Dems/leaners: Should Biden drop out?

[RilakkuMAGA]

I am not a Dem leaner, but I would vote for Newsom or Harris over any Republican besides Trump, so if I voted, I'd vote Yes.

[7,052,770]

Plenty of people want him to drop put, no one seems to want to advocate for a replacement. Harris and Newsom are both rather weak. Those that really want him gone if they are sincere need to come up with the alternative and fast.

A "replacement" should be chosen through the normal primary process, just like every election cycle without the incumbent running. I could easily list 6-8 stronger candidates off the top of my head (and have in other threads), but the voters should decide.

The voters will decide anyway. But if you have an active opinion that Biden should drop out and think it's important, then you should come up with an alternative. It is much harder to oppose something with nothing. If you want him out you need pressure, and there's not going to be sufficient pressure without a clear alternative.

Any of the following (and I’m sure several more if I thought a little harder):
- Wes Moore
- Steve Beshear
- Tammy Duckworth
- Raphael Warnock
- Mark Kelly
- Wes Moore
- Gretchen Whitmer
- Jared Polis
- Josh Shapiro

Why any of these people would risk their future careers as a sacrificial lamb candidate is beyond me, and Democrats poisoning the well when these people are still needed in their current role or to be used elsewhere is suicidal.

Biden is the candidate chosen to deal with the Trump question in 2020, he's the least risk option at this point unless you want to appear even weaker downballot. If you want, you can find some sacrificial lamb to be brought in during a brokered convention–Laura Kelly seems doable as an inoffensive candidate–but be prepared to deal with the consequences of it turning into a media circus because it will be a general s•••show.

I’m absolutely not saying any of these people should run -against- Biden.  I’m saying they are stronger alternatives if Biden retires.

If 75% or whatever of Democratic voters actually want a different candidate than Biden, these candidates shouldn't be afraid of running against him. The fact that nobody but Dean Phillips is willing to do so tells me that none of those guys really believe that Biden's situation is so dire.

No one said democratic voters were in touch with reality. The reality is we are doomed if we don't run someone else. Period. You can put your fingers in your ears and cry about ageism and how unfair it is but reality is reality. Biden is unpopular, he's damaged beyond belief and we need to pass the torch to anybody else. Whitmer, Beshear, and again, even Newsom or Harris would be better at this point!

I've posted in other threads about why it is not possible for another Dem to run against Biden.
Biden has been a very good president, and most Democrats believe this.  The only reason he shouldn't be the nominee is that he is too old.

But you just can't run a campaign on this message.  You simply can't run an ad saying "My opponent has been a great president, and I agree with him on everything.  But he's probably going to die soon, so vote for me!"

A lot of Democratic voters agree with the sentiment in the back of their minds.  But you can't say it in a campaign.  It's just too morbid and would immediate turn off voters for speaking the unspeakable out loud.  It's something that Biden needs to come to terms with himself, and it's really disheartening given his long career of terrific public service that he apparently isn't willing to do it.

I disagree. If it's really true that 75% of Democratic voters want someone other than Biden and like 15% of the country will vote Trump over Biden but otherwise any Democrat over Trump, Newsom should be able to enter the race and beat Biden for the nomination.

I think those premises aren't really true in the first place and Newsom would lose, and I think Newsom agrees with me, but if they are actually true, the door is wide open for Newsom.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I don't understand how people keep misinterpreting what I'm saying.
My thesis is that the majority of Democrats (a) like Biden and don't want anyone running a negative campaign against him; and also (b) think he's too old to run again and want him to retire.

Both halves of this are both completely sensible and also consistent with every poll we've been seeing.

And yet somehow a lot of people think this combination of beliefs is impossible despite the fact this is exactly what Dems have been telling pollsters for months. And so we just have to ignore all the data because it can't be reconciled with your a priori beliefs?

[Comrade Funk]

I don't understand how people keep misinterpreting what I'm saying.
My thesis is that the majority of Democrats (a) like Biden and don't want anyone running a negative campaign against him; and also (b) think he's too old to run again and want him to retire.

Both halves of this are both completely sensible and also consistent with every poll we've been seeing.

And yet somehow a lot of people think this combination of beliefs is impossible despite the fact this is exactly what Dems have been telling pollsters for months. And so we just have to ignore all the data because it can't be reconciled with your a priori beliefs?

Hacks will wave away any kind of criticism towards their candidate (this goes for Trump sycophants even more so). Hand waving Biden's age is nothing short of hackery. 

[pabloni21]

biden’s… fine but my ideal ticket for this point in time would be something like whitmer/warnock

frankly i want my new deal liberals back 

[7,052,770]

I don't understand how people keep misinterpreting what I'm saying.
My thesis is that the majority of Democrats (a) like Biden and don't want anyone running a negative campaign against him; and also (b) think he's too old to run again and want him to retire.

Both halves of this are both completely sensible and also consistent with every poll we've been seeing.

And yet somehow a lot of people think this combination of beliefs is impossible despite the fact this is exactly what Dems have been telling pollsters for months. And so we just have to ignore all the data because it can't be reconciled with your a priori beliefs?

We understand your point, we just don't agree with it. If the "75% of Democrats don't want Biden to be the nominee" polls are true, then Newsom would beat Biden head to head in a primary, and even a generic unknown like Phillips would have a good shot.

I think you're bending over backward to come up with a way for those polls to be true even when we all know that Biden is going to win the nomination in a landslide anyway and Newsom won't even try. Is there really reliable polling data that goes deeply into the thoughts and motivations of those 75% who want Biden replaced and explains why they're still voting for him anyway? Or are you just projecting your own personal opinions onto tens of millions of Americans?

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I don't understand how people keep misinterpreting what I'm saying.
My thesis is that the majority of Democrats (a) like Biden and don't want anyone running a negative campaign against him; and also (b) think he's too old to run again and want him to retire.

Both halves of this are both completely sensible and also consistent with every poll we've been seeing.

And yet somehow a lot of people think this combination of beliefs is impossible despite the fact this is exactly what Dems have been telling pollsters for months. And so we just have to ignore all the data because it can't be reconciled with your a priori beliefs?

We understand your point, we just don't agree with it. If the "75% of Democrats don't want Biden to be the nominee" polls are true, then Newsom would beat Biden head to head in a primary, and even a generic unknown like Phillips would have a good shot.

I think you're bending over backward to come up with a way for those polls to be true even when we all know that Biden is going to win the nomination in a landslide anyway and Newsom won't even try. Is there really reliable polling data that goes deeply into the thoughts and motivations of those 75% who want Biden replaced and explains why they're still voting for him anyway? Or are you just projecting your own personal opinions onto tens of millions of Americans?

You're the one bending over backwards to just ignore polls that don't confirm your prior beliefs.
All of the data we have is on my side here.  Is it really so hard to understand that not everyone thinks about politics in the exact same way that you do?

[7,052,770]

I don't understand how people keep misinterpreting what I'm saying.
My thesis is that the majority of Democrats (a) like Biden and don't want anyone running a negative campaign against him; and also (b) think he's too old to run again and want him to retire.

Both halves of this are both completely sensible and also consistent with every poll we've been seeing.

And yet somehow a lot of people think this combination of beliefs is impossible despite the fact this is exactly what Dems have been telling pollsters for months. And so we just have to ignore all the data because it can't be reconciled with your a priori beliefs?

We understand your point, we just don't agree with it. If the "75% of Democrats don't want Biden to be the nominee" polls are true, then Newsom would beat Biden head to head in a primary, and even a generic unknown like Phillips would have a good shot.

I think you're bending over backward to come up with a way for those polls to be true even when we all know that Biden is going to win the nomination in a landslide anyway and Newsom won't even try. Is there really reliable polling data that goes deeply into the thoughts and motivations of those 75% who want Biden replaced and explains why they're still voting for him anyway? Or are you just projecting your own personal opinions onto tens of millions of Americans?

You're the one bending over backwards to just ignore polls that don't confirm your prior beliefs.
All of the data we have is on my side here.  Is it really so hard to understand that not everyone thinks about politics in the exact same way that you do?

"All the data" ??  What data? There's a poll that deep dives into the supposed 75% of Democrats that want Biden replaced and details how they actually do like him and will vote for him anyway? I can accept whatever poll as a data point, but I'm not going to spin a whole narrative to tie some data point together.

Ultimately the only data that really matters is how the election results come in, and I've been fully transparent that I could be proven wrong on those. But when it likely turns out that Biden beats Phillips like 90-5 in the contested primaries, that's damningly strong evidence against the 75% polls.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I don't understand how people keep misinterpreting what I'm saying.
My thesis is that the majority of Democrats (a) like Biden and don't want anyone running a negative campaign against him; and also (b) think he's too old to run again and want him to retire.

Both halves of this are both completely sensible and also consistent with every poll we've been seeing.

And yet somehow a lot of people think this combination of beliefs is impossible despite the fact this is exactly what Dems have been telling pollsters for months. And so we just have to ignore all the data because it can't be reconciled with your a priori beliefs?

We understand your point, we just don't agree with it. If the "75% of Democrats don't want Biden to be the nominee" polls are true, then Newsom would beat Biden head to head in a primary, and even a generic unknown like Phillips would have a good shot.

I think you're bending over backward to come up with a way for those polls to be true even when we all know that Biden is going to win the nomination in a landslide anyway and Newsom won't even try. Is there really reliable polling data that goes deeply into the thoughts and motivations of those 75% who want Biden replaced and explains why they're still voting for him anyway? Or are you just projecting your own personal opinions onto tens of millions of Americans?

You're the one bending over backwards to just ignore polls that don't confirm your prior beliefs.
All of the data we have is on my side here.  Is it really so hard to understand that not everyone thinks about politics in the exact same way that you do?

"All the data" ??  What data? There's a poll that deep dives into the supposed 75% of Democrats that want Biden replaced and details how they actually do like him and will vote for him anyway? I can accept whatever poll as a data point, but I'm not going to spin a whole narrative to tie some data point together.

Ultimately the only data that really matters is how the election results come in, and I've been fully transparent that I could be proven wrong on those. But when it likely turns out that Biden beats Phillips like 90-5 in the contested primaries, that's damningly strong evidence against the 75% polls.

You can't understand that a lot of people want Biden to retire, but also don't want to see some rando Dem congressman attacking him every day?

[Bush did 311]

I cannot pretend to know what the best strategy is.

I think Biden staying in has its merits. Lefties are going to have to drop their favorite pasttime of pointing out flaws to establish academic superiority if that's the goal. They will have to sweep their gripes under the rug and unite behind Biden and attack Trump and stand firm by the message that Biden has been clear better, and a 2nd Trump term would be a disaster for democracy.

They don't want to do that though, and it's suicidal.

Is there a strong candidate to swap Biden out for? Maybe but the process of holding a last minute primary now would look like a mess. Better to swap them for VP, then have Biden step down for health reasons around june if polls haven't recovered.

[7,052,770]

I don't understand how people keep misinterpreting what I'm saying.
My thesis is that the majority of Democrats (a) like Biden and don't want anyone running a negative campaign against him; and also (b) think he's too old to run again and want him to retire.

Both halves of this are both completely sensible and also consistent with every poll we've been seeing.

And yet somehow a lot of people think this combination of beliefs is impossible despite the fact this is exactly what Dems have been telling pollsters for months. And so we just have to ignore all the data because it can't be reconciled with your a priori beliefs?

We understand your point, we just don't agree with it. If the "75% of Democrats don't want Biden to be the nominee" polls are true, then Newsom would beat Biden head to head in a primary, and even a generic unknown like Phillips would have a good shot.

I think you're bending over backward to come up with a way for those polls to be true even when we all know that Biden is going to win the nomination in a landslide anyway and Newsom won't even try. Is there really reliable polling data that goes deeply into the thoughts and motivations of those 75% who want Biden replaced and explains why they're still voting for him anyway? Or are you just projecting your own personal opinions onto tens of millions of Americans?

You're the one bending over backwards to just ignore polls that don't confirm your prior beliefs.
All of the data we have is on my side here.  Is it really so hard to understand that not everyone thinks about politics in the exact same way that you do?

"All the data" ??  What data? There's a poll that deep dives into the supposed 75% of Democrats that want Biden replaced and details how they actually do like him and will vote for him anyway? I can accept whatever poll as a data point, but I'm not going to spin a whole narrative to tie some data point together.

Ultimately the only data that really matters is how the election results come in, and I've been fully transparent that I could be proven wrong on those. But when it likely turns out that Biden beats Phillips like 90-5 in the contested primaries, that's damningly strong evidence against the 75% polls.

You can't understand that a lot of people want Biden to retire, but also don't want to see some rando Dem congressman attacking him every day?

Of course I can understand some people thinking that. But 70% of the Democratic electorate? Tens of millions of people?

Much more likely that it's a combination of bad polling methodology and people just reporting fleeting thoughts rather than firm convictions. If someone really wants Biden not to be the nominee, they'll vote for Phillips. He's a generic and credible challenger who isn't being too rough with his attacks, even saying that Biden is a good president but just needs to step aside for someone with a better shot of beating Trump. He's not a nut like Williamson or a complete freakshow like RFK.

Ultimately we'll find out at the ballot box in a few months, but I suspect Biden will win in a bloodbath landslide because the polls that most Democrats don't want him to be the nominee weren't really true. Or maybe I'm wrong and Phillips will give him a tough fight.

[Comrade Funk]

I don't understand how people keep misinterpreting what I'm saying.
My thesis is that the majority of Democrats (a) like Biden and don't want anyone running a negative campaign against him; and also (b) think he's too old to run again and want him to retire.

Both halves of this are both completely sensible and also consistent with every poll we've been seeing.

And yet somehow a lot of people think this combination of beliefs is impossible despite the fact this is exactly what Dems have been telling pollsters for months. And so we just have to ignore all the data because it can't be reconciled with your a priori beliefs?

We understand your point, we just don't agree with it. If the "75% of Democrats don't want Biden to be the nominee" polls are true, then Newsom would beat Biden head to head in a primary, and even a generic unknown like Phillips would have a good shot.

I think you're bending over backward to come up with a way for those polls to be true even when we all know that Biden is going to win the nomination in a landslide anyway and Newsom won't even try. Is there really reliable polling data that goes deeply into the thoughts and motivations of those 75% who want Biden replaced and explains why they're still voting for him anyway? Or are you just projecting your own personal opinions onto tens of millions of Americans?

You're the one bending over backwards to just ignore polls that don't confirm your prior beliefs.
All of the data we have is on my side here.  Is it really so hard to understand that not everyone thinks about politics in the exact same way that you do?

"All the data" ??  What data? There's a poll that deep dives into the supposed 75% of Democrats that want Biden replaced and details how they actually do like him and will vote for him anyway? I can accept whatever poll as a data point, but I'm not going to spin a whole narrative to tie some data point together.

Ultimately the only data that really matters is how the election results come in, and I've been fully transparent that I could be proven wrong on those. But when it likely turns out that Biden beats Phillips like 90-5 in the contested primaries, that's damningly strong evidence against the 75% polls.

You can't understand that a lot of people want Biden to retire, but also don't want to see some rando Dem congressman attacking him every day?

Of course I can understand some people thinking that. But 70% of the Democratic electorate? Tens of millions of people?

Much more likely that it's a combination of bad polling methodology and people just reporting fleeting thoughts rather than firm convictions. If someone really wants Biden not to be the nominee, they'll vote for Phillips. He's a generic and credible challenger who isn't being too rough with his attacks, even saying that Biden is a good president but just needs to step aside for someone with a better shot of beating Trump. He's not a nut like Williamson or a complete freakshow like RFK.

Ultimately we'll find out at the ballot box in a few months, but I suspect Biden will win in a bloodbath landslide because the polls that most Democrats don't want him to be the nominee weren't really true. Or maybe I'm wrong and Phillips will give him a tough fight.

Or maybe turnout will be near zero, and the few people who do vote will have no idea who Dean Phillips effing is? Biden has close to zero enthusiasm (minus generic the 'not Trump' schtick). Beating Dean Phillips isn't some rallying victory hacks think it will be.

[MT Treasurer]

No one said democratic voters were in touch with reality.

I was just going to say: Can we please stop pretending that Democratic voters are somehow guaranteed to nominate the most "electable" candidate possible when they literally nominated a historically unpopular individual in 2016 and the one candidate capable of losing to the dumpster fire that was Donald Trump's 2016 presidential campaign?

Democratic voters (for now) will nominate the candidate party leadership wants them to nominate — this dynamic is the polar opposite of what is going on in the GOP because Democrats prioritize party, leadership, and unity over everything else. However, that doesn’t mean that leadership will always push for the most "electable" candidate. Just because Clyburn, Schumer and Pelosi want Biden doesn’t mean Biden would do better than the likes of Beshear, Whitmer or Polis in a GE.

Ultimately we'll find out at the ballot box in a few months, but I suspect Biden will win in a bloodbath landslide because the polls that most Democrats don't want him to be the nominee weren't really true.

Isn’t this the same logic as "Trump will win in a landslide because of his rallies and crowds"? Also, Biden's problems go way beyond Democratic enthusiasm — he still wins 85%+ of Democrats even in most polls which show him trailing badly in swing states such as PA and MI.

[7,052,770]

Isn’t this the same logic as "Trump will win in a landslide because of his rallies and crowds"?

No, it's the same argument as "If Trump beats Biden in a landslide next November, a hypothetical poll saying that 75% of voters didn't want Trump to win was probably wrong.

Also, Biden's problems go way beyond Democratic enthusiasm — he still wins 85%+ of Democrats even in most polls which show him trailing badly in swing states such as PA and MI.

That may be true, but it's not really relevant to the discussion at hand, which is only whether the polls suggesting that 75% or more of Democrats want someone other than Biden to be the nominee are correct or not. I suspect that they are not, because if they were Phillips would be getting more traction and Newsom would have probably jumped in, but there's still time for me to be proven wrong. Whether these polls are wrong intentionally, because of bad methodology, or because voters are telling pollsters things they don't sincerely believe is another question too which I don't know the answer.

[The Economy is Getting Worse]

A progressive should want to lose 2024, which will likely turn out to be another poisoned chalice (like 2020 was). Then, they will get their version of a tea party in 2026 as well as very favorable economic fundamentals in 2028.

[cherry mandarin]

we are triaging the WH

It's beyond me why any Democrats are apparently willing to even consider giving up on an election that's still a 50-50 proposition, a year away, and in which your preferred candidate can not only boast a number of structural advantages such as his incumbency, but is currently trailing by a mere 2 points if the polls are to be believed. But oh well, I guess you don't truly believe it's "the most important election of our lifetimes" after all.

A progressive should want to lose 2024, which will likely turn out to be another poisoned chalice. Then, they will get their version of a tea party

That's exactly what  people said  back in 2016  as well, however. And then  the party's primary electorate  ended up nominating  a milquetoast octogenarian centrist  four years onward, despite her loss. They voted for Biden  precisely because  they "misinterpreted"  Clinton's 2016 loss  as  "evidence" that  they needed to "moderate", in order to win back  the (historically Democratic-voting) white, working-class men  in  America's industrial heartland  that  they'd bled  away  to Trump.

[The Economy is Getting Worse]

we are triaging the WH

It's beyond me why any Democrats are apparently willing to even consider giving up on an election that's still a 50-50 proposition, a year away, and in which your preferred candidate can not only boast a number of structural advantages such as his incumbency, but is currently trailing by a mere 2 points if the polls are to be believed. But oh well, I guess you don't truly believe it's "the most important election of our lifetimes" after all.

A progressive should want to lose 2024, which will likely turn out to be another poisoned chalice. Then, they will get their version of a tea party

That's exactly what  people said  back in 2016  as well, however. And then  the party's primary electorate  ended up nominating  a milquetoast octogenarian centrist  four years onward, despite her loss. They voted for Biden  precisely because  they "misinterpreted"  Clinton's 2016 loss  as  "evidence" that  they needed to "moderate", in order to win back  the (historically Democratic-voting) white, working-class men  in  America's industrial heartland  that  they'd bled  away  to Trump.

The economy got better from 2016 to 2020 (COVID lockdowns didn't happen yet by Super Tuesday), hence promoting the establishment relatively (and even then they needed to get everyone else to drop out otherwise Sanders would have still won). The economy is likely to get much worse.

I don't see the election as a 50-50 proposition; I think it's probably 25-75 (with Biden having a 60% chance in a normal economy and a 20% chance in a recession).

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Isn’t this the same logic as "Trump will win in a landslide because of his rallies and crowds"?

No, it's the same argument as "If Trump beats Biden in a landslide next November, a hypothetical poll saying that 75% of voters didn't want Trump to win was probably wrong.

Also, Biden's problems go way beyond Democratic enthusiasm — he still wins 85%+ of Democrats even in most polls which show him trailing badly in swing states such as PA and MI.

That may be true, but it's not really relevant to the discussion at hand, which is only whether the polls suggesting that 75% or more of Democrats want someone other than Biden to be the nominee are correct or not. I suspect that they are not, because if they were Phillips would be getting more traction and Newsom would have probably jumped in, but there's still time for me to be proven wrong. Whether these polls are wrong intentionally, because of bad methodology, or because voters are telling pollsters things they don't sincerely believe is another question too which I don't know the answer.

Can you imagine a scenario where a company would prefer that a well-liked long-time employee would retire, but don't feel they have grounds to fire them?  A lot of Dems feel the same way about Biden.

[cherry mandarin]

I’m curious as to why you quoted Moore twice.

And  I'm curious  as to  why  you listed  him  twice!

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I’m curious as to why you quoted Moore twice.

And  I'm curious  as to  why  you listed  him  twice!

Ha! Didn't notice that either....but we've never had a President from Maryland, so it is high time we finally got one!

[RussFeingoldWasRobbed]

Isn’t this the same logic as "Trump will win in a landslide because of his rallies and crowds"?

No, it's the same argument as "If Trump beats Biden in a landslide next November, a hypothetical poll saying that 75% of voters didn't want Trump to win was probably wrong.

Also, Biden's problems go way beyond Democratic enthusiasm — he still wins 85%+ of Democrats even in most polls which show him trailing badly in swing states such as PA and MI.

That may be true, but it's not really relevant to the discussion at hand, which is only whether the polls suggesting that 75% or more of Democrats want someone other than Biden to be the nominee are correct or not. I suspect that they are not, because if they were Phillips would be getting more traction and Newsom would have probably jumped in, but there's still time for me to be proven wrong. Whether these polls are wrong intentionally, because of bad methodology, or because voters are telling pollsters things they don't sincerely believe is another question too which I don't know the answer.

Can you imagine a scenario where a company would prefer that a well-liked long-time employee would retire, but don't feel they have grounds to fire them?  A lot of Dems feel the same way about Biden.

Arguing with Harry is pointless dude, don’t even bother

[7,052,770]

Isn’t this the same logic as "Trump will win in a landslide because of his rallies and crowds"?

No, it's the same argument as "If Trump beats Biden in a landslide next November, a hypothetical poll saying that 75% of voters didn't want Trump to win was probably wrong.

Also, Biden's problems go way beyond Democratic enthusiasm — he still wins 85%+ of Democrats even in most polls which show him trailing badly in swing states such as PA and MI.

That may be true, but it's not really relevant to the discussion at hand, which is only whether the polls suggesting that 75% or more of Democrats want someone other than Biden to be the nominee are correct or not. I suspect that they are not, because if they were Phillips would be getting more traction and Newsom would have probably jumped in, but there's still time for me to be proven wrong. Whether these polls are wrong intentionally, because of bad methodology, or because voters are telling pollsters things they don't sincerely believe is another question too which I don't know the answer.

Can you imagine a scenario where a company would prefer that a well-liked long-time employee would retire, but don't feel they have grounds to fire them?  A lot of Dems feel the same way about Biden.

Arguing with Harry is pointless dude, don’t even bother

I'm trying to remember what you and I feuded over and nothing's coming to mind, but I hope we can move past it and all stand united going into the 2024 election, given its potentially apocalyptic consequences 🤝

[All Along The Watchtower]

Isn’t this the same logic as "Trump will win in a landslide because of his rallies and crowds"?

No, it's the same argument as "If Trump beats Biden in a landslide next November, a hypothetical poll saying that 75% of voters didn't want Trump to win was probably wrong.

Also, Biden's problems go way beyond Democratic enthusiasm — he still wins 85%+ of Democrats even in most polls which show him trailing badly in swing states such as PA and MI.

That may be true, but it's not really relevant to the discussion at hand, which is only whether the polls suggesting that 75% or more of Democrats want someone other than Biden to be the nominee are correct or not. I suspect that they are not, because if they were Phillips would be getting more traction and Newsom would have probably jumped in, but there's still time for me to be proven wrong. Whether these polls are wrong intentionally, because of bad methodology, or because voters are telling pollsters things they don't sincerely believe is another question too which I don't know the answer.

Can you imagine a scenario where a company would prefer that a well-liked long-time employee would retire, but don't feel they have grounds to fire them?  A lot of Dems feel the same way about Biden.

This is politics, not a company.

[All Along The Watchtower]

And again, it continues to amaze me how many people demonstrate zero understanding of how American presidential politics actually works. If your point is just to complain about Biden’s unpopularity and/or age, then fine, do that, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that you’re providing substantive analysis.

[Horus]

There are at least 38 very, very delusional Democrats on this forum. I don't see how you can look at numbers like this and not want Biden out ASAP.

https://twitter.com/IAPolls2022/status/1735389206669652234?t=7Z0wKOdZvNSKpR3dEgr...

He is even in the negatives with Black voters. It's time for Joe to retire. Hopefully his loved ones knock some sense into him over Christmas break.