SB:119-25: Double Majority Amendment
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  SB:119-25: Double Majority Amendment
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Author Topic: SB:119-25: Double Majority Amendment  (Read 390 times)
Vice President Christian Man
Christian Man
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« on: February 03, 2024, 11:01:17 PM »
« edited: February 17, 2024, 10:20:26 PM by Whip of Peace Christian Man »

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Double Majority Amendment
Be It Resolved in the Atlasian Senate Assembled, that upon ratification by 2/3rds of the Regions, the Fifth Constitution of Atlasia shall be amended as follows:


Quote
Article IX, Section 1 of the Atlasian Constitution shall be amended as follows:

Quote
Section 1. Amendment.

The Senate, whenever two thirds of its membership shall deem it necessary, shall have power to propose amendments to this Constitution, which shall take effect following their ratification by two thirds of the several Regions, provided a majority of the voters nationwide also approve the Amendment.

Quote
Amendment Explanation

This amendment requires that a majority of the popular vote also agree to a constitutional amendment instead of merely a majority of the popular vote in two Regions.


The senator from Missouri is recognized.
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reagente
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2024, 11:48:27 PM »

Reworded this amendment slightly compared to the last edition for clarity. It should be common sense that Amendments to the Constitution cannot pass without majority support nationwide.
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Pyro
PyroTheFox
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2024, 12:43:10 PM »

As I stated when this was originally introduced...

The current process to enact a Constitutional amendment is sufficient in ensuring the population of Atlasia approves. I see no reason to add complexity when the process as-is works just fine.
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fhtagn
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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2024, 09:32:23 PM »

As I stated when this was originally introduced...

The current process to enact a Constitutional amendment is sufficient in ensuring the population of Atlasia approves. I see no reason to add complexity when the process as-is works just fine.

The current process allows us to have an amendment ratified that failed in the nationwide popular vote 65-35 but only passed because it got a 2 vote majority in a region where there were only 8 valid votes.

How can it reasonably be argued that the current process works just fine?
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GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB
weatherboy1102
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2024, 09:57:58 PM »

I could support requiring a certain % of each region, say, 30 or 40%, to turn out for the vote to be valid. But the idea being presented here would just reward further zombification of the game, in my view.
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Pyro
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2024, 03:15:35 PM »

Motion for a final vote.
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fhtagn
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2024, 10:12:26 PM »


Pure laziness.
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Pyro
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2024, 10:50:04 PM »


There's been no debate on this for 3 days - What would you prefer?
I've already made my own stance on this clear.
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fhtagn
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2024, 10:52:40 PM »


There's been no debate on this for 3 days - What would you prefer?
I've already made my own stance on this clear.

Actually answering questions when they've been asked instead of dodging.
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Pyro
PyroTheFox
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2024, 11:04:51 PM »


There's been no debate on this for 3 days - What would you prefer?
I've already made my own stance on this clear.

Actually answering questions when they've been asked instead of dodging.

I oppose this change to the Constitution as the present system allows for an equal voice among citizens of the three regions. As argued by Senator WB, and in the previous debate by Senator LT, the text as-is would only incentivize the packing of zombies into a single region and further deteriorate the game. Turnout is a valid concern, and one we could address as a precondition to allow an amendment to pass, but passing this will do nothing to remedy that.
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fhtagn
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2024, 12:04:05 AM »


There's been no debate on this for 3 days - What would you prefer?
I've already made my own stance on this clear.

Actually answering questions when they've been asked instead of dodging.

I oppose this change to the Constitution as the present system allows for an equal voice among citizens of the three regions. As argued by Senator WB, and in the previous debate by Senator LT, the text as-is would only incentivize the packing of zombies into a single region and further deteriorate the game. Turnout is a valid concern, and one we could address as a precondition to allow an amendment to pass, but passing this will do nothing to remedy that.

You still didn't answer my question

The current process allows us to have an amendment ratified that failed in the nationwide popular vote 65-35 but only passed because it got a 2 vote majority in a region where there were only 8 valid votes.

How can it reasonably be argued that the current process works just fine?


Nothing about the current system allows for an equal voice among citizens of the three regions when it allows a 2 vote majority among 8 valid votes in a region to cause a Constitutional Amendment to pass.

The current system arguably does more to incentivize zombies and has proven to be more abusive.

It's also worth noting this argument that you're clearly ignoring, probably because it proves your argument invalid.

We shouldn't be incentivizing the packing of zombies into one region. In fact, we should do the opposite.

This amendment doesn't do that.

Current Rules: 2/3 regions pass the amendment
This amendment: 2/3 regions pass the amendment, AND it has a majority of the NPV.

Under neither set of rules is packing everyone you support into one region conducive to achieving policy.
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fhtagn
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2024, 12:16:49 AM »

Even if the Senators pretending they actually care about parties packing people into a single region is a threat, take a look at the last posted census:

Atlasia Census
December 7, 2023


DAFedLabLibNKTPaxSNPIndOthTotal
Lincoln11 (---)8 (---)15 (---)4 (---)2 (---)13 (---)1 (---)6 (---)0 (---)60 (---)
South0 (---)10 (---)2 (---)0 (---)0 (---)7 (---)41 (---)2 (▲1)0 (---)62 (▲1)
Fremont2 (▲1)5 (---)6 (---)0 (---)1 (---)15 (▲1)0 (---)6 (---)5 (▼2)40 (---)
Total13 (▲1)23 (---)23 (---)4 (---)3 (---)35 (▲1)42 (---)14 (▲1)5 (▼2)162 (▲1)



DAFedLabLibNKTPaxSNPIndOthTotal
Northeast4 (---)2 (---)8 (---)4 (---)2 (---)13 (---)0 (---)3 (---)0 (---)36 (---)
Great Lakes7 (---)6 (---)7 (---)0 (---)0 (---)0 (---)1 (---)3 (---)0 (---)24 (---)
Upper South0 (---)6 (---)0 (---)0 (---)0 (---)4 (---)24 (---)1 (---)0 (---)35 (---)
Deep South0 (---)4 (---)2 (---)0 (---)0 (---)3 (---)17 (---)1 (▲1)0 (---)27 (▲1)
Mountain West2 (▲1)4 (---)1 (---)0 (---)1 (---)8 (▲1)0 (---)4 (---)2 (▼2)22 (---)
Pacific0 (---)1 (---)5 (---)0 (---)0 (---)7 (---)0 (---)2 (---)3 (---)18 (---)
Total13 (▲1)23 (---)23 (---)4 (---)3 (---)35 (▲1)42 (---)14 (▲1)5 (▼2)162 (▲1)


Out of 162 people registered in the game, the SNP only had 42 voters. It's clear that isn't enough to stop a Constitutional Amendment if it's truly something Atlasians in all the regions wanted.

At what point will you guys admit you're just wrong on the issue?
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Pyro
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2024, 03:28:32 PM »

With no objection to the motion, a final vote is now open on this legislation.

Quote
Quote
Quote
Double Majority Amendment
Be It Resolved in the Atlasian Senate Assembled, that upon ratification by 2/3rds of the Regions, the Fifth Constitution of Atlasia shall be amended as follows:


Quote
Article IX, Section 1 of the Atlasian Constitution shall be amended as follows:

Quote
Section 1. Amendment.

The Senate, whenever two thirds of its membership shall deem it necessary, shall have power to propose amendments to this Constitution, which shall take effect following their ratification by two thirds of the several Regions, provided a majority of the voters nationwide also approve the Amendment.

Quote
Amendment Explanation

This amendment requires that a majority of the popular vote also agree to a constitutional amendment instead of merely a majority of the popular vote in two Regions.

Nay
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fhtagn
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2024, 04:59:59 PM »

Aye
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GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB
weatherboy1102
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2024, 07:27:49 PM »

Nay for the reasons I stated during debate
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Vice President Christian Man
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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2024, 07:50:45 PM »

Nay
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RFayette
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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2024, 02:46:35 PM »

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reagente
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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2024, 02:48:15 PM »

Aye
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ChiefFireWaterMike
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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2024, 03:33:00 PM »

aye
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Jay 🏳️‍⚧️
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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2024, 04:53:38 PM »

Nay
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Coastal Elitist
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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2024, 05:55:22 PM »

Aye
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At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder
LouisvilleThunder
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« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2024, 06:37:33 PM »

Nay
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2024, 07:38:50 PM »

Nay
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nerd73
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« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2024, 09:03:43 PM »

Nay
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Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)
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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2024, 05:50:40 AM »

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