🇦🇺 Australian Indigenous Voice to Parliament Referendum (October 14th)

[Meclazine for Israel]

Tasmanian Aboriginal person, Rebecca Digney, gives her opinion on behalf of her 'mob' in Tasmania about the Voice referendum.


Aboriginal Land Council of Tasmania manager Rebecca Digney says changing the Constitution should be for something "much more worthy" like a treaty.(ABC News: Erin Cooper Photo:Examiner Launceston)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-01/why-eyes-are-on-tasmania-as-a-swing-state-in-voice-referendum/102797724

Rebecca said "If the government is going to recognise our rights, one of the fundamental rights they need to recognise is our right to be self-determining."

[Peeperkorn]

Tasmanian Aboriginal person, Rebecca Digney, gives her opinion on behalf of her 'mob' in Tasmania about the Voice referendum.


Aboriginal Land Council of Tasmania manager Rebecca Digney says changing the Constitution should be for something "much more worthy" like a treaty.(ABC News: Erin Cooper Photo:Examiner Launceston)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-01/why-eyes-are-on-tasmania-as-a-swing-state-in-voice-referendum/102797724

Rebecca said "If the government is going to recognise our rights, one of the fundamental rights they need to recognise is our right to be self-determining."

Australia's Elizabeth Warren.

[GoTfan]

The Voice has won the backing from one of the worst people in Australian politics, Malcolm Turnbull: Why my government didn’t back the Voice, but I’m now voting yes.  This sniveling weasel makes it sound like it wasn't him who immediately dismissed the Voice and maligned it (very effectively, I might add) as a "Third Chamber", ending any discussion of implementing the Uluru Statement under his leadership.  No, under his retelling, he was an ineffective figurehead held hostage to a party base that he clearly despises.  A man with a perpetual need to be liked (and/or "on the right side of history"), he has never demonstrated throughout his long public life that he actually holds any principles whatsoever.

It's not a third chamber if parliament.  Anyone insisting it is is lacking in the brain department

[GoTfan]

I still support Albanese and he's way better than Dutton, but this whole voice thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. Australia should have a colorblind government.

You mean courblind as long as the uppity blacks stay out of it. Gotcha

[Shaula🏳️‍⚧️]

I still support Albanese and he's way better than Dutton, but this whole voice thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. Australia should have a colorblind government.

You mean courblind as long as the uppity blacks stay out of it. Gotcha

No wtf lol. Everyone should have equal rights, white or black. But race should not be even mentioned in our constitution.

My family literally immigrated to escape persecution in apartheid South Africa, don't lecture me about racism.

[warandwar]

I still support Albanese and he's way better than Dutton, but this whole voice thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. Australia should have a colorblind government.

You mean courblind as long as the uppity blacks stay out of it. Gotcha

No wtf lol. Everyone should have equal rights, white or black. But race should not be even mentioned in our constitution.

My family literally immigrated to escape persecution in apartheid South Africa, don't lecture me about racism.

Indigenity is different than race and doesnt imply equal treatment.

[Meclazine for Israel]

It's becoming difficult to find people who like the concept of the Voice to Parliament.

Warren Mundine

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CwjnfP-PaAZ/

All Australian's are really keen for Aboriginal education, health and economic conditions to improve, but it appears that the majority of people are not buying Albo's direction on this occasion.

Will wait and see the result.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

It's becoming difficult to find people who like the concept of the Voice to Parliament.

So difficult! Other than the entire Labor party, most crossbenchers, 80-90% of Aboriginals, and ~45% of the general public who even likes the Voice?

[Meclazine for Israel]

It's becoming difficult to find people who like the concept of the Voice to Parliament.

So difficult! Other than the entire Labor party, most crossbenchers, 80-90% of Aboriginals, and ~45% of the general public who even likes the Voice?

I hope you are right. We will wait on the result and see.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Annabel Crabb shares her thoughts on the referendum.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-03/voice-referendum-vote-on-102-words-stay-out-of-weeds/102800166


There are two cases being made for a Yes vote, and two for the No vote. (AAP: James Ross)

She talks about the 1967 Referendum. Annabel writes:

"Since Federation, section 51 of the Constitution had empowered the federal government to make special laws that affected only members of a certain race. It's known as "the race power". It was drafted specifically to allow the government to make discriminatory laws. And it's still there.

But Indigenous Australians were expressly excluded from that section. Until the 1967 referendum removed the words in bold, section 51 empowered the government to make laws regarding "the people of any race, other than the aboriginal race in any State, for whom it is deemed necessary to make special laws".

Meanwhile, Peter Dutton said he will hold a 2nd referendum if the vote fails.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-03/peter-dutton-pledges-second-referendum-if-voice-fails/102808598


Peter Dutton insists the Coalition has long been committed to Indigenous recognition in the constitution despite failing to hold a referendum when in government. (ABC News: Matt Roberts)

[AtorBoltox]

What are our fellow Aussies thoughts on the vibe of the opening few days? I feel yes has gotten off to a good start, but I fully admit I live in a bubble where nearly everyone I know is a yes supporter.

[Ebowed]

Latest Newspoll says Yes 38 (-3), No 53 (+5).

[Meclazine for Israel]

John Farnham

You're The Voice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnWr-9r1LJE

Johnny has given permission for the YES campaign to use his song to advance their cause.

An amazing theme song, one best used in the movie 'Hot Rod'. Johnny had just finished singing with Little River Band, and then had to go out on his own, and somehow got his hands on this classic.

[Meclazine for Israel]

John Farnham

You're The Voice Advertisement

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CwwBnDHv0Xq/

Interestingy, the lyrics are:

"You're the Voice,
Try And Understand It"

The biggest complaint about the Voice Referendum is most people do not understand it.

Johnny Howard got a guernsey with gun control and Nicky Winmar lifted his. Cathy Freeman also got a showing.

Undeniably, a great theme song.

Ben Fordham listeners clearly do not agree and have said that John Farnham would normalpy not get involved in a controversial issue, least of all a political one.

You're The Voice Feedback

https://omny.fm/shows/ben-fordham-full-show/massive-backlash-john-farnham-ad-divides-australia%F0%9F%8E%A7

[Senator Incitatus]

I still support Albanese and he's way better than Dutton, but this whole voice thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. Australia should have a colorblind government.

You mean courblind as long as the uppity blacks stay out of it. Gotcha

No wtf lol. Everyone should have equal rights, white or black. But race should not be even mentioned in our constitution.

My family literally immigrated to escape persecution in apartheid South Africa, don't lecture me about racism.

Indigenity is different than race and doesnt imply equal treatment.

Government by preference of indigeneity is better known by its proper name: nationalism. And nationalism without nationhood is deeply perverse. Just give them the whole country back and get out if you're so broken up over your conquest.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I still support Albanese and he's way better than Dutton, but this whole voice thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. Australia should have a colorblind government.

You mean courblind as long as the uppity blacks stay out of it. Gotcha

No wtf lol. Everyone should have equal rights, white or black. But race should not be even mentioned in our constitution.

My family literally immigrated to escape persecution in apartheid South Africa, don't lecture me about racism.

Indigenity is different than race and doesnt imply equal treatment.

Government by preference of indigeneity is better known by its proper name: nationalism. And nationalism without nationhood is deeply perverse. Just give them the whole country back and get out if you're so broken up over your conquest.

The entire "indigenous" vs "non-indigenous" cleavage, used in this way, is kind of ludicrous anyway. Are the descendants of people who came to Australia in the early 1800s any less indigenous to the land? They've lived in Australia for what, five generations at least? Why don't they count as indigenous? How are they any less Australian?

#Landback, in most of its forms, is highly discriminatory towards the immigrant (like my Italian and Arab ancestors), the people who came for a better life and who worked hard most their lives, diligently, so that their children could live better than they did. And if the Voice actually was somehow intended as a good vehicle for that, then I'd be obliged to support No, despite my unhappiness with that conclusion. As it is, a Yes victory merely makes current consultative bodies constitutionally protected. The fact Yes is thus far losing is an indictment of how Yes is handling this by just lodging accusations of racism at opponents. That's not how you convince minds.

[Lord Halifax]

I still support Albanese and he's way better than Dutton, but this whole voice thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. Australia should have a colorblind government.

You mean courblind as long as the uppity blacks stay out of it. Gotcha

No wtf lol. Everyone should have equal rights, white or black. But race should not be even mentioned in our constitution.

My family literally immigrated to escape persecution in apartheid South Africa, don't lecture me about racism.

Indigenity is different than race and doesnt imply equal treatment.

Government by preference of indigeneity is better known by its proper name: nationalism. And nationalism without nationhood is deeply perverse. Just give them the whole country back and get out if you're so broken up over your conquest.

that's nonsense, granting special rights and status to the indigenous population over the descendants of settlers and immigrants may at a stretch be called a variant of nativism, but it's not nationalism.

[Lord Halifax]

I still support Albanese and he's way better than Dutton, but this whole voice thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. Australia should have a colorblind government.

You mean courblind as long as the uppity blacks stay out of it. Gotcha

No wtf lol. Everyone should have equal rights, white or black.

if you live in settler colonialist countries where the indigenous population has been swamped by outsiders and completely marginalized (US, Brazil, Canada, Australia etc.) that leaves them powerless and is hardly fair. Settler colonialist countries are the result of a historical injustice and without some special rights and privileges to the descendants of the original population their communities will remain marginalized and destitute. Everyone should have equal rights sounds nice, but if one group starts out being at a huge and deeply entrenched disadvantage it only cements injustice.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I still support Albanese and he's way better than Dutton, but this whole voice thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. Australia should have a colorblind government.

You mean courblind as long as the uppity blacks stay out of it. Gotcha

No wtf lol. Everyone should have equal rights, white or black.

if you live in settler colonialist countries where the indigenous population has been swamped by outsiders and completely marginalized (US, Brazil, Canada, Australia etc.) that leaves them powerless and is hardly fair. Settler colonialist countries are the result of a historical injustice and without some special rights and privileges to the descendants of the original population their communities will remain marginalized and destitute. Everyone should have equal rights sounds nice, but if one group starts out being at a huge and deeply entrenched disadvantage it only cements injustice.

It depends based on context what rights and privileges are okay and not okay (I happen to think closing Uluru/Ayers Rock is unjustified, but Australians at least passively seem to accept it being a no-go place). But one thing is rather clear...the government of all the citizens has the right to deny natives of non-settler descent some of their wishes, depending on what those wishes may or may not be. And to the extent ideals of democracy matter, let's be frank here...30% of Australia is foreign-born (as in they were not born in Australia), and only 3% of Australia is Aboriginal. And the vast majority of the country is in fact descended from people who had every right to come there. Liberal norms and free movement matter.

Australia has for over a century and a half provided a home for people from all over the world. Diminutizing the foreign-born's (and by extension, their descendants) standing in relative terms in favor of the Aboriginals needs to tread carefully lest it tramples on the rights of the majority.

EDIT: I have been asked...answer is, based on what rudimentary assumptions I may make in this specific case of Uluru, that the debunking of terra nullius back in that court case led directly to the land on which the site was on passing to native ownership more recently, said people then closing it as a holy site. It is unfortunate that the government was not able to preserve access to it someway or another in a way more akin to a publicly owned  site...regardless of one's view on what has happened, provided the way things developed is different from what I have described/presumed here, I welcome clarification or correction to this through PM (not in thread, preferably), but I do get the impression there is a complicated story surrounding this and doubtless there was a huge amount of legal work involved. Short on time atm so I didn't have the time to fully research this specific case. And really, this is not a biggie, there are bigger fish to fry and bigger dragons to fight. That is all.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

(I happen to think closing Uluru/Ayers Rock is unjustified, but Australians at least passively seem to accept it being a no-go place).

I truly want to avoid this stupid argument however I can’t help but ask what on earth do you find unjustified about native title landowners enforcing their own rules on private property?

[Pericles]

It's pretty obvious that in most settler colonial countries, the indigenous population is still significantly worse off than the majority and this is indisputably linked with the legacy of colonialism. In Australia, this is obviously true-Australian democracy does not work as well for Aboriginal Australians as it does for the rest of the population. They are around 30% of Australia's prison population for example, despite being around 3% of the general population, and around 10 years less in life expectancy (a gap which is shockingly widening, so Australia is not naturally trending towards progress and racial equality). These much worse outcomes are reflected pretty much across the board as is.

The Voice isn't going to eliminate these gaps, but the chance that it will make a difference is worth taking imo.

It is not about feeling guilty about the past. We do need to understand history though and then fix the problems that exist right now so that racism is eliminated (as much as possible) as a fact of life in society, rather than just making the laws 'anti-racist' and leaving it that.

[warandwar]

I still support Albanese and he's way better than Dutton, but this whole voice thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. Australia should have a colorblind government.

You mean courblind as long as the uppity blacks stay out of it. Gotcha

No wtf lol. Everyone should have equal rights, white or black. But race should not be even mentioned in our constitution.

My family literally immigrated to escape persecution in apartheid South Africa, don't lecture me about racism.

Indigenity is different than race and doesnt imply equal treatment.

Government by preference of indigeneity is better known by its proper name: nationalism. And nationalism without nationhood is deeply perverse. Just give them the whole country back and get out if you're so broken up over your conquest.

Nationalism is different from indigenity. For one there is way more than one "nation" of australian aboriginals. I also can't name a single nationalist regime that respects the rights of a minority indigenous population, can you? I'm not sure what you mean by nationhood - that's not dependent on any referendum, but through social consciousness. Aboriginal protest is ultimately the cause of this referendum, not the white guilt you seem to be talking about.

[warandwar]

Australia has for over a century and a half provided a home for people from all over the world.

Weird thing to say about a country with a famously draconian, race based immigration system.

[Meclazine for Israel]

They are around 30% of Australia's prison population for example, despite being around 3% of the general population, and around 10 years less in life expectancy.

In Western Australia, Aboriginal persons made up 3,115 out of 6,247 people in jail in 2022.

The 'mob' occupy 49.8% of the entire jail system from a state population averaging only 3.2% Aboriginal.

In the community of Roebourne, for example, 30% of the male population are registered child sex offenders.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/roebourne-western-australia-paedophile-epidemic-child-sex-abuse-simon-mcgurk-a7951946.html

"The confirmed victims amount to about 90 per cent of the town's school-age population."

[GoTfan]

And thus, it is revealed:

https://twitter.com/slsandpet/status/1698810235291640051

Poor baby's still upset Labor didn't give him a Senate seat.