Five Decades of Fear & Loathing
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 29, 2024, 01:02:04 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  Election What-ifs? (Moderator: Dereich)
  Five Decades of Fear & Loathing
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17
Author Topic: Five Decades of Fear & Loathing  (Read 28121 times)
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,095
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #325 on: January 18, 2024, 11:52:50 PM »

I have now caught up with all of what I've written so far, totaling 862 pages! Updates will be a bit slower from here on out, but expect the debates and general election's conclusion by the end of the weekend. Thanks for all of the support!

Any and all suggestions are welcome, though I do have an outline of the 1980s more or less planned out.
Logged
anbarret
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #326 on: January 19, 2024, 10:30:01 AM »

If anyone is interested, there is a new thread on the alternate history.com website regarding further discussion on the original Fear, Loathing, and Gumbo/Rumsfeldia timeline:

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/fear-loathing-and-gumbo-rumsfeldia-cont.549142/page-3
Logged
anbarret
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #327 on: January 19, 2024, 10:31:25 AM »

You have stated that the "five decades of fear & loathing" will be more of a controlled sense of chaos than the original TL. I wonder if TTL 2022 will look anything like the OTL 1973 movie Soylent Green!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jGOKYHxaQ&t=111s
Logged
anbarret
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #328 on: January 19, 2024, 10:36:00 AM »

If the USSR successfully has OTL Deng style reforms and remains a major player, I would be curious as to how the Space Race evolves in this TL.
Logged
Huey Long is a Republican
New Tennessean Politician
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,530
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #329 on: January 19, 2024, 01:27:38 PM »

With slower updates, can we expect updates for Fire & Fury coming soon or will you be solely focus on this one for the time being?
Logged
2016
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,728


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #330 on: January 19, 2024, 03:16:33 PM »

Praying that President Reagan can somehow turn this around! Would be sad to see him go after just one Term.
Logged
anbarret
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #331 on: January 19, 2024, 03:34:10 PM »

If Hugh Carey has an OTL 1992 style electoral landslide over the Gipper himself, I'd love to see how the Hughes Network reacts to a non-Rumsfeldian 1980s.
Logged
Another Middling Leftist
SeeStars
Rookie
**
Posts: 31
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.16, S: -4.98

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #332 on: January 19, 2024, 05:16:06 PM »

You have stated that the "five decades of fear & loathing" will be more of a controlled sense of chaos than the original TL. I wonder if TTL 2022 will look anything like the OTL 1973 movie Soylent Green!

So America in a extremely worse state?
Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,095
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #333 on: January 19, 2024, 07:20:59 PM »

Praying that President Reagan can somehow turn this around! Would be sad to see him go after just one Term.
Don’t blame him. Blame Spiro Tongue

You have stated that the "five decades of fear & loathing" will be more of a controlled sense of chaos than the original TL. I wonder if TTL 2022 will look anything like the OTL 1973 movie Soylent Green!

So America in a extremely worse state?
No. America is closer to OTL, just more polarized, poorer, and subject to frequent international crises. Our democracy and the union itself survives, but I’d rather live in our America than the America I imagine at the end of the story.
Logged
Another Middling Leftist
SeeStars
Rookie
**
Posts: 31
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.16, S: -4.98

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #334 on: January 19, 2024, 07:23:38 PM »

You have stated that the "five decades of fear & loathing" will be more of a controlled sense of chaos than the original TL. I wonder if TTL 2022 will look anything like the OTL 1973 movie Soylent Green!

So America in a extremely worse state?
No. America is closer to OTL, just more polarized, poorer, and subject to frequent international crises. Our democracy and the union itself survives, but I’d rather live in our America than the America I imagine at the end of the story.

Like how much more polarized? America has been thoroughly polarized throughout the years.
Logged
anbarret
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #335 on: January 19, 2024, 07:44:41 PM »

Praying that President Reagan can somehow turn this around! Would be sad to see him go after just one Term.
Don’t blame him. Blame Spiro Tongue

You have stated that the "five decades of fear & loathing" will be more of a controlled sense of chaos than the original TL. I wonder if TTL 2022 will look anything like the OTL 1973 movie Soylent Green!

So America in a extremely worse state?
No. America is closer to OTL, just more polarized, poorer, and subject to frequent international crises. Our democracy and the union itself survives, but I’d rather live in our America than the America I imagine at the end of the story.

"Polarization" is a social construct having only obtaining its modern meaning after WWII.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/polarization#etymonline_v_36256

I suppose there won't be a dramatic break-up of the two-party system then.

Will the Democrats still generally have the Deep South and the Republicans have the Far West (including California) and New England (think the OTL 1976 Election between Ford and Carter)?

I wonder if the decades ahead will look anything like "Spiraling Out Of Control"?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QofF6iVNLJs&list=LL&index=98&t=106s
Logged
anbarret
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #336 on: January 19, 2024, 07:47:37 PM »

You have stated that the "five decades of fear & loathing" will be more of a controlled sense of chaos than the original TL. I wonder if TTL 2022 will look anything like the OTL 1973 movie Soylent Green!

So America in a extremely worse state?
No. America is closer to OTL, just more polarized, poorer, and subject to frequent international crises. Our democracy and the union itself survives, but I’d rather live in our America than the America I imagine at the end of the story.

Like how much more polarized? America has been thoroughly polarized throughout the years.

The biggest divide in the OTL US (and to a lesser extent other countries) is between "knowledge-economy hubs" and those outside them:

https://www.liberalpatriot.com/p/class-conflict-and-the-democratic

An upcoming book this year by the author will explain in further detail.

I am curious if similar divides will occur in the chaotic reality of TTL.
Logged
anbarret
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #337 on: January 19, 2024, 07:49:49 PM »

Praying that President Reagan can somehow turn this around! Would be sad to see him go after just one Term.
Don’t blame him. Blame Spiro Tongue

You have stated that the "five decades of fear & loathing" will be more of a controlled sense of chaos than the original TL. I wonder if TTL 2022 will look anything like the OTL 1973 movie Soylent Green!

So America in a extremely worse state?
No. America is closer to OTL, just more polarized, poorer, and subject to frequent international crises. Our democracy and the union itself survives, but I’d rather live in our America than the America I imagine at the end of the story.

Do you imagine a TTL version of the World Wide Web, social media, and the smartphone?
Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,095
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #338 on: January 19, 2024, 07:51:44 PM »

Praying that President Reagan can somehow turn this around! Would be sad to see him go after just one Term.
Don’t blame him. Blame Spiro Tongue

You have stated that the "five decades of fear & loathing" will be more of a controlled sense of chaos than the original TL. I wonder if TTL 2022 will look anything like the OTL 1973 movie Soylent Green!

So America in a extremely worse state?
No. America is closer to OTL, just more polarized, poorer, and subject to frequent international crises. Our democracy and the union itself survives, but I’d rather live in our America than the America I imagine at the end of the story.

Do you imagine a TTL version of the World Wide Web, social media, and the smartphone?

Yeah, that all exists more or less as OTL, though the Eastern Bloc has the Great Firewall of Europe and it's own "Intranet" that is basically no different than the "internet" of North Korea or Cuba of OTL.
Logged
anbarret
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #339 on: January 19, 2024, 07:54:22 PM »

Praying that President Reagan can somehow turn this around! Would be sad to see him go after just one Term.
Don’t blame him. Blame Spiro Tongue

You have stated that the "five decades of fear & loathing" will be more of a controlled sense of chaos than the original TL. I wonder if TTL 2022 will look anything like the OTL 1973 movie Soylent Green!

So America in a extremely worse state?
No. America is closer to OTL, just more polarized, poorer, and subject to frequent international crises. Our democracy and the union itself survives, but I’d rather live in our America than the America I imagine at the end of the story.

Do you imagine a TTL version of the World Wide Web, social media, and the smartphone?

Yeah, that all exists more or less as OTL, though the Eastern Bloc has the Great Firewall of Europe and it's own "Intranet" that is basically no different than the "internet" of North Korea or Cuba of OTL.

I wonder if it looks anything like this (including the Japanese boss in a world that still has "Red China"):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Km6bFBSVty4&pp=ygUaQmFjayB0byB0aGUgZnV0dXJlIElJIGNhbGw%3D
Logged
anbarret
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #340 on: January 19, 2024, 08:35:51 PM »

By the way, if you are looking for ideas on alternative paths for popular culture, here are a couple timelines that may help:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/AHippieInTheHouseOfMouse

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/PlayerTwoStart
Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,095
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #341 on: January 21, 2024, 11:02:26 PM »

Wednesday, October 1st, 1980: A series of sectarian riots between Greek and Turkish Cypriots along the buffer zone between the two enclaves leads to violence and conflict with UN troops assigned to keep the two communities apart. The division between the two halves of Cyprus now comes to resemble a low budget variation of the Berlin Wall.

Thursday, October 2nd, 1980: Beginning in October, Libyan troops airlifted to the Aouzou Strip (Northern Chad) earlier in the year operated in conjunction with Chadian leader Goukouni's forces to reoccupy Faya. The city was then used as an assembly point for tanks, artillery and armored vehicles that moved south against the capital of N'Djamena.

Public demonstrations around the world (mainly featuring anti-nuclear speakers) mark the first anniversary of the Kwangsi massacre.

In France this anniversary in particular reignites a strong anti-nuclear movement on the left which targets President Mitterrand’s support for nuclear energy and nuclear weapons ahead of the next French Presidential election. A former Education Minister named Leonel Jospin in the Defferre government, who broke with Defferre and Mitterrand over “the middle-road” economic policy, becomes the voice of a movement on the left that criticizes both the President and Prime Minister for their nuclear policy and their “sell-out” of more traditional left-wing state-oriented economic policies. Jospin eventually decides to enter the 1981 Presidential election as a dissident, left-wing “Independent Socialist” candidate.

Despite repeated pronouncements by the PRC government that it will put the five American servicemen it holds on trial, and repeated protests by the United States over this, nothing more is heard of them, which is taken as an ominous sign by U.S. officials. Both the Secretary of State and President Reagan strongly protest their detention. This message is reinforced on the campaign trail by Carey, Litton, and Vice President Bush.

Friday, October 3rd, 1980: A bomb explodes prematurely in a Paris synagogue, killing four and injuring another 50 people. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine takes credit for the attack as a manhunt for the bomber gets underway in the French capital city.

Sunday, October 5th, 1980: British Leyland launches its new Metro, a three-door entry-level hatchback which is designed as the eventual replacement for the Mini. It gives BL a long-awaited modern competitor for the likes of the Ford Fiesta and Vauxhall Chevette.

The Portuguese and Spanish Boundary Commission establishes a de-facto truce line along the Portuguese-Spanish border. The DPRP and the new Spanish government do not have diplomatic relations (Spain’s official Embassy to Portugal is in the Azores with the exile social democratic government of Portugal) but agree to continue talks through Swiss and French intermediaries.

Monday, October 6th, 1980: Israeli jets strike Egyptian military units based along the western side of the Sinai Canal. Israel claims the Egyptian units were preparing to attack the Israeli occupied Sinai. The Egyptians claim the troops were protecting the border and that Israelis air strike was a provocation. Everyone is mindful that this is the seventh anniversary of the start of the Yom Kippur war, and that an election in Israeli is little more than a month away. (Begin’s Likud Party has been slumping in the polls up to this point). Opposition Leader Shlomo Hillel (Labour-Alignment) calls the attack “a cheap political stunt by a desperate government devoid of ideas and initiative.”

Egypt’s President meanwhile declares that there “can be no peace on these terms” and orders the Egyptian military on alert. Though he stops short of ordering retaliatory attacks, President al-Gamasy begins reviewing his options for another military attack on Israel and begin reaching out to Libya and Iraq to pull in the support of the Qaddafi and Hussein regimes.

Wednesday, October 8th, 1980: Elections in West Germany sees Helmut Kohl’s CSU/FDP coalition government hold over a strong challenge from the Social Democratic Party in a hotly contested election. Helmut Kohl remains as Chancellor, albeit with a slightly reduced plurality, for the time being.

Friday, October 10th, 1980: The Supreme Court of India overturns the conviction of Sanjay Gandhi on various treason and corruption charges. The convictions are found to be “unsafe” due to evidence tampering and perjury by government witnesses. Sanjay is released. Many charges are thrown out against former Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, however a charge of treason is upheld against her for declaring the martial law emergency. Mrs. Gandhi is returned to prison to serve a twenty-year sentence.

Vasco Goncalves is forced to step down as Prime Minister of the Progressive Democratic Republic of Portugal. Octávio Floriano Rodrigues Pato, who had been Minister of the Interior in the Goncalves government succeeds him as the new Prime Minister. At the same time the Communist Party General Secretary Carlos Alfredo de Brito is named as the Foreign Minister. António Aires Rodrigues becomes the new Interior Minister.

The ICI company announced the closure of one of its plants at Kilroot, County Antrim with the resultant loss of 1,100 jobs.

The new government of Spain begins to look at a healing process for resolution of the Franco regime. Valle de los Caídos is cordoned off and closed to the public. Meanwhile an equally grandiose memorial to the Republican casualties of the Civil War (and those killed by the Falangist regime over forty years of rule) is commissioned.

Sunday, October 12th, 1980: Israeli Air Force jets bomb a training camp in Turkish Northern Cyprus where the Israeli’s allege that Palestinian terrorists are encamped and being prepared for infiltration into Israel.

Tuesday, October 14th, 1980: Former Senator George McGovern (D-SD) announces he will endorse the Democratic Party ticket for President, effectively ending his exile from the party after his 1972 Peace Party campaign and subsequent defeat in the 1974 Senate election. McGovern, who had previously endorsed Jesse Jackson for the Presidency, was convinced to endorse Governor Carey after meeting with the Democratic nominee in person while the latter was campaigning in Milwaukee. McGovern, who had previously expressed interest in the newly formed Ecology Party, had largely left the Peace Party behind after his presidential campaign. There is some speculation that Carey could appoint McGovern to the cabinet should he defeat President Reagan, a dramatic reversal of fortunes for the former Senator and presidential candidate.

Wednesday, October 15th, 1980: James Hoskins forces his way into WCPO's television studio in Cincinnati, holding nine employees hostage for several hours before releasing them and taking his own life.

Thursday, October 16th, 1980: The Soviet Union’s Politburo secretly approves a plan designed at giving the USSR and their satellite states near total control of the world’s oil supply. The plan calls for increased funding for oil exploration in aligned third world countries (particularly Equatorial Guinea) as well as forging stronger ties with the Arab world, while dramatically enhancing the USSR's own domestic oil exploration and exportation at the same time.

Friday, October 17th, 1980: President el-Gamasy of Egypt visits Moscow in order to sign a new Treaty of Friendship between Egypt and the USSR. Soon after President el-Gamasy’s visit Soviet technical and military advisors return to Egypt.

First 1980 Presidential Debate.
Saturday, October 18th, 1980.
Music Hall.
9:30 PM, Cleveland, OH.


[1]

RUTH HINERFELD: Good evening. I’m Ruth Hinerfeld of the League of Women Voters Education Fund. Americans are anxious as election day nears. But before going to the polls, voters want to understand the issues and know the candidates’ positions. Tonight, voters will have an opportunity to see and hear the major party candidates for the Presidency state their views on issues that affect us all. The League of Women Voters is proud to present this Presidential Debate. Our moderator is Howard K. Smith.

HOWARD K. SMITH: Thank you, Mrs. Hinerfeld. The League of Women Voters is pleased to welcome to the Cleveland, Ohio, Convention Center Music Hall. Tonight, we are joined by Governor Hugh Carey of New York and President Ronald Reagan of California. The candidates will debate questions on domestic, economic, foreign policy, and national security issues. The questions are going to be posed by a panel of distinguished journalists who are here with me. They are: Marvin Stone, the editor of U.S. News & World Report; Harry Ellis, national correspondent of the Christian Science Monitor; William Hilliard, assistant managing editor of the Portland Oregonian; Barbara Walters, correspondent, ABC News.

The ground rules for this, as agreed by you gentlemen, are these: each panelist down here will ask a question, the same question, to each of the two candidates. After the two candidates have answered, a panelist will ask follow-up questions to try to sharpen the answers. The candidates will then have an opportunity each to make a rebuttal. That will constitute the first half of the debate, and I will state the rules for the second half later on. Some other rules: The candidates are not permitted to bring prepared notes to the podium but are permitted to make notes during the debate. If the candidates exceed the allotted time agreed on, I will reluctantly but certainly interrupt. We ask the Convention Center audience here to abide by one ground rule. Please do not applaud or express approval or disapproval during the debate. Now, based on the toss of the coin, Governor Carey will receive the first question.

MARVIN STONE: Governor, as you’re well aware, the question of war and peace has emerged as a central issue in this campaign in the give and take of recent weeks. The President has been criticized for an aggressive posture against the Soviet Union in the Atlantic, the Arabian Gulf, and in Africa amongst other places. The President has also ordered and executed military actions against Red China, including the use of nuclear weapons. Specifically, what are the differences between the two of you on the uses of American military power?

HUGH CAREY: I want to begin, Howard, by thanking you, the League of Women Voters, and the good people of Cleveland for hosting this debate tonight. Now to answer your question, I believe very strongly that the President’s posturing towards the Soviet Union and Red China has been as reckless and outright dangerous as Spiro Agnew’s posturing was. Look around the world today – Southern Africa is engulfed in chaos, the Middle East is on the verge of yet another Arab-Israeli War, the Panama Canal has been destroyed, nuclear weapons have already been used, and the prospects of nuclear war seems as real as it as has been since the Cuban Missile Crisis. These were all events which could have been avoided, which could have been mediated and resolved with quiet, steady, strong diplomacy, but they weren’t. The Reagan administration’s shoot from the hip approach to foreign policy might make for a strong, compelling President in a good Hollywood movie, but it makes America weaker and more endangered in the real world.

HOWARD K. SMITH: Mr. President?

RONALD REAGAN: Well, I don’t know what the differences might be, because I don’t know what Mr. Carey’s policies are. I do know what he has said about mine. And I’m only here to tell you that I believe with all my heart that our first priority must be world peace, and that use of force is always and only a last resort, when everything else has failed, and then only with regard to our national security. The truth is, the attacks on the Panama Canal and the near Chinese invasion of Hong Kong last year were both events in which all options had been exhausted; America at that time needed strong and steady leadership. Americans on those dark days deserved a Commander-in-Chief who was ready and willing to take decisive action to guarantee the security of our great nation. Our policy now and then has been “peace through strength.” America has never gotten in a war because we were too strong. We can get into a war by letting events get out of hand.

HOWARD K. SMITH: Isn’t that how events played out in Panama, however? Mr. President, do you believe your administration adequately handled the leadup to the Panamanian annexation and eventual destruction of the Panama Canal?

RONALD REAGAN: Our administration did its best to preserve all diplomatic options in regard to Panama, and we were in the midst of planning another round of negotiations with the Torrijos regime about the status of the canal when they attacked us by surprise –

HOWARD K. SMITH: But you knew that the Panamanians were preparing for something? We now know that the Secretary of National Intelligence briefed you on weapons imports from Cuba and the Eastern Bloc nations –

RONALD REAGAN: We dismissed that buildup as bluster, as an attempt to gain extra leverage in the impending talks. Secretary of State Scranton at the time had already reached a preliminary agreement with Generals Torrijos and Noriega, which was why we were not adequately prepared on the ground for this stunning betrayal. As President I believe firmly that the “buck stops here.” And I certainly accept my responsibility for trusting Torrijos and his communist henchmen. But I learned from that mistake; when it was time to stare down the Mad Mao in China, I didn’t blink. I acted decisively to defang the regime of the younger Mao, and I believe that this decision averted the onset of a nuclear war between the rogue regime in Peking and the Soviet Union.

HOWARD K. SMITH: Governor Carey, do you care to comment?

HUGH CAREY: I agree with the President that he bears some responsibility for the attack on the Panama Canal, there is no question about that. And I also admire his willingness to admit that. But the fact of the matter remains that the Panamanians were quickly able to overrun several American military installations in a matter of hours, gaining control of the Canal and ultimately shutting it down. And that cannot be allowed to happen…so how did it happen, you’re probably wondering? It happened because of a combination of hubris on the part of this administration as well as an unfocused foreign policy. While we were busy playing tit for tat with the Soviets in Africa, the President was ignoring a growing crisis here in our own hemisphere. I believe that the next administration should reorient our foreign policy priorities to focus on the threat closer to home, rather than play these empire games in the third world.

HOWARD K. SMITH: I understand that you have a follow up question for President Reagan, Mr. Stone?

MARVIN STONE: President Reagan, assuming that the American people are ready to bear this cost, they nevertheless keep asking the following question: how do you reconcile huge increases in military outlays with your promise of substantial tax cuts and of balancing the budget, which in this fiscal year, the one that just ended, ran more than $60 billion in the red?

RONALD REAGAN: Mr. Stone, during my term as President, I have submitted and implemented an economic plan that I have worked out in concert with a number of fine economists in this country, all of whom approve it, and believe that over a five year projection, this plan can permit the extra spending for needed refurbishing of our defensive posture, that it can provide for a balanced budget by 1981 if not earlier, and that we can afford – along with the cuts that I have proposed in government spending – we can afford the tax cuts I have proposed. I’m only reducing the amount of the increase. In other words, what I’m talking about is not putting government back to getting less money than government’s been getting, but simply cutting the increase in in spending.

Monday, October 20th, 1980: Yuri Andropov releases the following statement to his Politburo colleagues about the situation in Poland. Remarkably it leaks into the western press.

Quote from: Yuri Andropov
"We can't risk such a step. We do not intend to introduce troops into Poland. That is the proper position, and we must adhere as long as Polish authorities can stabilize the situation. I don't know how things will turn out in Poland, but even if Poland falls under the control of counter-revolutionaries, that's the way it may have to be. If the capitalist countries pounce on the Soviet Union, and you know they have already reached agreement on a variety of economic and political sanctions, that will be very burdensome for us. We must be concerned above all with our own country and about the strengthening of the Soviet Union. That is our main line.... As concerns the lines of communication between the Soviet Union and the GDR that run through Poland, we of course must do something to ensure that they are safeguarded and these, more than whichever political faction runs the Polish state at a particular moment, must remain our primary concern."

Allied forces on Cyprus, primarily led by British troops, lead a series of raids into Turkish occupied Northern Cyprus. The mission of this operation, named Operation Pinpoint, is to root out Palestinian Jihad Organization camps that have popped up on the island.

Wednesday, October 22nd, 1980: The Iranian government declares martial law in an effort to quell protests by students who are backed by religious fundamentalist groups. The students are calling for stricter Islamic teaching in the universities along with an observance of Sharia law. They also wanted the secular heads of the universities replaced with clerics. The government of Prime Minister Azhari regards this as a political challenge to the government by the clerical leadership and cracks down by arresting a number of student leaders and their prominent clerical supporters. Among those arrested are the Imam Ali Khamenei and Imam Ahmad Khomeini (son of the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini).

Thursday, October 23rd, 1980: Provincial elections in Quebec see the separatist government of Premier Levesque hold on to power, despite losing a handful of seats to the Liberal Party. Despite the Liberals making minor gains on a federalist platform, they are unable to offset the Parti Quebecois majority in the National Assembly of Quebec. As a result, Levesque claims a mandate in moving forward with the separation of Quebec from Canada.

More coming this week.
Logged
anbarret
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #342 on: January 22, 2024, 11:14:52 AM »

The Gipper certainly seems to be the OTL 1980 Jimmy Carter position...only in the much more chaotic world of the Gumboverse.

Nice image by the way of a hypothetical Reagan-Carey debate.
Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,095
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #343 on: January 23, 2024, 08:52:32 AM »

And I've been banned, for literally no apparent reason, from AH.com again. Even though sock puppets are allowed, I was still banned for being a puppet Tongue

Folks, don't take the moderators here for granted - they truly are pretty reasonable, fair, and easy going. Thanks Virginia for letting me return so I can write this. I enjoy this audience way more than the nitpickers of AH.com anyway.
Logged
Prez_zf
Rookie
**
Posts: 88
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #344 on: January 23, 2024, 11:43:12 AM »

And I've been banned, for literally no apparent reason, from AH.com again. Even though sock puppets are allowed, I was still banned for being a puppet Tongue

Folks, don't take the moderators here for granted - they truly are pretty reasonable, fair, and easy going. Thanks Virginia for letting me return so I can write this. I enjoy this audience way more than the nitpickers of AH.com anyway.
Sock puppets are allowed? I thought they were banned as well.
Logged
anbarret
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #345 on: January 25, 2024, 02:48:00 PM »

I wonder what Nicholas Taleb would think of this reality?:

https://slate.com/technology/2012/12/antifragile-book-interview-nassim-nicholas-taleb-on-how-chaos-and-disaster-can-build-antifragile-systems.html

I wonder where his TTL self would be?
Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,095
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #346 on: February 01, 2024, 09:04:49 PM »

Second 1980 Presidential Debate.
Friday, October 24th, 1980.
Baltimore Convention Center.
9:00 PM, Baltimore, MD.


BARBARA WALTERS: Governor Carey, you have outlined in your party’s platform an ambitious domestic agenda, some say the biggest government undertaking in alleviating poverty since the New Deal. Will you pursue full employment legislation as President, and what other efforts will you make to give economically embattled Americans a lift up?

HUGH CAREY: The Democratic Party has traditionally stood up for the working men and women in this country, and that won't change under a Carey administration. It is clear from the mess that we're in that Republican trickle down economics only have resulted in the few having more at the expense of the many. In other words, the money just doesn't trickle down. Take a look at the Reagan tax cuts, which primarily benefited the wealthy and affluent. The top 1% of American earners who benefited the most did not reinvest that money. It just sits in banks. The fact of the matter is that President Reagan's economic experiments failed to produce any significant growth, or seriously erode unemployment, or even bring down inflation. It made the rich richer, and the poor poorer. And that was the point.

BARBARA WALTER: President Reagan?

RONALD REAGAN: Well, Governor Carey's answer to every problem is more government, more spending, and more taxes. We have tried those Keynesian theories for forty years now, and we know they don't work. Government cannot create jobs. That is the entrepreneurs role. And we can't spend our way out of this economic stagnation without inflating our currency to Weimer levels. Governor Carey calls my administration's policies "experiments." There is nothing radical about good governance. There is nothing radical about a bureaucracy that serves the people rather than itself. There is nothing radical about letting businessmen do what they do best - create jobs and generate prosperity. 

Saturday, October 25th, 1980: Vice President Bush and Senator Litton debate one another in Tallahassee, Florida on the campus of Florida State University. The Vice Presidential debate draws considerably less viewership than the presidential debates, and is widely viewed as being won by Senator Litton, who came across as more affable as compared to the stiff Vice President.

Sunday, October 26th, 1980: On NBC’s Meet the Press, Governor Carey expands upon his proposed economic policy agenda. Conservatives pounce on the Governor in the aftermath of the interview, arguing that his policies would dramatically expand the national debt and stall America’s recovery from the Second Great Depression.

Monday, October 27th, 1980: President Reagan warns that the only way out of the Second Great Depression involves “either a Republican peace or a Democrat war.” Reagan’s allusion to the Second World War being launched by the Roosevelt administration as a means to end the Great Depression does not sit well, and the comment is criticized as being inappropriate by former President James Gavin.

Tuesday, October 28th, 1980: Egyptian President el-Gamasy cracks down on the Ikhwan (The Muslim Brotherhood) which he accuses of plotting to stage a coup against the military regime. Evidence tends to support his claim.

Thursday, October 30th, 1980: El Salvador and Honduras sign a peace treaty to put the border dispute fought over in 1969's Football War before the International Court of Justice.

Third 1980 Presidential Debate.
Friday, October 31st, 1980.
West Virginia University.
9:00 PM, Morgantown, WV.


WALTER CRONKITE: And we now go to closing statements from the two candidates. President Reagan will go first.

RONALD REAGAN: Yes, I would like to add my words of thanks, too, to the ladies of the League of Women Voters for making these debates possible. Tonight, the choice is stark. We can return to the path of regulation and red tape, of bureaucratic malaise, and of inflationary stagnation. Or we can continue down the path to prosperity. We can return to the foreign policy weakness of detente. Or we can continue to manifest peace by exercising strength. America, now more than ever, is the last beacon of hope in the world – a point of light in the darkness, the serene eye at the center of a hurricane, the last land of liberty. Our mission is to preserve this freedom today and secure it for tomorrow. When you go to the polls this Tuesday, bear in mind the enormous cost that has been spent in blood and treasure to ensure that you have the right to participate in this great democratic exercise. And ask yourself: was it worth it?

WALTER CRONKITE: Governor Carey?

HUGH CAREY: My friends and fellow Americans, the question you have to answer when you go to the ballot booth this Tuesday is simple: am I better off than I was twelve years ago? Have the Republican administrations of Nixon, Agnew, Gavin, and Reagan done enough to alleviate the burden faced by you, the hardworking middle American? Is it easier for you to go and buy things in the stores than it was ten years ago? Is there more or less unemployment in the country than there was twelve years ago? Is America as respected throughout the world as it was? Do you feel that our security is as safe, that we’re as strong as we were twelve years ago? And if you answer all of those questions yes, than I think your choice is very obvious as to whom you will vote for.

Sunday, November 2nd, 1980: Israeli jets bomb the Iraqi nuclear power reactors near Al Tammuz in Iraq (known as the Tammuz Complex) in Operation Opera. Iraq had approached the French for help in building a reactor, but the Socialist government of Francois Mitterrand had turned them down. Subsequently a consortium of Swiss and West German companies became involved. The project accelerated after Helmut Kohl replaced Helmut Schmidt as West German Chancellor in 1976, and pursued an export-oriented liberal economic policy. The project thus received a measure of West German government sanction (although the West Germans operated through Swiss and Austrian fronts to maintain their distance).

The revelation of West German involvement in the project, despite international sanctions and repeated complaints by successive Israeli governments, creates a scandal in the West German government. What makes this more problematic is that West German industry and officials appear to have been violating UN sanctions against trade with Iraq that the West German government had supported in the UN.

The Israeli jets destroy the reactor complex. But the timing of the raid raises questions due to coming elections in both Israel and the United States.

Logged
anbarret
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #347 on: February 01, 2024, 10:16:09 PM »

Great to see you back.

Yep, in this reality it has indeed been some time since a Democrat occupied the White House. The last time Republican Presidents had been in charge for 12 years was 1932.
Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,095
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #348 on: February 02, 2024, 03:32:47 PM »

Tuesday, November 4th, 1980: Election Day in America!

Governor Hugh Carey (D-NY)/Senator Jerry Litton (D-MO): 352 Electoral Votes, 52.1% of the popular vote.
President Ronald Reagan (R-CA)/Vice President George Bush (R-TX): 186 Electoral Votes, 45.4% of the popular vote.
Former Congressman Ron Paul (L-TX)/Attorney Ed Clark (L-CA): 1.1% of the popular vote.
Professor Barry Commoner (E-NY)/Attorney Ralph Nader (E-CT): 0.9% of the popular vote.
Activist LaDonna Harris (P-OK)/Activist Melvin Boozer (S-DC): 0.3% of the popular vote.
Former Senator Orval Faubus (AIP-AR)/Former Congressman John Rarick (AIP-LA): 0.1% of the popular vote.
Other (Socialist Workers, Communist, Prohibition): 0.1% of the popular vote.

1980 Alabama Senate Election
(D) Albert Brewer: 53.6%
(R) Jeremiah Denton: 46.4%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Alaska Senate Election
(D) Mike Gravel: 54.2%
(R) Ted Stevens: 39.8%
(L) Andre Marrou: 6.0%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Arizona Senate Election
(D) William Schulz: 48.9%
(R) Barry Goldwater: 48.1%
(L) Fred Esser: 1.8%
(SWP) Josefina Otero: 1.2%
(Democratic gain)

1980 Arkansas Senate Election
(D) Dale Bumpers: 63.1%
(R) William Clark: 36.6%
(I) Walter McClarty: 0.3%
(Democratic hold)

1980 California Senate Election
(D) Alan Cranston: 59.6%
(R) Paul Gann: 36.2%
(L) David Bergland: 3.4%
(P&F) David Wald: 0.6%
(AIP) James Griffin: 0.2%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Colorado Senate Election
(D) Gary Hart: 55.2%
(R) Mary Buchanan: 42.1%
(AIP) Henry Olshaw: 2.7%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Connecticut Senate Election
(D) Chris Dodd: 62.5%
(R) Richard Bozzuto: 37.0%
(L) Jerry Brennan: 0.4%
(AIP) Andrew Zemel: 0.1%   
(Democratic hold)

1980 Florida Senate Election
(D) Bill Gunter: 57.3%
(R) Ander Crenshaw: 42.7%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Georgia Senate Election
(D) James Carter: 55.6%
(R) Mack Mattingly: 44.4%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Hawaii Senate Election
(D) Daniel Inouye: 85.5%
(R) Cooper Brown: 14.5%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Idaho Senate Election
(D) Frank Church: 47.9%
(R) Steve Symms: 43.3%
(L) Larry Fullmer: 8.8%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Illinois Senate Election
(D) Adlai Stevenson III: 58.0%
(R) Dave O’Neal: 40.5%
(L) Bruce Green: 0.5%
(E) Sidney Lens: 0.5%
(SWP) Burton Artz: 0.5%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Indiana Senate Election
(D) Birch Bayh: 56.4%
(R) Marilyn Quayle: 43.6%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Iowa Senate Election
(D) John Culver: 53.6%
(R) Chuck Grassley: 45.3%
(I) Garry De Young: 0.7%
(L) Robert Hengerer: 0.4%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Kansas Senate Election
(R) Nancy Landon: 48.1%
(D) William Roy: 46.7%
(I) John Simpson: 5.2%
(Republican gain)

1980 Kentucky Senate Election
(D) Wendall Ford: 65.0%
(R) Mary L. Foust: 35.0%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Louisiana Senate Election
(D) Russell Long: 57.0%
(D) Woody Jenkins: 43.0%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Maryland Senate Election
(D) Barbara Mikulski: 75.0%
(R) Roscoe Bartlett:  25.0%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Missouri Senate Election
(D) Thomas Eagleton: 56.7%
(R) Gene McNary: 40.0%
(SWP) Martha Pettis: 3.3%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Nevada Senate Election
(D) Harry Reid: 52.8%
(R) Oran Gragson: 42.1%
(L) Allen Hacker: 5.1%
(Democratic hold)

1980 New Hampshire Senate Election
(D) John Durkin: 55.0%
(R) Warren Rudman: 45.0%
(Democratic hold)

1980 New York Senate Election
(D) Ramsey Clark: 54.8%
(R) Al D’Amato: 43.4%
(L) Richard Savadel: 1.1%
(SWP) Vince Nieto: 0.7%
(Democratic hold)

1980 North Carolina Senate Election
(D) Robert Morgan: 52.8%
(R) John East: 46.6%
(L) Rick Pasotto: 0.4%
(SWP) Rebecca Finch: 0.2%
(Democratic hold)

1980 North Dakota Senate Election
(D) William Guy: 50.1%
(R) Mark Andrews: 49.9%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Ohio Senate Election
(D) John Glenn: 71.7%
(R) Jim Betts: 25.3%
(I) John Powers: 1.9%
(I) Rick Nagin: 1.1%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Oklahoma Senate Election
(D) Ed Edmondson: 49.2%
(R) Don Nickles: 49.0%
(L) Robert Murphy: 1.8%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Oregon Senate Election
(D) Betty Roberts: 52.5%
(R) Rosalie Huss: 33.3%
(L) Tonie Nathan: 10.2%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Pennsylvania Senate Election
(D) Peter Flaherty: 51.4%
(R) Richard Schweiker: 46.8%
(SWP) Linda Mohrbacher: 0.8%
(L) David Walter: 0.6%
(E) Lee Frissell: 0.4%
(Democratic gain)

1980 South Carolina Senate Election
(D) Ernest Hollings: 79.2%
(R) Marshall Mays: 19.9%
(E) William Kreml: 0.9%
(Democratic hold)

1980 South Dakota Senate Election
(R) Joe Foss: 76.7%
(D) Larry Schumaker: 22.2%
(I) Wayne Peterson: 1.1%
(Republican hold)

1980 Utah Senate Election
(R) Jake Garn: 74.1%
(D) Dan Berman: 24.0%
(AIP) Bruce Bangerter: 1.9%
(Republican hold)

1980 Vermont Senate Election
(D) Patrick Leahy: 52.6%
(R) Stewart Ledbetter: 44.5%
(LU) Earl Gardiner: 2.9%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Washington Senate Election
(D) Warren Magnuson: 55.0%
(R) Slade Gorton: 45.0%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Wisconsin Senate Election
(D) Gaylord Nelson: 53.6%
(R) Terry Kohler: 45.2%
(C) James Wickstrom: 0.5%
(L) Bervin Larson: 0.4%
(SWP) Susan Hagen: 0.3%
(Democratic hold)


1980 Senate Elections.
Democratic (Robert Byrd): 63 seats (+1)
Republican (Howard Baker): 34 seats (-1)
Independent: 3 seats (N/A) (-)

Senate Leadership
President Pro-Tempore: Warren Magnuson (D-WA)
Senate Majority Leader: Robert Byrd (D-WV)
Senate Minority Leader: Howard Baker (R-TN)
Senate Majority Whip: Alan Cranston (D-CA)
Senate Minority Whip: John Chafee (R-RI)

Senate as of January 3rd, 1981:
Alabama: Albert Brewer (D), James D. Martin (R)
Alaska: Mike Gravel (D), Clark Gruening (D)
Arizona: John Conlan (R), William Shulz (D)
Arkansas: Dale Bumpers (D), Bill Clinton (D)
California: Alan Cranston (D), Jerry Brown (D)
Colorado: Floyd Haskell (D), Gary Hart (D)
Connecticut: Gloria Schaeffer (D), Chris Dodd (D)
Delaware: William Roth (R), Joe Biden (D)
Florida: Bill Gunter (D), John Grady (R)
Georgia: Sam Nunn (D), Jimmy Carter (D)
Hawaii: Daniel Inouye (D), Patsy Mink (D)
Idaho: Frank Church (D), James McClure (R)
Illinois: Adlai Stevenson III (D), Marty Russo (D)
Indiana: Birch Bayh (D), Richard Lugar (R)
Iowa: John Culver (D), Berkley Bedell (D)
Kansas: Martha Keys (D), Nancy Landon (R)
Kentucky: Wendell Ford (D), John Breckenridge (D)
Louisiana: Russell Long (D), J. Bennett Johnson (D)
Maine: Margaret Chase Smith (R), Ed Muskie (D)
Maryland: Barbara Mikulski (D), Paul Sarbanes (D)
Massachusetts: John Kerry (D), Paul Kirk (D)
Michigan: Marvin Esche (R), Carl Levin (D)
Minnesota: Walter Mondale (D), Donald Fraser (D)
Mississippi: John Bell Williams (I), Charles Evers (I)
Missouri: Thomas Eagleton (D), Vacant
Montana: Theodore Schwinden (D), Stanley Burger (R)
Nebraska: John McCollister (R), James Exxon (D)
Nevada: Howard Cannon (D), Harry Reid (D)
New Hampshire: Thomas McIntyre (D), John Durkin (D)
New Jersey: David Norcross (R), Charles Sandman (R)
New Mexico: Harrison Schmidt (R), Tony Anaya (D)
New York: James Buckley (R), Ramsey Clark (D)
North Carolina: Jesse Helms (R), Robert Morgan (D)
North Dakota: William Guy (D), Robert Stroup (R)
Ohio: Robert Taft Jr. (R), John Glenn (D)
Oklahoma: Ed Edmondson (D), Edward Gaylord (R)
Oregon: Mark Hatfield (R), Betty Roberts (D)
Pennsylvania: William Green III (D), Peter Flaherty (D)
Rhode Island: John Chafee (R), Barbara Leonard (R)
South Carolina: Strom Thurmond (R), Ernest Hollings (D)
South Dakota: Joe Foss (R), Larry Pressler (R)
Tennessee: Howard Baker (R), William Brock (R)
Texas: Lloyd Bentsen (D), Bob Krueger (D)
Utah: Jake Garn (R), Orrin Hatch (R)
Vermont: Pat Leahy (D), Thomas Salmon (D)
Virginia: Harry Byrd Jr. (I), John McCain (R)
Washington: Warren Magnusson (D), Henry Jackson (D)
West Virginia: Robert Byrd (D), Arch Moore (R)
Wisconsin: William Proxmire (D), Gaylord Nelson (D)
Wyoming: Malcolm Wallop (R), Alan Simpson (R)

1978 House of Representatives Elections.
Democratic (John McFall): 265 seats (+15)
Republican (Trent Lott): 170 seats (-15)

Speaker of the House: John Brademas (D-IN)
House Majority Leader: Thomas Foley (D-WA)
House Minority Leader: Trent Lott (R-MS)
House Majority Whip: Gillis Long (D-LA)
House Minority Whip: Del Latta (R-OH)

1980 Arkansas Gubernatorial Election
(D) David Pryor: 53.0%
(R) Frank White: 47.0%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Delaware Gubernatorial Election
(D) Thomas Carper: 51.2%
(R) Pete DuPont: 45.6%
(L) Lawrence Levy: 3.2%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Indiana Gubernatorial Election
(D) Andrew Jacobs: 52.4%
(R) Robert Orr: 46.6%
(AIP) Cletist Artist: 1.0%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Missouri Gubernatorial Election
(D) Joseph Teasdale: 54.5%
(R) Kit Bond: 44.3%
(SWP) Helen Savio: 1.2%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Montana Gubernatorial Election
(D) Max Baucus: 51.0%
(R) Robert Woodhal: 49.0%
(Democratic gain)

1980 New Hampshire Gubernatorial Election
(D) Hugh Gallen: 60.0%
(R) Meldrim Thomson: 38.0%
(L) James Pinnaird: 2.0%
(Democratic hold)

1980 North Carolina Gubernatorial Election
(D) Rufus Edminstin: 50.1%
(R) Beverly Lake: 44.0%
(L) Robert Emory: 4.5%
(SWP) Douglas Cooper: 1.4%
(Democratic hold)

1980 North Dakota Gubernatorial Election
(D) Arthur Link: 49.7%
(R) Allen Olson: 30.2%
(L) Ed Crane: 20.1%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Rhode Island Gubernatorial Election
(D) Giovanni Folcarelli: 79.5%
(R) Buddy Cianci: 20.5%
(Democratic hold)

1980 Utah Gubernatorial Election
(R) Vernon Romney: 52.0%
(D) Clyde Miller: 44.2%
(AIP) Lawrence Topham: 3.8%
(Republican hold)

1980 Vermont Gubernatorial Election
(D) Timothy O’Connor: 40.5%
(R) Richard Snelling: 36.7%
(LU) Bernie Sanders: 22.8%
(Democratic gain)

1980 Washington Gubernatorial Election
(D) Dixie Lee Ray: 50.1%
(R) John Spellman: 49.9%
(Democratic hold)

1980 West Virginia Gubernatorial Election
(D) Jay Rockefeller: 54.2%
(R) Cecil Underwood: 44.7%
(E) Hazel Dickens: 0.7%
(L) Jack Kelley: 0.4%
(Democratic gain)


Up next: election night speeches, November-December 1980.
Logged
anbarret
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #349 on: February 02, 2024, 06:10:03 PM »

Welcome to the 1980s!:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b1DhJdGNuu8&pp=ygUGeGFuYWR1
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.118 seconds with 10 queries.