Did October 7th feel like a major vibe shift in the race?

[Tekken_Guy]

Did the October 7ths attacks feel like a major vibe shift in the race.

[pppolitics]

It's not so much October 7, but what happened after.

Biden completely botched his response to it, to say the least. (A dumpster fire would be more appropriate description.)

Even his aid has admitted as such:

The Biden aide, Jon Finer, a deputy national security adviser, offered some of the administration’s clearest expressions of regret for what he called “missteps” it had made from the beginning of the violence, and he pledged that it would do better.

During the meeting on Thursday with Arab American political leaders in Dearborn, Mich., Mr. Finer said, “We are very well aware that we have missteps in the course of responding to this crisis since Oct. 7,” according to a recording of the gathering obtained by The New York Times. A National Security Council official confirmed the recording was authentic.

Mr. Finer added: “We have left a very damaging impression based on what has been a wholly inadequate public accounting for how much the president, the administration and the country values the lives of Palestinians. And that began, frankly, pretty early in the conflict.”

[...]

Mr. Finer also said the Biden administration should have been faster to publicly condemn statements made by some Israeli officials that, in his words, compared “residents of Gaza to animals.” He said officials had not done so because they were trying to work with the Israeli government.

[...]

He did not clarify which Israeli officials he was referring to, but in the conflict’s early days, Yoav Gallant, the Israeli defense minister, said, “We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly.” Some other Israeli officials have also faced criticism for dehumanizing language.

Mr. Finer’s most explicit note of contrition was for a statement released under Mr. Biden’s name on Jan. 14, marking 100 days since the conflict began. The statement focused on the plight of American and Israeli hostages being held in Gaza and made no reference to Palestinians who had been killed.

“It did not in any way address the loss of Palestinian life during the course of the first 100 days of the conflict,” Mr. Finer said. “There is no excuse for that. It should not have happened. I believe it will not happen again. But we know that there was a lot of damage done.”

Mr. Finer, who declined to comment, is the second-ranking official on the National Security Council, under Jake Sullivan, who is Mr. Biden’s national security adviser.

[...]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/09/us/politics/biden-aide-israel-regret.html

[Birdish]

That's when Biden's numbers with young voters started to noticeably decline and his topline started to suffer as a result.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Yes, in that the Democrats were no longer able to ignore and marginalize their own MAGA faction. They demanded to be heard, their genocidal demands in full view of the world. It will be harder for Biden to win with them actively trying to defeat him from within, but if he pulls it off, the party will be stronger.

I don't buy that this is the reason why he's struggling in the polls, though. The border and economic "vibes" probably have more to do with it.

[Tekken_Guy]

Yes, in that the Democrats were no longer able to ignore and marginalize their own MAGA faction. They demanded to be heard, their genocidal demands in full view of the world. It will be harder for Biden to win with them actively trying to defeat him from within, but if he pulls it off, the party will be stronger.

I don't buy that this is the reason why he's struggling in the polls, though. The border and economic "vibes" probably have more to do with it.

The economic vibes have gotten better since early 2023 when Biden was polling well against Trump.

[The Economy is Getting Worse]

Yes, in that the Democrats were no longer able to ignore and marginalize their own MAGA faction. They demanded to be heard, their genocidal demands in full view of the world. It will be harder for Biden to win with them actively trying to defeat him from within, but if he pulls it off, the party will be stronger.

I don't buy that this is the reason why he's struggling in the polls, though. The border and economic "vibes" probably have more to do with it.

The economic vibes have gotten better since early 2023 when Biden was polling well against Trump.

The actual economy is getting worse.

[wbrocks67]

That's when Biden's numbers with young voters started to noticeably decline and his topline started to suffer as a result.

This is not true. The numbers were already shifting by around August, when the GOP primary got into full swing.

[pppolitics]

Yes, in that the Democrats were no longer able to ignore and marginalize their own MAGA faction. They demanded to be heard, their genocidal demands in full view of the world. It will be harder for Biden to win with them actively trying to defeat him from within, but if he pulls it off, the party will be stronger.

I don't buy that this is the reason why he's struggling in the polls, though. The border and economic "vibes" probably have more to do with it.

50% of Biden voters said that Israel is committing genocide, compared to 20% of Biden voters who said that Israel isn't.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Not a major one, but definitely added to Biden's problem of lukewarm early support.

[Tekken_Guy]

That's when Biden's numbers with young voters started to noticeably decline and his topline started to suffer as a result.

This is not true. The numbers were already shifting by around August, when the GOP primary got into full swing.

I wonder if the polling movement towards Trump was him consolidating his base rather than Biden slipping with his?

[OSR stands with Israel]

It's not so much October 7, but what happened after.

Biden completely botched his response to it, to say the least. (A dumpster fire would be more appropriate description.)

Even his aid has admitted as such:

The Biden aide, Jon Finer, a deputy national security adviser, offered some of the administration’s clearest expressions of regret for what he called “missteps” it had made from the beginning of the violence, and he pledged that it would do better.

During the meeting on Thursday with Arab American political leaders in Dearborn, Mich., Mr. Finer said, “We are very well aware that we have missteps in the course of responding to this crisis since Oct. 7,” according to a recording of the gathering obtained by The New York Times. A National Security Council official confirmed the recording was authentic.

Mr. Finer added: “We have left a very damaging impression based on what has been a wholly inadequate public accounting for how much the president, the administration and the country values the lives of Palestinians. And that began, frankly, pretty early in the conflict.”

[...]

Mr. Finer also said the Biden administration should have been faster to publicly condemn statements made by some Israeli officials that, in his words, compared “residents of Gaza to animals.” He said officials had not done so because they were trying to work with the Israeli government.

[...]

He did not clarify which Israeli officials he was referring to, but in the conflict’s early days, Yoav Gallant, the Israeli defense minister, said, “We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly.” Some other Israeli officials have also faced criticism for dehumanizing language.

Mr. Finer’s most explicit note of contrition was for a statement released under Mr. Biden’s name on Jan. 14, marking 100 days since the conflict began. The statement focused on the plight of American and Israeli hostages being held in Gaza and made no reference to Palestinians who had been killed.

“It did not in any way address the loss of Palestinian life during the course of the first 100 days of the conflict,” Mr. Finer said. “There is no excuse for that. It should not have happened. I believe it will not happen again. But we know that there was a lot of damage done.”

Mr. Finer, who declined to comment, is the second-ranking official on the National Security Council, under Jake Sullivan, who is Mr. Biden’s national security adviser.

[...]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/09/us/politics/biden-aide-israel-regret.html

If Biden supported Palestine he’d have lost far far more support than he did by supporting Israel . It’s not Biden’s fault that so many young people have been brainwashed to take horrific views on the issue

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Yes, in that the Democrats were no longer able to ignore and marginalize their own MAGA faction. They demanded to be heard, their genocidal demands in full view of the world. It will be harder for Biden to win with them actively trying to defeat him from within, but if he pulls it off, the party will be stronger.

I don't buy that this is the reason why he's struggling in the polls, though. The border and economic "vibes" probably have more to do with it.

50% of Biden voters said that Israel is committing genocide, compared to 20% of Biden voters who said that Israel isn't.

No, they don't. That was a wildly flawed push poll that was immediately discredited. I wonder what the poll numbers on "Biden should side with Hamas against a nuclear ally" would look like.

[Vice President Christian Man]

No, Biden was already faring poorly in the polls although 10/7 likely could've made the difference between a narrow Biden victory and a narrow Biden defeat.

[pppolitics]

It's not so much October 7, but what happened after.

Biden completely botched his response to it, to say the least. (A dumpster fire would be more appropriate description.)

Even his aid has admitted as such:

The Biden aide, Jon Finer, a deputy national security adviser, offered some of the administration’s clearest expressions of regret for what he called “missteps” it had made from the beginning of the violence, and he pledged that it would do better.

During the meeting on Thursday with Arab American political leaders in Dearborn, Mich., Mr. Finer said, “We are very well aware that we have missteps in the course of responding to this crisis since Oct. 7,” according to a recording of the gathering obtained by The New York Times. A National Security Council official confirmed the recording was authentic.

Mr. Finer added: “We have left a very damaging impression based on what has been a wholly inadequate public accounting for how much the president, the administration and the country values the lives of Palestinians. And that began, frankly, pretty early in the conflict.”

[...]

Mr. Finer also said the Biden administration should have been faster to publicly condemn statements made by some Israeli officials that, in his words, compared “residents of Gaza to animals.” He said officials had not done so because they were trying to work with the Israeli government.

[...]

He did not clarify which Israeli officials he was referring to, but in the conflict’s early days, Yoav Gallant, the Israeli defense minister, said, “We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly.” Some other Israeli officials have also faced criticism for dehumanizing language.

Mr. Finer’s most explicit note of contrition was for a statement released under Mr. Biden’s name on Jan. 14, marking 100 days since the conflict began. The statement focused on the plight of American and Israeli hostages being held in Gaza and made no reference to Palestinians who had been killed.

“It did not in any way address the loss of Palestinian life during the course of the first 100 days of the conflict,” Mr. Finer said. “There is no excuse for that. It should not have happened. I believe it will not happen again. But we know that there was a lot of damage done.”

Mr. Finer, who declined to comment, is the second-ranking official on the National Security Council, under Jake Sullivan, who is Mr. Biden’s national security adviser.

[...]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/09/us/politics/biden-aide-israel-regret.html

If Biden supported Palestine he’d have lost far far more support than he did by supporting Israel . It’s not Biden’s fault that so many young people have been brainwashed to take horrific views on the issue

There is this thing called the Internet.

Nowadays, anyone can post videos of Israel's war crimes for the world to see.

Tradition news outlets can no longer act as sole gatekeepers.

Young people are the most connected generations and we are disgusted by what we see Israel is doing.

[jaichind]

For sure it does not help the Biden cause as it split his base down the middle

[SnowLabrador]

At the time, no. In hindsight, absolutely.