Poll: Does ISIS act of their own agency, or are they a mercenary group?

[GeneralMacArthur]

Thanks to Putin administration propaganda around the Crocus City Hall attack, the predominant opinion on social media now appears to be that ISIS is a group that does whatever Ukraine and its western allies say.

This is of course how Putin is angling to claim that Ukraine bears responsibility for the attack and that his subsequent atrocities in Ukraine will be justifiable as a retaliatory response.

For those of us who pay attention to these things, we saw the groundwork for this being laid starting yesterday evening, hours before Putin's speech, as his social media propaganda networks began spreading this BS to try and get everyone on board before Putin "confirmed" what they had already decided to believe.

Like when I saw people in the Ben Norton, Caitlin Johnstone, Glenn Greenwald, Aaron Maté camp "just asking questions" to suggest that Israel or America "may have" ordered ISIS to commit the attack, I knew already that Putin was probably going to give a speech soon announcing that ISIS was a mercenary group hired by Ukraine, at the behest of America, to commit the attack.  Because it's just become so obvious how this propaganda network operates.

For example, here is anti-American sh-thead Ryan Grim, a free and independent thinker who just so happens to always think the exact same free and independent thoughts as the Putin Administration, implying that not only is ISIS a well-known mercenary group frequently hired by state actors to commit false flag attacks to advance western interests, it was also hired by the government of Pakistan for the same purpose.

https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1771582712207302962

[Hindsight was 2020]

Beyond the ridiculous notion that ISIS is a mercenary group they really want us to believe that Ukraine organized a terrorist attack that deep in Moscow and would waste it on a random attack on civilians over high value government officials?

[GeneralMacArthur]

Beyond the ridiculous notion that ISIS is a mercenary group they really want us to believe that Ukraine organized a terrorist attack that deep in Moscow and would waste it on a random attack on civilians over high value government officials?

This poll is 4-3 so apparently not that ridiculous.

Our society really is doomed.  It's the fundamental flaw of democracy in the last decade.  Democracy only works when people are capable of making good decisions, and decisions are based on information, so for your decisions to be good you need good information.  But thanks to social media and the complicity of the Republican Party, evil foreign regimes like Russia, China and Hamas are able to not only flood the American consciousness with bad information, but also become experts on manipulating us so that we'll invent bad information when we don't have it, and reject good information when it's given to us.  As a result, we operate in a space of terrible information, and make terrible decisions, which undermines our country and the Pax Americana.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Beyond the ridiculous notion that ISIS is a mercenary group they really want us to believe that Ukraine organized a terrorist attack that deep in Moscow and would waste it on a random attack on civilians over high value government officials?

This poll is 4-3 so apparently not that ridiculous.

Our society really is doomed.  It's the fundamental flaw of democracy in the last decade.  Democracy only works when people are capable of making good decisions, and decisions are based on information, so for your decisions to be good you need good information.  But thanks to social media and the complicity of the Republican Party, evil foreign regimes like Russia, China and Hamas are able to not only flood the American consciousness with bad information, but also become experts on manipulating us so that we'll invent bad information when we don't have it, and reject good information when it's given to us.  As a result, we operate in a space of terrible information, and make terrible decisions, which undermines our country and the Pax Americana.

It could just be people saying they’re a mercenary group to troll you

[DavidB.]

Those pro-Russia conspiracy theorists always fail to explain why some of the biggest ISIS terrorist attacks took place in countries like France and Belgium, which are part of the heart of the West?

Instead, when ISIS attacks in the West, we hear a different story from the pro-Russian conspiracy theorists, depending on their target audience. When the target audience is leftist, they will regurgitate the Third Worldist line of reasoning that the West has been mean to the entire 'non-West' (which of course is a monolith), of which Russia is supposedly obviously part and the big defender. When the target audience is right-wing, they will focus on how Russia is supposedly a bulwark of Christianity, tradition and order.

[Vosem]

https://twitter.com/nezumi_ningen/status/1771616649566650523

[Cassius]

The men who did the shooting were Tajiks (as far as I'm aware), which lends some credibility to the claims that ISIS-K were involved, but lets remember that ISIS and its mouthpiece, Amaq, always claim responsibility for Islamist-type terror attacks, regardless of how involved the 'high command' were and ISIS-K have shown no ability so far to organise attacks so far from their main area of operations in Afghanistan.

Meanwhile, it's hardly implausible for Ukrainian intelligence to have been involved in some capacity. The SBU has well-established links to anti-Russian/Islamist groups of Chechens, Ingush and others (and of course there have been a large numbers of volunteers from these and adjacent groups fighting for Ukraine since 2014) and the van containing the terrorists was picked up heading towards the Ukrainian border.  The modus operandi of the terrorists allegedly being paid and then trying to escape capture also doesn't really gel with how most Islamist terror attacks have historically been conducted.

Doesn't mean that this was ordered by Zelensky or even Budanov, and the claims of CIA involvement seem fairly laughable given the US government's efforts to get the Ukrainians to cool off their campaign against Russian infrastructure. A more likely possibility is that this was cooked up by some low level SBU people in co-operation with their Islamist friends inside Russia in order to make Putin look weak (by striking inside Moscow) and to stir up the issue of Tajik (and other Central Asian) immigration, which is a bit of a tinderbox and a sore spot for many ordinary Russians (as well as, of course, the far-right).

[Hindsight was 2020]

The men who did the shooting were Tajiks (as far as I'm aware), which lends some credibility to the claims that ISIS-K were involved, but lets remember that ISIS and its mouthpiece, Amaq, always claim responsibility for Islamist-type terror attacks, regardless of how involved the 'high command' were and ISIS-K have shown no ability so far to organise attacks so far from their main area of operations in Afghanistan.

Meanwhile, it's hardly implausible for Ukrainian intelligence to have been involved in some capacity. The SBU has well-established links to anti-Russian/Islamist groups of Chechens, Ingush and others (and of course there have been a large numbers of volunteers from these and adjacent groups fighting for Ukraine since 2014) and the van containing the terrorists was picked up heading towards the Ukrainian border.  The modus operandi of the terrorists allegedly being paid and then trying to escape capture also doesn't really gel with how most Islamist terror attacks have historically been conducted.

Doesn't mean that this was ordered by Zelensky or even Budanov, and the claims of CIA involvement seem fairly laughable given the US government's efforts to get the Ukrainians to cool off their campaign against Russian infrastructure. A more likely possibility is that this was cooked up by some low level SBU people in co-operation with their Islamist friends inside Russia in order to make Putin look weak (by striking inside Moscow) and to stir up the issue of Tajik (and other Central Asian) immigration, which is a bit of a tinderbox and a sore spot for many ordinary Russians (as well as, of course, the far-right).

There is no proof that is true and Russia has every reason to lie about it

[ProudModerate2]

Well, if you want to start believing in Putin, then they are a group controlled by Ukraine.

[PSOL]

There are indeed a lot of plants among the global Islamist movement, and recent posturing does indicate that at minimum they are useful idiots.

[Cassius]

The men who did the shooting were Tajiks (as far as I'm aware), which lends some credibility to the claims that ISIS-K were involved, but lets remember that ISIS and its mouthpiece, Amaq, always claim responsibility for Islamist-type terror attacks, regardless of how involved the 'high command' were and ISIS-K have shown no ability so far to organise attacks so far from their main area of operations in Afghanistan.

Meanwhile, it's hardly implausible for Ukrainian intelligence to have been involved in some capacity. The SBU has well-established links to anti-Russian/Islamist groups of Chechens, Ingush and others (and of course there have been a large numbers of volunteers from these and adjacent groups fighting for Ukraine since 2014) and the van containing the terrorists was picked up heading towards the Ukrainian border.  The modus operandi of the terrorists allegedly being paid and then trying to escape capture also doesn't really gel with how most Islamist terror attacks have historically been conducted.

Doesn't mean that this was ordered by Zelensky or even Budanov, and the claims of CIA involvement seem fairly laughable given the US government's efforts to get the Ukrainians to cool off their campaign against Russian infrastructure. A more likely possibility is that this was cooked up by some low level SBU people in co-operation with their Islamist friends inside Russia in order to make Putin look weak (by striking inside Moscow) and to stir up the issue of Tajik (and other Central Asian) immigration, which is a bit of a tinderbox and a sore spot for many ordinary Russians (as well as, of course, the far-right).

There is no proof that is true and Russia has every reason to lie about it

My understanding is that they were apprehended in Bryansk Oblast - could be bullsh**t certainly, but if not then realistically the chances that they were hoofing it to the Ukraine border seem reasonable. Doesn’t necessarily mean that the Ukrainians were involved, but worth keeping in mind.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Ah, I see Grim and other “anti-imperialists” are still sore about the useful-until-he-wasn’t idiot fascist being ousted in Pakistan.

At least he isn’t claiming that the US was responsible for the attack at the rally.

[GeneralMacArthur]

The results of this poll are really quite disturbing and shows that a lot of you have terminal brainpsols.

[Frodo]

Oh good -I can come back without being timed out. Whooppee!

Beyond the ridiculous notion that ISIS is a mercenary group they really want us to believe that Ukraine organized a terrorist attack that deep in Moscow and would waste it on a random attack on civilians over high value government officials?

This poll is 4-3 so apparently not that ridiculous.

Our society really is doomed.  It's the fundamental flaw of democracy in the last decade.  Democracy only works when people are capable of making good decisions, and decisions are based on information, so for your decisions to be good you need good information.  But thanks to social media and the complicity of the Republican Party, evil foreign regimes like Russia, China and Hamas are able to not only flood the American consciousness with bad information, but also become experts on manipulating us so that we'll invent bad information when we don't have it, and reject good information when it's given to us.  As a result, we operate in a space of terrible information, and make terrible decisions, which undermines our country and the Pax Americana.

It could just be people saying they’re a mercenary group to troll you

Or they might genuinely believe Putin's claims that Ukraine had something to do with the terrorist attack against all evidence to the contrary just because he said it, just like those same people might already believe President Biden stole the 2020 election simply because Trump said he did despite the fact all evidence points out Trump is a liar.  Never underestimate the power of propaganda and the gullibility of people to swallow it whole.  

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

They're separate, but Obama's Syria policy was clearly pro ISIS.

[AtorBoltox]

They're separate, but Obama's Syria policy was clearly pro ISIS.

The rhetoric of the 'anti-interventionist left' over Syria makes it very hard to believe their anguish over Palestine is sincere

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

They're separate, but Obama's Syria policy was clearly pro ISIS.

The rhetoric of the 'anti-interventionist left' over Syria makes it very hard to believe their anguish over Palestine is sincere

The hawks wanted to fight Assad, which only helped ISIS.

[AtorBoltox]

They're separate, but Obama's Syria policy was clearly pro ISIS.

The rhetoric of the 'anti-interventionist left' over Syria makes it very hard to believe their anguish over Palestine is sincere

The hawks wanted to fight Assad, which only helped ISIS.

You keep proving my point

[GeneralMacArthur]

The idiot brigade is on it like butter on toast.  Here's the right-wing equivalent of Ryan Grim pursuing the exact same story.

https://twitter.com/RealAlexJones/status/1771555298286649732

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1771545163732496857

[Hindsight was 2020]

“Central Asian is a bunch of inbreed low iq individuals” man I know BRTD made this point 2 years ago but it stills but it’s weird how Ukraine gets labeled a “Nazi” country when all actual Nazis support Russia

[CumbrianLefty]

They're separate, but Obama's Syria policy was clearly pro ISIS.

The rhetoric of the 'anti-interventionist left' over Syria makes it very hard to believe their anguish over Palestine is sincere

The hawks wanted to fight Assad, which only helped ISIS.

You keep proving my point

No, that is a totally respectable and arguable position - and you don't have to like Assad to hold it.

[It’s so Joever]

https://twitter.com/nezumi_ningen/status/1771616649566650523

The Onion made a skit on this regarding 9/11 and Al Qaeda a while back.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_OIXfkXEj0&pp=ygUXQWwgd2FlZmEgdGhlIG9uaW9uIDkvMTE%3D