43rd British Columbia general election
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May 22, 2024, 04:07:44 PM
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  43rd British Columbia general election
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #150 on: May 15, 2024, 03:42:40 PM »

And what will they name this new party? Because if it doesn't have "Conservative" in the name, then you can expect it won't do as well.

Maybe the BC Liberal Party, to get away from both Conservative and United brands?
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DL
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« Reply #151 on: May 15, 2024, 04:14:47 PM »

I find it amusing how they still use this dated 1970s language about saving "free enterprise" - as if the NDP under Horgan or Eby ever posed the slightest threat to free enterprise. Its not as if the BC NDP has workers of the world unite as its mission statement and wants to nationalize all heavy industry.
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Benjamin Frank 2.0
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« Reply #152 on: May 15, 2024, 04:23:59 PM »

I find it amusing how they still use this dated 1970s language about saving "free enterprise" - as if the NDP under Horgan or Eby ever posed the slightest threat to free enterprise. Its not as if the BC NDP has workers of the world unite as its mission statement and wants to nationalize all heavy industry.

There are definitely companies in the resource sector that are anti NDP and many in the construction sector aren't exactly happy with the NDP either.
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DL
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« Reply #153 on: May 15, 2024, 11:00:14 PM »

There are lots of companies in the resource sector who are not crazy about some federal Liberal policies and yet the Liberals are never labelled anti-free enterprise - in fact they are very much the party of big business
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S019
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« Reply #154 on: May 15, 2024, 11:05:32 PM »

I find it amusing how they still use this dated 1970s language about saving "free enterprise" - as if the NDP under Horgan or Eby ever posed the slightest threat to free enterprise. Its not as if the BC NDP has workers of the world unite as its mission statement and wants to nationalize all heavy industry.

I understood "free-enterprise coalition" to just be the colloquial term for the anti NDP alliance of Liberals and Tories in BC. I'm pretty sure it's just useful shorthand carried over from the NDP vs Social Credit era when the NDP did in many ways pose a threat to business. The BC Liberals/BC United even presented themselves as a "free enterprise coalition," so it can't imagine that exactly harmed the idea of continuing to use that phrasing.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #155 on: May 16, 2024, 09:06:37 AM »

United Liberal-Conservative Free Enterprise Social Credit Coalition Party of British Columbia

Rolls off the tongue quite easily.
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DL
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« Reply #156 on: May 16, 2024, 09:21:38 AM »

I find it amusing how they still use this dated 1970s language about saving "free enterprise" - as if the NDP under Horgan or Eby ever posed the slightest threat to free enterprise. Its not as if the BC NDP has workers of the world unite as its mission statement and wants to nationalize all heavy industry.

I understood "free-enterprise coalition" to just be the colloquial term for the anti NDP alliance of Liberals and Tories in BC. I'm pretty sure it's just useful shorthand carried over from the NDP vs Social Credit era when the NDP did in many ways pose a threat to business. The BC Liberals/BC United even presented themselves as a "free enterprise coalition," so it can't imagine that exactly harmed the idea of continuing to use that phrasing.

I'm not saying that "free enterprise" terminology necessarily harms anyone - its just so dated and vestigial. At one time all the wealthy and educated people from the business elites voted en masse for which ever party was anti-NDP - and the NDP got massive support from people with lower incomes. Like much of the western world - the political coalitions have changed enormously. The BC NDP now wins some of the highest income ridings and tends to do well among high income highly educated people many of whom work in business in the private sector...the issues that separate the NDP from the parties on the right are no longer things like nationalizing entire industries - its now more cultural issues and environmental issues 
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Benjamin Frank 2.0
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« Reply #157 on: May 16, 2024, 01:41:13 PM »
« Edited: May 16, 2024, 02:43:11 PM by Benjamin Frank 2.0 »

There are lots of companies in the resource sector who are not crazy about some federal Liberal policies and yet the Liberals are never labelled anti-free enterprise - in fact they are very much the party of big business

Justin Trudeau has definitely been labelled an anti-free enterprise 'socialist' and they are the party of 'Eastern Establishment' big business but opposed by the Western Resource big business (I wonder who J.D Irving in New Brunswick supports.)
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The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ
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« Reply #158 on: May 17, 2024, 07:33:07 PM »
« Edited: May 17, 2024, 07:40:55 PM by The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ »

I'm not saying that "free enterprise" terminology necessarily harms anyone - its just so dated and vestigial.  

It is vestigial, but these things often are. I mean, the same could be said about the label "Progressive Conservative" which is still used by many provincial Tory parties. It dates back to a leadership convention in 1942, when the popular Liberal-Progressive Premier of Manitoba, John Bracken, agreed to lead the Tories on condition that they add "progressive" to the party name, because Bracken's personal brand was heavily tied to the agrarian progressive movement of the 1920s.

The "progressive" part of PC isn't really about ideology, and it's certainly not an accurate description of many politicians who continue to use that label. It's about a deal struck 82 years ago by the Tories to draft one specific man to be their leader. And the way we use the term "progressive" in 21st century politics is quite different from what it meant to early 20th century agrarians like John Bracken.

Hell, Social Credit was like that too. It's named after a weird 1930s monetary theory that they themselves abandoned very soon after they became relevant. The Social Credit dynasty that ruled BC during the Cold War era never even tried to implement social credit ideology or policy, it was entirely a vestige of a brand that had once been popular in rural Canada during the Great Depression.
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Sol
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« Reply #159 on: May 18, 2024, 03:44:12 PM »

So wait, am I right in assessing that basically the entirety of the collapse of BC United is because of the name change?

LOL
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The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ
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« Reply #160 on: May 19, 2024, 03:15:38 PM »

So wait, am I right in assessing that basically the entirety of the collapse of BC United is because of the name change?

LOL

Someone from BC might know better, but my understanding is that the rebrand just confused a lot of people at first, and that can have an impact in the polls. Let's say around this time last year, if I'm a typical federal Tory/provincial Liberal voter in BC, but I don't follow politics too closely, I might not even know about the BC Liberal rebrand. The polling prompts are NDP (dirty hippies), Green (dirty hippies), BC United (what?), and Conservative. Well if you're a federal Conservative voter and you don't know what BC United is, just by process of elimination, you would pick Conservative. Not to mention BC Conservatives had already made gains in 2020, and I think that confusion alone gave them enough of a polling boost, which subsequently led to more people taking the BC Conservatives more seriously. Again, just spitballing here.

I also wonder if it's just that calling yourself a Conservative is kind of an asset in the current climate. Like people aren't voting for John Rustad, polls show that his unknowns are still very high for a leader in his position, and David Eby still has a better net favourable. Halfway across the country, Doug Ford has become fairly unpopular, yet the PCs still poll in majority territory and actually gained support in a recent byelection in a key swing seat. In theory, neither Ford nor Rustad should be doing as well as they are. But both Ford's party and Rustad's party have "Conservative" in their name, and the CPC hasn't consistently polled this high literally since the party's founding. So it's possible that CPC's polling boost federally is having a "downballot" impact of just making people more favourable to parties that have "conservative" in their name.
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DL
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« Reply #161 on: May 19, 2024, 08:41:02 PM »

Thatís all true but itís not like this is the first time the Conservatives have been riding high in BC federally. The Tories did very well in BC during the time of the 2005, 2009 and 2013 BC elections and the BC Liberals were led at the time by people who were very rightwing but who had strong federal Liberal pedigrees like Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark. Ironically, Kevin Falcon is the first federal Conservative to become leader of the B.C. Liberals and its under his leadership that that party is collapsing at the expense of the BC Conservatives
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« Reply #162 on: May 20, 2024, 02:42:45 PM »

Thatís all true but itís not like this is the first time the Conservatives have been riding high in BC federally. The Tories did very well in BC during the time of the 2005, 2009 and 2013 BC elections and the BC Liberals were led at the time by people who were very rightwing but who had strong federal Liberal pedigrees like Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark. Ironically, Kevin Falcon is the first federal Conservative to become leader of the B.C. Liberals and its under his leadership that that party is collapsing at the expense of the BC Conservatives

*Federal Liberals calling themselves Liberals*

Right-wing British Columbians: "Long live Campbellism-Clarkism-Jonathan Wilkinson thought!"

*Federal Conservative not even pretending to be a Liberal*

Right-wing British Columbians: "Get lost Kevin Falcon you damn LIBERAL"
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The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ
laddicus finch
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« Reply #163 on: May 20, 2024, 02:44:08 PM »

Thatís all true but itís not like this is the first time the Conservatives have been riding high in BC federally. The Tories did very well in BC during the time of the 2005, 2009 and 2013 BC elections and the BC Liberals were led at the time by people who were very rightwing but who had strong federal Liberal pedigrees like Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark. Ironically, Kevin Falcon is the first federal Conservative to become leader of the B.C. Liberals and its under his leadership that that party is collapsing at the expense of the BC Conservatives

But yes this isn't the first time the BC Cons have polled high, but surely they haven't polled this high in recent years right? There used to be the odd pre-writ poll that had them in the teens, but polling in the 30s is new and a much bigger threat to BCU.
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S019
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« Reply #164 on: May 21, 2024, 10:29:49 AM »

Thatís all true but itís not like this is the first time the Conservatives have been riding high in BC federally. The Tories did very well in BC during the time of the 2005, 2009 and 2013 BC elections and the BC Liberals were led at the time by people who were very rightwing but who had strong federal Liberal pedigrees like Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark. Ironically, Kevin Falcon is the first federal Conservative to become leader of the B.C. Liberals and its under his leadership that that party is collapsing at the expense of the BC Conservatives

This post strikes me as a bit bizarre. Gordon Campbell was floated to run for Parliament as a CPC candidate in 2015, and Christy Clark both endorsed in the 2022 Tory leadership election and was discussed as a candidate for CPC leadership in 2015. Falconís ties to the Tories are well known, but I would say Wilkinson is the only leader who was really a federal Liberal.
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CascadianIndy
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« Reply #165 on: May 21, 2024, 12:23:41 PM »

Thatís all true but itís not like this is the first time the Conservatives have been riding high in BC federally. The Tories did very well in BC during the time of the 2005, 2009 and 2013 BC elections and the BC Liberals were led at the time by people who were very rightwing but who had strong federal Liberal pedigrees like Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark. Ironically, Kevin Falcon is the first federal Conservative to become leader of the B.C. Liberals and its under his leadership that that party is collapsing at the expense of the BC Conservatives

But yes this isn't the first time the BC Cons have polled high, but surely they haven't polled this high in recent years right? There used to be the odd pre-writ poll that had them in the teens, but polling in the 30s is new and a much bigger threat to BCU.

At the peak of the Cummins insurgency in 2011/12, the best they did was tie with Christy Clark. This is a whole different ball game Ė even online polls have BCU barely clinging to double digits now. CPBC being closer to the NDP than BCU/Liberals is unprecedented.
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The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ
laddicus finch
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« Reply #166 on: May 21, 2024, 02:10:33 PM »

Thatís all true but itís not like this is the first time the Conservatives have been riding high in BC federally. The Tories did very well in BC during the time of the 2005, 2009 and 2013 BC elections and the BC Liberals were led at the time by people who were very rightwing but who had strong federal Liberal pedigrees like Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark. Ironically, Kevin Falcon is the first federal Conservative to become leader of the B.C. Liberals and its under his leadership that that party is collapsing at the expense of the BC Conservatives

This post strikes me as a bit bizarre. Gordon Campbell was floated to run for Parliament as a CPC candidate in 2015, and Christy Clark both endorsed in the 2022 Tory leadership election and was discussed as a candidate for CPC leadership in 2015. Falconís ties to the Tories are well known, but I would say Wilkinson is the only leader who was really a federal Liberal.

Christy Clark was a member of the LPC for most of her adult life though, and while she did endorse a Conservative candidate in 2022, it's worth noting that she endorsed Jean Charest, the most Liberal-adjacent candidate in that election. I would be very, very, very surprised if Christy Clark ends up having anything to do with the CPC campaign in 2025.

The case of the BC Liberals seems pretty clear cut. It's not unusual for Liberals to veer right in situations where no challenger exists on the right, but a strong challenger exists on the left. In the 1960s, the Saskatchewan Liberals were effectively the provincial Tories, because the PCs were a non-factor and anti-NDP voters needed somewhere to park their votes. Similar situation for the Quebec Liberals after the fall of Union Nationale and before the rise of CAQ. The leadership class remained largely affiliated with the LPC, but they also understood that there was a much greater demand for a centre-right party than a centrist party.
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The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ
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« Reply #167 on: May 21, 2024, 02:17:14 PM »

Thatís all true but itís not like this is the first time the Conservatives have been riding high in BC federally. The Tories did very well in BC during the time of the 2005, 2009 and 2013 BC elections and the BC Liberals were led at the time by people who were very rightwing but who had strong federal Liberal pedigrees like Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark. Ironically, Kevin Falcon is the first federal Conservative to become leader of the B.C. Liberals and its under his leadership that that party is collapsing at the expense of the BC Conservatives

But yes this isn't the first time the BC Cons have polled high, but surely they haven't polled this high in recent years right? There used to be the odd pre-writ poll that had them in the teens, but polling in the 30s is new and a much bigger threat to BCU.

At the peak of the Cummins insurgency in 2011/12, the best they did was tie with Christy Clark. This is a whole different ball game Ė even online polls have BCU barely clinging to double digits now. CPBC being closer to the NDP than BCU/Liberals is unprecedented.

Not to mention, CPBC is actually going to run a full slate this time around, or at least close to a full slate. In 2020, they only ran 19 candidates out of a possible 87. This means that although they only got 2% provincially, they averaged around 9% in the ridings where they actually ran, which is closer to how CPBC used to poll in the off-season. Granted, this number is probably skewed by the fact that most of the ridings they contested were very conservative ridings, but still, it's not like they were completely irrelevant, they were decently relevant in the ridings that they contested, and denied the Liberals a few seats.
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« Reply #168 on: May 21, 2024, 02:24:30 PM »

I'm still very bearish on the BC Conservatives though, tbh. Despite David Eby getting a lot of bad press for the first time in his premiership (at least in national media, I'm not sure about local media), his favourability ratings remain positive, and John Rustad is nothing impressive. This won't matter much to the base, but I have a hard time seeing how Conservatives flip the suburbs while the left-wing premier remains reasonably popular.
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DL
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« Reply #169 on: May 21, 2024, 05:00:04 PM »

This poll has the BC NDP leading by 10 points 42% to 32%

https://researchco.ca/2024/05/21/bcpoli-may2024/

and the NDP is way ahead among those 55+ while the BC Conservatives seem to be doing best among low information 18-34 year olds most of whom probably won't vote
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