SB 118-18: Replacing Subregional Seats with Class II Regional Seats - Failed

[RFayette]

Nay

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

Nay

[P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong]

Nay

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Tabling FAILS 4-10-1-3

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

Senate Resolution
To replace subregional seats with a second class of regional seats

The Second-Place Finisher in the DDNN Entrance PollTo replace regional seats with a district elected seats

Be It Resolved in the Atlasian Senate Assembled, that upon ratification by 2/3rds of the Regions, the Fifth Constitution of Atlasia shall be amended as follows:

1. The several states of this Republic shall be apportioned among three contiguous, autonomous Regions. Each region shall be further subdivided into two subregions.
2. The northern Region shall consist of the states of Connecticut, Illinois, Indiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, Vermont, and Atlasian Virgin Islands.
i. The Northeastern Subregion shall consist of the states of Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Atlasian Virgin Islands.
ii. The Great Lakes Subregion shall consist of the states of Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.
3. The southern Region shall consist of the states of Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, West Virginia, and the District of Columbia.
i. The Upper Southern Subregion shall consist of the states of Arkansas, Delaware, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, and the District of Columbia.
ii. The Deep Southern Subregion shall consist of the states of Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, and Texas
4. The western Region shall consist of the states of Alaska, Arizona, Atlasian Samoa, California, Colorado, Guam, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Montana, Minnesota, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Northern Mariana Islands, Nebraska, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Washington, and Wyoming.
i. The Mountain West Subregion shall consist of the states of Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Iowa, Montana, Minnesota, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Nebraska, South Dakota, Utah, and Wyoming.
ii. The Pacific Subregion shall consist of the states of Alaska, Atlasian Samoa, California, Guam, Hawaii, Northern Mariana Islands, Oregon, and Washington.

(...)

3. The Senate shall consist of eighteen Senators; nine elected at large, one elected per district, and one elected for each region and each subregion.

4. No person shall be a Senator who has not attained two hundred or more posts, nor whose account is fewer than fourteen hundred and forty hours old, nor shall any person be a regional district or subregional senator who is not a citizen of the region district or subregion they are chosen to represent.

(...)

2. The manner of election for regional Senators shall be as follows:
i. Each region shall elect a Senator for a term of four months by popular election of the region’s residents administered by the regional government in a manner prescribed by the legislature thereof. Regional Senate elections shall be held in the months of February, June, and October.
ii. Regional Senate vacancies occurring more than thirty days prior to the end of the term shall be filled by special election of the region’s residents administered by the regional government within twenty days of the vacancy.
iii. Regional Senate vacancies occurring within thirty days of the end of the term, as well as the interim between a vacancy and a prescribed special election, may be filled in accordance with the laws of the region in question; should no such law exist then the region’s executive shall have the power to make such an appointment.

The manner of election for district Senators shall be as follows:
i. There shall be three districts. Each district electorate shall elect a Senator for a term of four months by popular election of the district's electorate. District Senate elections shall be held in the months of February, June, and October.

ii. Apportionment and drawing of the three districts shall be conducted by the passage of an Act of the Senate once per year, no earlier than the first day of January and no later than the last day of January, using voter registration information as of the end of the month of December the prior year. All of the several states shall be subject to apportionment into districts.

iii. Apportionment of the three districts shall ensure that no district divides states and all districts shall contain as equal of a population of registered voters as mathematically possible.

iv. Districts shall be geographically contiguous wherever states border each other by land.
(...)

The apportionment process will go into effect January 1, 2024 with the first district Senate elections coinciding with the February 2024 presidential election. Regional Senate seats shall continue to represent the Regions until the start of the 120th Senate.

This Constitutional Amendment eliminates subregional seats in favor of a second class of regional seats. regional seats in favor of a new class of district-elected seats and sets up a mechanism for  annual apportionment and redistricting.

Sponsor: Dwarven Dragon
Occupying: Slot 19

I propose this idea which actually adds something really cool that many of us will actually enjoy. District elected senators! It features a redistricting process that many of you will find stimulating to engage in.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I'm open to this. What do other senators think?

[reagente]

I'm open to this. What do other senators think?

Strange that the Senator who once decried regional districts as undemocratic now wants to bring the system to Federal government (and even stranger that a member of the "Federalist" Party wants to put the power to draw regional districts in the hands of the federal government rather than the respective regions).

I object.

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

I'm open to this. What do other senators think?

Strange that the Senator who once decried regional districts as undemocratic now wants to bring the system to Federal government (and even stranger that a member of the "Federalist" Party wants to put the power to draw regional districts in the hands of the federal government rather than the respective regions).

I object.

Strange is the example I want to set. 

I'm sure that you as big boy Upper South Subregional Senator would enjoy making your own proposal for redistricting.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Senate Resolution
To replace subregional seats with a second class of regional seats

The Second-Place Finisher in the DDNN Entrance PollTo replace regional seats with a district elected seats

Be It Resolved in the Atlasian Senate Assembled, that upon ratification by 2/3rds of the Regions, the Fifth Constitution of Atlasia shall be amended as follows:

1. The several states of this Republic shall be apportioned among three contiguous, autonomous Regions. Each region shall be further subdivided into two subregions.
2. The northern Region shall consist of the states of Connecticut, Illinois, Indiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, Vermont, and Atlasian Virgin Islands.
i. The Northeastern Subregion shall consist of the states of Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Atlasian Virgin Islands.
ii. The Great Lakes Subregion shall consist of the states of Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.
3. The southern Region shall consist of the states of Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, West Virginia, and the District of Columbia.
i. The Upper Southern Subregion shall consist of the states of Arkansas, Delaware, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, and the District of Columbia.
ii. The Deep Southern Subregion shall consist of the states of Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, and Texas
4. The western Region shall consist of the states of Alaska, Arizona, Atlasian Samoa, California, Colorado, Guam, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Montana, Minnesota, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Northern Mariana Islands, Nebraska, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Washington, and Wyoming.
i. The Mountain West Subregion shall consist of the states of Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Iowa, Montana, Minnesota, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Nebraska, South Dakota, Utah, and Wyoming.
ii. The Pacific Subregion shall consist of the states of Alaska, Atlasian Samoa, California, Guam, Hawaii, Northern Mariana Islands, Oregon, and Washington.

(...)

3. The Senate shall consist of eighteen Senators; nine elected at large, one elected per district, and one elected for each region and each subregion.

4. No person shall be a Senator who has not attained two hundred or more posts, nor whose account is fewer than fourteen hundred and forty hours old, nor shall any person be a regional district or subregional senator who is not a citizen of the region district or subregion they are chosen to represent.

(...)

2. The manner of election for regional Senators shall be as follows:
i. Each region shall elect a Senator for a term of four months by popular election of the region’s residents administered by the regional government in a manner prescribed by the legislature thereof. Regional Senate elections shall be held in the months of February, June, and October.
ii. Regional Senate vacancies occurring more than thirty days prior to the end of the term shall be filled by special election of the region’s residents administered by the regional government within twenty days of the vacancy.
iii. Regional Senate vacancies occurring within thirty days of the end of the term, as well as the interim between a vacancy and a prescribed special election, may be filled in accordance with the laws of the region in question; should no such law exist then the region’s executive shall have the power to make such an appointment.

The manner of election for district Senators shall be as follows:
i. There shall be three districts. Each district electorate shall elect a Senator for a term of four months by popular election of the district's electorate. District Senate elections shall be held in the months of February, June, and October.

ii. Apportionment and drawing of the three districts shall be conducted by the passage of an Act of the Senate once per year, no earlier than the first day of January and no later than the last day of January, using voter registration information as of the end of the month of December the prior year. All of the several states shall be subject to apportionment into districts.

iii. Apportionment of the three districts shall ensure that no district divides states and all districts shall contain as equal of a population of registered voters as mathematically possible.

iv. Districts shall be geographically contiguous wherever states border each other by land.
(...)

The apportionment process will go into effect January 1, 2024 with the first district Senate elections coinciding with the February 2024 presidential election. Regional Senate seats shall continue to represent the Regions until the start of the 120th Senate.

This Constitutional Amendment eliminates subregional seats in favor of a second class of regional seats. regional seats in favor of a new class of district-elected seats and sets up a mechanism for  annual apportionment and redistricting.

Sponsor: Dwarven Dragon
Occupying: Slot 19

I propose this idea which actually adds something really cool that many of us will actually enjoy. District elected senators! It features a redistricting process that many of you will find stimulating to engage in.

Question is on the amendment.

Aye

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

Aye

[Vice President Christian Man]

Nay

[Vice President Christian Man]

Switching to Aye

[DKrol]

Aye

[LAKISYLVANIA]

How are you planning on making sure that not all people are registered in 1 or 2 states to ensure a district would not be competitive (given they have to be contiguous).

This isn't going to bring the results you want.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Abstain

[reagente]

Nay

[ChiefFireWaterMike]

Nay

[RFayette]

Nay

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I think if you want competitive elections back, the only way to do it is basically "remove the state registration" from registering", and just randomly allocate a state to everyone (by lottery). It's the only way you will fix the gerrymandered regions.

The district system - while having the right intention - does not work, because i've already heard of ways and ideas of how to abuse such a system (in particular because the regions continue to exist and specifically the word: "contiguous matters" here, as well as "all districts shall contain as equal of a population of registered voters as mathematically possible."

It just does not work, or need more amending.

So i'm gonna change to Nay, sorry.

However i'm open for discussion and I want to have a longer time of debate before we push this to a final vote.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Also wanna add that i'm against original bill, i will also vote against that because regions are not different from subregions, in fact the most competitive election is a subregion right now, not in a region, specifically "Northeast". Lincoln itself is lean anti-Peace. NE is pure toss-up.

Also, there's enough activity here left, no need to change that. Next year is an election year, december might be an issue but i'm sure 2024 will have the activity to warrant 18 seats. Last election, we had 14 candidates on the ballot (!).

Reducing number of seats also reduces the chance that an independent or minor party can get a seat. I'm not a fan of it.

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

How are you planning on making sure that not all people are registered in 1 or 2 states to ensure a district would not be competitive (given they have to be contiguous).

This isn't going to bring the results you want.

It would involve serious ratf**ckery which some big brain people think they're capable of. We could deal with it anyway. Like they have their den of spite and hatred which this proposal still keeps intact anyway out of generosity on my part, but if the leader of a certain rogue criminal fascist cabal really hate this elections game so much, we have ways of dealing with it like perhaps scrambling all of the registrations and making the whole country competitive again. I'll admit that my proposed modification could use some work fixing potential loopholes, but it is a big leap in the right direction. This would actually solve major issues facing this game even though it is actually in better shape than we think it is as it stands now.

[Pyro]

Abstain

[fhtagn]

Nay

[Coastal Elitist]

Nay

[Dr. MB]

Nay