look at the Abraham Peace Accords...

[Sic Semper Fascistis]

What Biden can realistically do in this conflict is extremely limited, and to a significant extent he's been trying to reduce the harm. Look, at the end of the day it's between you and your conscience, but if you care about the future of THIS country there's really only one reasonable choice here.

[SnowLabrador]

If you're voting between one genocide or two, vote for one. Harm reduction is the point of this election. Nothing will improve if Biden wins, but things will get a hell of a lot worse if Trump wins.

[AtorBoltox]

Who are you talking about?

[pppolitics]

What Biden can realistically do in this conflict is extremely limited, and to a significant extent he's been trying to reduce the harm. Look, at the end of the day it's between you and your conscience, but if you care about the future of THIS country there's really only one reasonable choice here.

He bypassed Congress twice to send weapons to Israel.

https://apnews.com/article/us-israel-gaza-arms-hamas-bypass-congress-1dc77f20aac4a797df6a2338b677da4f

He opposes placing conditions on weapons sent to Israel

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/29/biden-conditions-israel-aid-netanyahu-00129117

He is also ignoring the Leahy Law

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/us-supply-weapons-israel-alleged-abuses-human-rights

Not doing anything would have been an improvement

[pppolitics]

Every bit of my conscience is screaming NO!

Meanwhile, Atlas is telling me that the alternative is worse.

It seems that, no matter what I do, I will come to regret it.

Biden has been lobbying for a containing of this conflict.
Meanwhile, the Trump peace plan in 2019...reflects perhaps what Trump would try to achieve. Half-heartedly. Or more specifically, Kushner, who would be in charge of Mideast policy. Do you want Kushner in charge of US foreign policy in the Middle East? Concerning yourself with "moral purity" seems foolish if you're focused on outcomes. If Trump was in charge during this war he might have cheerleaded the pogroms in the West Bank publicly and supported escalation into Lebanon.
Do we want that to be our Middle East approach? You don't like how Biden's handled it, that's okay. But Biden's at least facing pressure from within his own party. Do we really expect pressure on Trump to treat Palestine humanely? Instead, we'll see even more suffering for Palestine. Some GOPers even went to court to push Biden to stop giving money to the Palestinian authority!
Now, Trump himself is rather heterodex and may change things on a whim, but the people around him would likely stop any pro-Palestinian shift. The key to Holy Land policy going into the hands of Jared and extreme hardline anti-Palestinian types - would you really want that? No matter what you do, one of these people will win. Trump may chart a better course, but his presidency ought to produce skepticism that he'd be even on the same level as Biden. Just look at the Abraham Peace Accords...

Which part of "containing this conflict" is bypassing Congress to send more weapons to Israel?

[インターネット掲示板ユーザー Punxsutawney Phil]

Every bit of my conscience is screaming NO!

Meanwhile, Atlas is telling me that the alternative is worse.

It seems that, no matter what I do, I will come to regret it.

Biden has been lobbying for a containing of this conflict.
Meanwhile, the Trump peace plan in 2019...reflects perhaps what Trump would try to achieve. Half-heartedly. Or more specifically, Kushner, who would be in charge of Mideast policy. Do you want Kushner in charge of US foreign policy in the Middle East? Concerning yourself with "moral purity" seems foolish if you're focused on outcomes. If Trump was in charge during this war he might have cheerleaded the pogroms in the West Bank publicly and supported escalation into Lebanon.
Do we want that to be our Middle East approach? You don't like how Biden's handled it, that's okay. But Biden's at least facing pressure from within his own party. Do we really expect pressure on Trump to treat Palestine humanely? Instead, we'll see even more suffering for Palestine. Some GOPers even went to court to push Biden to stop giving money to the Palestinian authority!
Now, Trump himself is rather heterodex and may change things on a whim, but the people around him would likely stop any pro-Palestinian shift. The key to Holy Land policy going into the hands of Jared and extreme hardline anti-Palestinian types - would you really want that? No matter what you do, one of these people will win. Trump may chart a better course, but his presidency ought to produce skepticism that he'd be even on the same level as Biden. Just look at the Abraham Peace Accords...

Which part of "containing this conflict" is bypassing Congress to send more weapons to Israel?

He aggressively shot down efforts by Bibi to expand the war to Lebanon. The weapons sales are a sign of him strongly supporting his version of what he sees as their right to defend themselves but that's just one piece of the puzzle. He's also restraining the bloodlust of quite a bit of the Israeli electorate by presenting a course that is distinct from the settler radicals and Bibi, preventing them from monopolizing the conversation over what to do with Hamas and Gaza.
Right now he's more popular with Israelis than Bibi is, in fact he's very popular among Israelis while Bibi is well underwater. That counts for something...it directly undercuts the settler extremists and their political capital by ensuring they aren't the only ones with credibility.
Biden gets the message that this expanding is not good. He's gotten blowback, lots of it. He's working overtime to try to put out the worst fires. At least he's trying.
As I just said, I doubt Trump can be trusted to treat this conflict well, though I concede he could perform better than in his first term here. Jared really is bad news and under Trump he's back to play. the 2017-2021 role, again. Is that worth it?

[pppolitics]

Every bit of my conscience is screaming NO!

Meanwhile, Atlas is telling me that the alternative is worse.

It seems that, no matter what I do, I will come to regret it.

Biden has been lobbying for a containing of this conflict.
Meanwhile, the Trump peace plan in 2019...reflects perhaps what Trump would try to achieve. Half-heartedly. Or more specifically, Kushner, who would be in charge of Mideast policy. Do you want Kushner in charge of US foreign policy in the Middle East? Concerning yourself with "moral purity" seems foolish if you're focused on outcomes. If Trump was in charge during this war he might have cheerleaded the pogroms in the West Bank publicly and supported escalation into Lebanon.
Do we want that to be our Middle East approach? You don't like how Biden's handled it, that's okay. But Biden's at least facing pressure from within his own party. Do we really expect pressure on Trump to treat Palestine humanely? Instead, we'll see even more suffering for Palestine. Some GOPers even went to court to push Biden to stop giving money to the Palestinian authority!
Now, Trump himself is rather heterodex and may change things on a whim, but the people around him would likely stop any pro-Palestinian shift. The key to Holy Land policy going into the hands of Jared and extreme hardline anti-Palestinian types - would you really want that? No matter what you do, one of these people will win. Trump may chart a better course, but his presidency ought to produce skepticism that he'd be even on the same level as Biden. Just look at the Abraham Peace Accords...

Which part of "containing this conflict" is bypassing Congress to send more weapons to Israel?

He aggressively shot down efforts by Bibi to expand the war to Lebanon. The weapons sales are a sign of him strongly supporting his version of what he sees as their right to defend themselves but that's just one piece of the puzzle. He's also restraining the bloodlust of quite a bit of the Israeli electorate by presenting a course that is distinct from the settler radicals and Bibi, preventing them from monopolizing the conversation over what to do with Hamas and Gaza.
Right now he's more popular with Israelis than Bibi is, in fact he's very popular among Israelis while Bibi is well underwater. That counts for something...it directly undercuts the settler extremists and their political capital by ensuring they aren't the only ones with credibility.
Biden gets the message that this expanding is not good. He's gotten blowback, lots of it. He's working overtime to try to put out the worst fires. At least he's trying.
As I just said, I doubt Trump can be trusted to treat this conflict well, though I concede he could perform better than in his first term here. Jared really is bad news and under Trump he's back to play. the 2017-2021 role, again. Is that worth it?

That’s a lot of mental gymnastics.

All Biden had to do was sit this one out.

Israel runs out of weapons. War ends.

Instead, he chose to send more weapons and become complicit in this genocide.

[Vosem]

You should write in Netanyahu, to discourage future Presidents from pursuing insufficiently pro-Israel policies which are complicit in genocide.

[Mr. Smith]

Easy, the Office itself is simply a compromised position which will endorse something questionable anyway.

The real question is, is the genocide direct and internal, or is it still a faraway one?  Is there an alternative opponent with actual solutions...or not?  Are the local trains running on time, or not?

Even Jimmy "we didn't fire a single bullet" Carter isn't immune to this, but he was still the best option back in 1980.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

Vote for a third-party candidate

[dead0man]

you could show some backbone and vote your conscious instead of like a herd animal

[インターネット掲示板ユーザー Punxsutawney Phil]

Every bit of my conscience is screaming NO!

Meanwhile, Atlas is telling me that the alternative is worse.

It seems that, no matter what I do, I will come to regret it.

Biden has been lobbying for a containing of this conflict.
Meanwhile, the Trump peace plan in 2019...reflects perhaps what Trump would try to achieve. Half-heartedly. Or more specifically, Kushner, who would be in charge of Mideast policy. Do you want Kushner in charge of US foreign policy in the Middle East? Concerning yourself with "moral purity" seems foolish if you're focused on outcomes. If Trump was in charge during this war he might have cheerleaded the pogroms in the West Bank publicly and supported escalation into Lebanon.
Do we want that to be our Middle East approach? You don't like how Biden's handled it, that's okay. But Biden's at least facing pressure from within his own party. Do we really expect pressure on Trump to treat Palestine humanely? Instead, we'll see even more suffering for Palestine. Some GOPers even went to court to push Biden to stop giving money to the Palestinian authority!
Now, Trump himself is rather heterodex and may change things on a whim, but the people around him would likely stop any pro-Palestinian shift. The key to Holy Land policy going into the hands of Jared and extreme hardline anti-Palestinian types - would you really want that? No matter what you do, one of these people will win. Trump may chart a better course, but his presidency ought to produce skepticism that he'd be even on the same level as Biden. Just look at the Abraham Peace Accords...

Which part of "containing this conflict" is bypassing Congress to send more weapons to Israel?

He aggressively shot down efforts by Bibi to expand the war to Lebanon. The weapons sales are a sign of him strongly supporting his version of what he sees as their right to defend themselves but that's just one piece of the puzzle. He's also restraining the bloodlust of quite a bit of the Israeli electorate by presenting a course that is distinct from the settler radicals and Bibi, preventing them from monopolizing the conversation over what to do with Hamas and Gaza.
Right now he's more popular with Israelis than Bibi is, in fact he's very popular among Israelis while Bibi is well underwater. That counts for something...it directly undercuts the settler extremists and their political capital by ensuring they aren't the only ones with credibility.
Biden gets the message that this expanding is not good. He's gotten blowback, lots of it. He's working overtime to try to put out the worst fires. At least he's trying.
As I just said, I doubt Trump can be trusted to treat this conflict well, though I concede he could perform better than in his first term here. Jared really is bad news and under Trump he's back to play. the 2017-2021 role, again. Is that worth it?

That’s a lot of mental gymnastics.

All Biden had to do was sit this one out.

Israel runs out of weapons. War ends.

Instead, he chose to send more weapons and become complicit in this genocide.

I will note I have spoken at length about specifics about what's influenced the Trump administration policies on Israel. I myself remember the reaction the Trump peace plan got among me and my Muslim family, which was, not favorable. Trump himself was the most antagonistic president to the interests of Palestinians over the entire past 30-40 years. And you've completely ignored this in favor of... criticizing Biden. Again.
Harm reduction is a thing. You don't have to even take note of the more solidly doctrinaire Zionism of this country to note that Trump's track record during the presidency is something he has to prove he has changed from. You choose not to go back to that era, whether you realize it or not, but those willing to look at the past earnestly will.

I think you're also not realizing that Israel has its own strengths. Such as being in the top 10 arms exporters in the world. They make their own battle tanks, missiles, and many other weapons. In many ways, we buy from them as much as vice versa. A nation like that running out of weapons feels fanciful. In fact, they don't need us as much as we need them. We are an empire in slow relative decline and what the Israelis give us helps slow this decline down significantly.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Realize that the alternative would be even worse for Palestinian interests. Trump doesn't care, he just has the luxury of not having to comment on it. In reality he moved the US embassy to Jerusalem and got a settlement named after him. If Netanyahu offers to do that again Trump would let them nuke Gaza. Biden is at least aware that his administration is walking a very precarious tightrope.

[Mine the Strait]

Good thing we had people like you around in 1968. Everyone was furious with Johnson's handling of Vietnam, so they took a principled stand and refused to vote for Humphrey. This resulted in antiwar pacifist Richard Nixon winning the presidency, and everything was fixed. Something similar will happen this coming November.

[Transgender for Everybody]

Good thing we had people like you around in 1968. Everyone was furious with Johnson's handling of Vietnam, so they took a principled stand and refused to vote for Humphrey. This resulted in antiwar pacifist Richard Nixon winning the presidency, and everything was fixed. Something similar will happen this coming November.

I don't know, man, Humphrey never said "You think you just fell out of a coconut tree?"

[pppolitics]

Every bit of my conscience is screaming NO!

Meanwhile, Atlas is telling me that the alternative is worse.

It seems that, no matter what I do, I will come to regret it.

Biden has been lobbying for a containing of this conflict.
Meanwhile, the Trump peace plan in 2019...reflects perhaps what Trump would try to achieve. Half-heartedly. Or more specifically, Kushner, who would be in charge of Mideast policy. Do you want Kushner in charge of US foreign policy in the Middle East? Concerning yourself with "moral purity" seems foolish if you're focused on outcomes. If Trump was in charge during this war he might have cheerleaded the pogroms in the West Bank publicly and supported escalation into Lebanon.
Do we want that to be our Middle East approach? You don't like how Biden's handled it, that's okay. But Biden's at least facing pressure from within his own party. Do we really expect pressure on Trump to treat Palestine humanely? Instead, we'll see even more suffering for Palestine. Some GOPers even went to court to push Biden to stop giving money to the Palestinian authority!
Now, Trump himself is rather heterodex and may change things on a whim, but the people around him would likely stop any pro-Palestinian shift. The key to Holy Land policy going into the hands of Jared and extreme hardline anti-Palestinian types - would you really want that? No matter what you do, one of these people will win. Trump may chart a better course, but his presidency ought to produce skepticism that he'd be even on the same level as Biden. Just look at the Abraham Peace Accords...

Which part of "containing this conflict" is bypassing Congress to send more weapons to Israel?

He aggressively shot down efforts by Bibi to expand the war to Lebanon. The weapons sales are a sign of him strongly supporting his version of what he sees as their right to defend themselves but that's just one piece of the puzzle. He's also restraining the bloodlust of quite a bit of the Israeli electorate by presenting a course that is distinct from the settler radicals and Bibi, preventing them from monopolizing the conversation over what to do with Hamas and Gaza.
Right now he's more popular with Israelis than Bibi is, in fact he's very popular among Israelis while Bibi is well underwater. That counts for something...it directly undercuts the settler extremists and their political capital by ensuring they aren't the only ones with credibility.
Biden gets the message that this expanding is not good. He's gotten blowback, lots of it. He's working overtime to try to put out the worst fires. At least he's trying.
As I just said, I doubt Trump can be trusted to treat this conflict well, though I concede he could perform better than in his first term here. Jared really is bad news and under Trump he's back to play. the 2017-2021 role, again. Is that worth it?

That’s a lot of mental gymnastics.

All Biden had to do was sit this one out.

Israel runs out of weapons. War ends.

Instead, he chose to send more weapons and become complicit in this genocide.

I will note I have spoken at length about specifics about what's influenced the Trump administration policies on Israel. I myself remember the reaction the Trump peace plan got among me and my Muslim family, which was, not favorable. Trump himself was the most antagonistic president to the interests of Palestinians over the entire past 30-40 years. And you've completely ignored this in favor of... criticizing Biden. Again.
Harm reduction is a thing. You don't have to even take note of the more solidly doctrinaire Zionism of this country to note that Trump's track record during the presidency is something he has to prove he has changed from. You choose not to go back to that era, whether you realize it or not, but those willing to look at the past earnestly will.

I think you're also not realizing that Israel has its own strengths. Such as being in the top 10 arms exporters in the world. They make their own battle tanks, missiles, and many other weapons. In many ways, we buy from them as much as vice versa. A nation like that running out of weapons feels fanciful. In fact, they don't need us as much as we need them. We are an empire in slow relative decline and what the Israelis give us helps slow this decline down significantly.

You should wake up.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Good thing we had people like you around in 1968. Everyone was furious with Johnson's handling of Vietnam, so they took a principled stand and refused to vote for Humphrey. This resulted in antiwar pacifist Richard Nixon winning the presidency, and everything was fixed. Something similar will happen this coming November.

Except Nixon winning in 1968 was good